JoeLassister Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Get your shit together quick (sign Galchenyuk and Beaulieu) and then Fire at other RFA's if you want. If you want to play this game, there is a way to play it safe : by signing your key players before other teams do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Yes I agree CC but then why have it at all. If everyone agrees not to do it, then get rid of it. But at some point wouldn't the NHLPA sue screaming collusion amongst the teams to prevent player movement and keep salaries low? I am actually surprised this hasn't come up. Anyways if there is going to a year where the fur will fly, this year looks to be the one. It is going to be interesting to see someone fires that first shot. You know how you wouldn't bang your bestfriend's ex-girlfriend? Same thing as giving an offer sheet to an RFA. Unwritten code, you just don't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Get your shit together quick (sign Galchenyuk and Beaulieu) and then Fire at other RFA's if you want. If you want to play this game, there is a way to play it safe : by signing your key players before other teams do. Sure, but that creates a dynamic whereby RFAs have a lot of leverage and teams end up overpaying. That's not good for teams, or their fans, either. 'Why have it at all?' Obviously, the clause was inserted in the CBA as a concession to the NHLPA. Which is presumably the only reason it hasn't been yanked. The NHL has no need to expend negotiating capital on getting rid of it, since it's mostly ineffectual; while the NHLPA has no incentive to want it removed either, since in principle it's something which, if acted upon, could have an inflationary effect on player salaries and give RFAs more leverage. I really don't get why people are so offended that GMs follow an unwritten rule not to do this. What are you guys, player agents or something? You WANT to see the Galchenyuks of the world be the subject of predatory offers from other teams? The whole attitude beats the heck out of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 What we forget is that in 2010, this happened to Chicago. Hjalmarsson got an offer sheet from the Sharks that was going to overpay him. Chicago kept him and instead let Niemi walk, whom the Sharks signed quick. It turned out Niemi was a good goalie but replaceable by Crawford while Hjalmarsson became a very effective #3 D-Man. It allowed the Blackhawks to make some manuever deals and let other guys go and because they were smart in their drafting, filled the holes quite well. If someone tries to burn them with a Saad offer sheet, they have options. And in five years, they'll have cap space to burn whomever hit them with an offer sheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Not that I WANT to see offer sheet being thrown around, I'm just looking at RW situation for our Habs and don't see how we're gonna notch a legit top 10 RW in the league if it is not via RFA's. No UFA of that caliber. No one in the system until Sherback matures (probably not into a bonified 1st line RW). Competitive team filled with players (Price, Subban, etc) that will not allow this team to finish in the bottom 5 of the league for a while. The trade baits : Eller, Fucale, Plekanec, Emelin, Parenteau, late 1st, maybe Tinordi. Will it notch a Tarasenko ? I bet not. So Offer Sheet is our best option. Unless we're ready to trade Galchenyuk or Gallagher... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 You know how you wouldn't bang your bestfriend's ex-girlfriend? Same thing as giving an offer sheet to an RFA. Unwritten code you, you just don't do it. Hmmm interesting analogy. With out the millions of dollars involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Sure, but that creates a dynamic whereby RFAs have a lot of leverage and teams end up overpaying. That's not good for teams, or their fans, either. 'Why have it at all?' Obviously, the clause was inserted in the CBA as a concession to the NHLPA. Which is presumably the only reason it hasn't been yanked. The NHL has no need to expend negotiating capital on getting rid of it, since it's mostly ineffectual; while the NHLPA has no incentive to want it removed either, since in principle it's something which, if acted upon, could have an inflationary effect on player salaries and give RFAs more leverage. I really don't get why people are so offended that GMs follow an unwritten rule not to do this. What are you guys, player agents or something? You WANT to see the Galchenyuks of the world be the subject of predatory offers from other teams? The whole attitude beats the heck out of me. Hockey is a very competitive game on the ice, and should be off the ice. We want our team to be the best and expect our GM to do whatever he has to do to make it the best. If that means stepping on someone's toes so be it. I actually have not seen Anaheim try to attack Edmonton over the famous Lowe offer sheet. It is in the rule book to be used. There have been offer sheets thrown at players before, and the world didn't end. They matched or they didn't. All I am saying is this year there is a lot of incentive for GM's to use piece of their arsenal, and it will be interesting who does and who doesn't. I think the idea that their will be all out war if you do it is greatly exaggerated. The team doesn't match, they get a bunch of picks. If they do they have to pay a salary they are not liking but they agreed to it. I see no catastrophe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I think it's a pretty lousy analogy myself. Especially when of the loudest critics of offer sheets like Burke, threatens a team that he will sign the player (kessel), if they can't agree on a deal. Hmmm interesting analogy. With out the millions of dollars involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I think it's a pretty lousy analogy myself. Especially when of the loudest critics of offer sheets like Burke, threatens a team that he will sign the player (kessel), if they can't agree on a deal. What does that have to do with anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 What does that have to do with anythingI think it's a lousy analogy.If the analogy works, are you going to threaten your buddy to date his ex anyways if he objects? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Hockey is a very competitive game on the ice, and should be off the ice. We want our team to be the best and expect our GM to do whatever he has to do to make it the best. If that means stepping on someone's toes so be it. I actually have not seen Anaheim try to attack Edmonton over the famous Lowe offer sheet. It is in the rule book to be used. There have been offer sheets thrown at players before, and the world didn't end. They matched or they didn't. All I am saying is this year there is a lot of incentive for GM's to use piece of their arsenal, and it will be interesting who does and who doesn't. I think the idea that their will be all out war if you do it is greatly exaggerated. The team doesn't match, they get a bunch of picks. If they do they have to pay a salary they are not liking but they agreed to it. I see no catastrophe. See, to me, your view of 'our GM doing his best' translates into 'our GM losing Alex Galchenyuk [or equivalent] to some predatory organization and having to be satisfied with some picks in return;' or else, 'our GM having to massively overpay bums like Lars Eller long-term because he thought they'd develop into something more than they are and didn't want to lose them to other idiot GMs.' I can really do without a world in which RFA contracts become crippling cap millstones to the same degree that UFA contracts do. And hell, these offer sheets become a system that actually REWARDS organizations for not drafting and developing properly; they can just leech off other, competent organizations. I think you are endorsing the idea of 'exciting' summer GM wars at the expense of teams being able to develop their talent and manage the cap in a proper fashion. Non merci. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I think it's a lousy analogy. If the analogy works, are you going to threaten your buddy to date his ex anyways if he objects? Your not getting the point here my friend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I think it's a lousy analogy. If the analogy works, are you going to threaten your buddy to date his ex anyways if he objects? agree not good comparison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 What we forget is that in 2010, this happened to Chicago. Hjalmarsson got an offer sheet from the Sharks that was going to overpay him. Chicago kept him and instead let Niemi walk, whom the Sharks signed quick. It turned out Niemi was a good goalie but replaceable by Crawford while Hjalmarsson became a very effective #3 D-Man. It allowed the Blackhawks to make some manuever deals and let other guys go and because they were smart in their drafting, filled the holes quite well. If someone tries to burn them with a Saad offer sheet, they have options. And in five years, they'll have cap space to burn whomever hit them with an offer sheet. Is strictly business not personal and Bowman unlikley to hold grudge nor be spitful/petty. Might not invite for X-mas dinner but so what, they are competing vs each other, so will ruffle feathers once in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Is strictly business not personal and Bowman unlikley to hold grudge nor be spitful/petty. Might not invite for X-mas dinner but so what, they are competing vs each other, so will ruffle feathers once in a while. Yeah, tearing a player from a g.m, nothing personal about that at all. Your tagged as greasy g.m after a move like that. Why do you think you rarely see it happen. It causes a rippled effect, you lose respect amoung your peers (per say). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 See, to me, your view of 'our GM doing his best' translates into 'our GM losing Alex Galchenyuk [or equivalent] to some predatory organization and having to be satisfied with some picks in return;' or else, 'our GM having to massively overpay bums like Lars Eller long-term because he thought they'd develop into something more than they are and didn't want to lose them to other idiot GMs.' I can really do without a world in which RFA contracts become crippling cap millstones to the same degree that UFA contracts do. And hell, these offer sheets become a system that actually REWARDS organizations for not drafting and developing properly; they can just leech off other, competent organizations. I think you are endorsing the idea of 'exciting' summer GM wars at the expense of teams being able to develop their talent and manage the cap in a proper fashion. Non merci. We don't often disagree CC but you have forced me into defending this line. I honestly don't think a well run club in the NHL can be leached off of their young talent. If you look at the teams in trouble with the cap they all made a move to win the cup at all costs, (ok trawna is the exception, they are just stupid) with that comes an expense and that is where the cap comes in. Boston Chicago LA are all in cap trouble cause they went for it. Some more successful than others. They put their young talent at risk when they signed guys to huge contracts. They can't have it both ways, if you take the risk sometimes you have to pay the piper. Some of them may pay it this year. I really don't think it is going to happen, all I said was it could be an interesting off season, if some them got cut throat. Not very likely to happen in this league, more than likely business as usual. Great discussion though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 With both the CBA and Rumour threads having lots of RFA offer sheet talks, I've split those posts into its own thread. That way, we can keep the rumour thread for actual rumours (and with the season soon to end, there should be some before too long). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 if we were to go the offer sheet route, id only want to do it if its for someone like tarasenko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Of course some team should take a run at Tarasenko, but specific RFA is irrelevant. Other than pissing off a GM for not locking up his skilled youngsters before free agency. Don't you think he is the dummy to let that happen in first place? Maybe why Beaulieu got locked up and likely Galchenyuk will be before July 1st. So if you leave a Saad, Tarasenko hanging out there, your own fault (poor management) is the way I see it. Then is fair game to offer the poor kid some good $$ and not have to accept whatever own team offers? Don't get pissed, is just a business decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 You know how you wouldn't bang your bestfriend's ex-girlfriend? Same thing as giving an offer sheet to an RFA. Unwritten code, you just don't do it. and yet, people do it lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Of course some team should take a run at Tarasenko, but specific RFA is irrelevant. Other than pissing off a GM for not locking up his skilled youngsters before free agency. Don't you think he is the dummy to let that happen in first place? Maybe why Beaulieu got locked up and likely Galchenyuk will be before July 1st. So if you leave a Saad, Tarasenko hanging out there, your own fault (poor management) is the way I see it. Then is fair game to offer the poor kid some good $$ and not have to accept whatever own team offers? Don't get pissed, is just a business decision. frankly, who gives a bleep if some GM gets pissed. All you should care about as a GM is improving your team - code be damned. id much rather give up the picks to sign Tarasanko foe 7 years, than be stuck with Kessel for an extra 4 or 5 years at $8m - regardless of what it costs to get Kessel. i don't see Kessel being a 35 goal scorer for more than 3 year - 4 max. Unlike Hossa, once phil the thrill stop scoring, he'll be as useless as a one legged goalie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I don't see it as being about 'pissing off' some other GM - more about undermining a culture that has prevented some painful bidding wars and crippling contracts. People used to (and still do) fume at 'stupid' GMs throwing stupid money and term at UFAs. Yet here they have a nicely-functioning unwritten code preventing them from committing similar follies with RFAs, and some of us are anxious to get rid of that? Like I say, doesn't make sense to me, but hey, that's just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I don't see it as being about 'pissing off' some other GM - more about undermining a culture that has prevented some painful bidding wars and crippling contracts. People used to (and still do) fume at 'stupid' GMs throwing stupid money and term at UFAs. Yet here they have a nicely-functioning unwritten code preventing them from committing similar follies with RFAs, and some of us are anxious to get rid of that? Like I say, doesn't make sense to me, but hey, that's just my opinion. If some team offers even $11M for a guy like Tarasenko i'd say damn, why didn't the habs do that. I think that is a much better move than throwing away "stupid" money - even though its "only" $5.5M at a guy like Clarkson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 If some team offers even $11M for a guy like Tarasenko i'd say damn, why didn't the habs do that. I think that is a much better move than throwing away "stupid" money - even though its "only" $5.5M at a guy like Clarkson. Agreed, but I'm not taking about this or that specific offer sheet scenario. I'm trying to defend the principle that, as a rule, GMs don't extend offer sheets to other teams' RFAs. I favour the 'gentleman's agreement' and am in no hurry to see it getting undercut. Once the dam bursts, of course, we will indeed start to see 'stupid' offers being extended to RFAs, because that's what GMs do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 They brought in salary cap, limit on contract terms, % of cap they can pay one player and buy-outs simply to help protect the GMs from themselves? IF they have salary room and rich owner, GMs will spend to the max, you know that. I don't think having or not having offer sheets for RFAs will matter one bit to smarten up all GMs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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