2015-16 NHL Season Thread

[KoRP]

I can't agree to the idea that all the veterans of the NHL, throughout all the decades, are knuckle draggers and racists, anymore than I can agree with the so called perception of the Sedins being soft above all their attributes as hockey players...

There have been some fine gentlemen played this game, some great human beings who had to live within that "world of the code", and deal with it, all the while being exceptional men of their generation.

FFS this isn't Facebook is it? The misguided outrage is worse than the targeted "offender".

Sad that today's society forgets what brought us here, our journey from the trees through dark ages of violence and debauchery, so we could ascend to what great human beings we "think" or convey we are now.

Hypocrites.

[habs rule]

I can't agree to the idea that all the veterans of the NHL, throughout all the decades, are knuckle draggers and racists, anymore than I can agree with the so called perception of the Sedins being soft above all their attributes as hockey players...

There have been some fine gentlemen played this game, some great human beings who had to live within that "world of the code", and deal with it, all the while being exceptional men of their generation.

FFS this isn't Facebook is it? The misguided outrage is worse than the targeted "offender".

Sad that today's society forgets what brought us here, our journey from the trees through dark ages of violence and debauchery, so we could ascend to what great human beings we "think" or convey we are now.

Hypocrites.

I don't recall any reference to "all the veterans of the NHL" . There is an Old Guard, not the majority but definitely a group who agree with Don Cherry and believe that only Canadians can play this game. Jagr is not canadian just a great hockey player who doesn't fight.

[lazy26]

I don't recall any reference to "all the veterans of the NHL" . There is an Old Guard, not the majority but definitely a group who agree with Don Cherry and believe that only Canadians can play this game. Jagr is not canadian just a great hockey player who doesn't fight.

Yet, he was nicknamed "Puff Nuts" before he fled to the KHL.

I think the problem is that even though the "Old Guard" numbers may be dwindling, they still have the loudest voices.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I don't recall any reference to "all the veterans of the NHL" . There is an Old Guard, not the majority but definitely a group who agree with Don Cherry and believe that only Canadians can play this game. Jagr is not canadian just a great hockey player who doesn't fight.

Right. By Old Guard I was referring to that Cherry/Milbury - and apparently Potvin (!) - mentality. Like I said, if the Sedins were named Mackenzie, they'd be heroes. That's not 'racist,' granted, but it is nativist. We saw the 'racist' form it takes, however, when the same mentality ganged up to crap on PK Subban for daring to be too uppity when he came into the league - but that's another, albeit related, matter.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Let's not get crazy here, the Sedins shouldn't be denigrated, or abused, but they are what they are-declining stars who fell short in their career/legacy defining games. I liken then to Jumbo Joe and Marleau out in San Jose, two big goofs with generational talent that didn't get the job done.

[habs rule]

Yet, he was nicknamed "Puff Nuts" before he fled to the KHL.

I think the problem is that even though the "Old Guard" numbers may be dwindling, they still have the loudest voices.

I have never heard that, and I can't find it on the internet. He was called Mario jr because jaromir is an anagram. I do agree that the "old guard" need to dwindle. I know that Potvin was one tough SOB when he played but that was his job. And his attack was completely uncalled for imho.

[habs rule]

Let's not get crazy here, the Sedins shouldn't be denigrated, or abused, but they are what they are-declining stars who fell short in their career/legacy defining games. I liken then to Jumbo Joe and Marleau out in San Jose, two big goofs with generational talent that didn't get the job done.

That is a statement that can be said of a lot of hockey players. Ray Bourque got traded to get a cup. Many other stars have as well. Did that make them better?

[Commandant]

I don't recall any reference to "all the veterans of the NHL" . There is an Old Guard, not the majority but definitely a group who agree with Don Cherry and believe that only Canadians can play this game. Jagr is not canadian just a great hockey player who doesn't fight.

and Cherry once said about Jagr, after he got hurt on a play and was lying on the ice, that the coach didn't know if he should send out the trainer or the hair dresser.

[habs rule]

and Cherry once said about Jagr, after he got hurt on a play and was lying on the ice, that the coach didn't know if he should send out the trainer or the hair dresser.

Well in Cherry's case it would have been the seamstress.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

and Cherry once said about Jagr, after he got hurt on a play and was lying on the ice, that the coach didn't know if he should send out the trainer or the hair dresser.

Depending on the injury, that's pretty funny.

That is a statement that can be said of a lot of hockey players. Ray Bourque got traded to get a cup. Many other stars have as well. Did that make them better?

I think so. You and CC would know better that me, being from the area, but imo, the Sedins have been propped up by the twin narrative. Great players, but they're not above reproach.

[KoRP]

Say what you want about the "old guard" and "the code", but it can be argued that today's NHL is more dangerous and disrespectful with all the intentional head shots etc, than the old days that Cherry and the like speak of, where there did seem to be a respect that's missing from today's NHL, whether earned or taught.

Not everything they say is wrong... they are born, bred, and raised, hockey guys.

It's only human nature, that when you can physically intimidate, or dominate the enemy to secure the prize, then you do, kill or be killed like...

And it's kinda strange that a man the size of the Sedins, couldn't muster the gonads to punch that rat Marchand back in game 6 and 7 vs the Bruins, they watched as the cup was handed to the beasts they were beaten by... and they didn't go to the level that it demanded in that series. Losers. Politically correct, losers.

[Commandant]

Say what you want about the "old guard" and "the code", but it can be argued that today's NHL is more dangerous and disrespectful with all the intentional head shots etc, than the old days that Cherry and the like speak of, where there did seem to be a respect that's missing from today's NHL, whether earned or taught.

Not everything they say is wrong... they are born, bred, and raised, hockey guys.

It's only human nature, that when you can physically intimidate, or dominate the enemy to secure the prize, then you do, kill or be killed like...

And it's kinda strange that a man the size of the Sedins, couldn't muster the gonads to punch that rat Marchand back in game 6 and 7 vs the Bruins, they watched as the cup was handed to the beasts they were beaten by... and they didn't go to the level that it demanded in that series. Losers. Politically correct, losers.

Baloney!

There were plenty of head shots in the 70s and 80s... and hits from behind. There were elbows. There were people going after knees. There were massive slashes and stick swinging incidents. There were bench clearing brawls. All these things happened.

I don't think today's NHL is more disrespectful at all.

[hab29RETIRED]

It was respectful for Bob Clarke to intentionally break varmalov's ankle in the Canada cup?

Say what you want about the "old guard" and "the code", but it can be argued that today's NHL is more dangerous and disrespectful with all the intentional head shots etc, than the old days that Cherry and the like speak of, where there did seem to be a respect that's missing from today's NHL, whether earned or taught.

Not everything they say is wrong... they are born, bred, and raised, hockey guys.

It's only human nature, that when you can physically intimidate, or dominate the enemy to secure the prize, then you do, kill or be killed like...

And it's kinda strange that a man the size of the Sedins, couldn't muster the gonads to punch that rat Marchand back in game 6 and 7 vs the Bruins, they watched as the cup was handed to the beasts they were beaten by... and they didn't go to the level that it demanded in that series. Losers. Politically correct, losers.

[lazy26]

I have never heard that, and I can't find it on the internet. He was called Mario jr because jaromir is an anagram. I do agree that the "old guard" need to dwindle. I know that Potvin was one tough SOB when he played but that was his job. And his attack was completely uncalled for imho.

Jagr is literally the first thing that pops up if you google it.

I've heard a few NHLers refer to him by that name. I can't remember them all, but Pronger was definitely one of them.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Cops used to get called to arrest players for their actions on the ice but no, totally in the code.

Canada was looked upon as skilled thugs to European hockey back then. We used to mock them and call them wimps for it, until we learned what a concussion was and those Canadian thugs started killing themselves due to brain injuries from hits and fists mixed with drugs.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

It's really difficult to juxtapose the two eras for a few reasons:

1. Less coverage and access to the games, especially in America. These incidents weren't on SN's "Gotta See It" ten minutes after. There's not enough documentation to support either side of the argument.

2. The rules changed to discourage bench clearing brawls, post whistle scrums, and fights when the games were out of hand.

3. The equipment is much more sturdy; many people feel that hard shoulder pads, etc are causing more injuries.

4. The players have gotten a lot bigger, faster, stronger so the players now more powerful and can injure more easily.

As to what KORP said, I can't picture a rat like Matt Henricks coming in with a cowardly kill shot on Ekblad to retaliate against a clean hit back in the good old days. Say what you want, that people want remember the past the way it ought to have been, but most people who were around back then agree that players respected each other more than today. Whether or not that has to do with enforcers/the Code is out for debate.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Say what you want about the "old guard" and "the code", but it can be argued that today's NHL is more dangerous and disrespectful with all the intentional head shots etc, than the old days that Cherry and the like speak of, where there did seem to be a respect that's missing from today's NHL, whether earned or taught.

Not everything they say is wrong... they are born, bred, and raised, hockey guys.

It's only human nature, that when you can physically intimidate, or dominate the enemy to secure the prize, then you do, kill or be killed like...

And it's kinda strange that a man the size of the Sedins, couldn't muster the gonads to punch that rat Marchand back in game 6 and 7 vs the Bruins, they watched as the cup was handed to the beasts they were beaten by... and they didn't go to the level that it demanded in that series. Losers. Politically correct, losers.

The Canucks that season had a very clear modus operandi: don't retaliate, let the other team draw the penalty, kill them with the lethal power play. They won a lot of games that way.

Sedin was therefore playing by his own team's rules, the approach that had got them to the Finals. Unfortunately, the Canucks had not anticipated that the reffing (and supplemental discipline) in that series would be systematically designed to favour the Bruins - such that, for instance, you could repeatedly punch a guy repeatedly in the face and not get a a penalty. So he gets called a pussy for the rest of his career, all because he was implementing his team's game plan. In fact, it is the NHL's officiating that we should be disgusted by.

Depending on the injury, that's pretty funny.

I think so. You and CC would know better that me, being from the area, but imo, the Sedins have been propped up by the twin narrative. Great players, but they're not above reproach.

See, the 'twin narrative' is what would make the Sedins national legends if they happened to be from Powell River. Two Good Canadian Boys, twin brothers, being stars on the same team for 15 years? That's the stuff of myth. Instead, of course, they get basically accused of being pansies by these nativist ignoramuses because they're skilled players from the wrong country; accusations launched by the same turds who lionize a complete puke like Marchand because he wears the right sweater and was born in Canada.

[Commandant]

It's really difficult to juxtapose the two eras for a few reasons:

1. Less coverage and access to the games, especially in America. These incidents weren't on SN's "Gotta See It" ten minutes after. There's not enough documentation to support either side of the argument.

2. The rules changed to discourage bench clearing brawls, post whistle scrums, and fights when the games were out of hand.

3. The equipment is much more sturdy; many people feel that hard shoulder pads, etc are causing more injuries.

4. The players have gotten a lot bigger, faster, stronger so the players now more powerful and can injure more easily.

As to what KORP said, I can't picture a rat like Matt Henricks coming in with a cowardly kill shot on Ekblad to retaliate against a clean hit back in the good old days. Say what you want, that people want remember the past the way it ought to have been, but most people who were around back then agree that players respected each other more than today. Whether or not that has to do with enforcers/the Code is out for debate.

"most people who were around back then agree that players respected each other more than today"

I wasn't around for the 70s, but I was around for the 80s. I have a big question though, is that true, or is that people's natural tendency to romanticize the past.

Ask people who were around in the 70s and they will tell you that tv shows were better then, that music was better then... 80s kids all say the video games and cartoons they grew up on are better than todays. Just because a bunch of people say that something in the past was better doesn't mean it actually was, we have to guard against nostalgia.

Rats of Eras gone by

Ulf Samuelsson (taking out Neely's knees, and more)

Claude Lemieux (Kris draper and more)

Ken Linesman (nicknamed the rat)

Dale Hunter (pierre turgeon playoff hit and more)

Bryan Marchment (constant low hits)

Marty McSorely (slashing brashear in the head as retaliation cause he didn't want to fight)

There are so many more too... but idea that these guys didn't exist and people didn't make dirty plays cause they had respect for other player or because they were afraid of enforcers is just false. There were always douchebags, and there were always a lot of them.

[hab29RETIRED]

"most people who were around back then agree that players respected each other more than today"

I wasn't around for the 70s, but I was around for the 80s. I have a big question though, is that true, or is that people's natural tendency to romanticize the past.

Ask people who were around in the 70s and they will tell you that tv shows were better then, that music was better then... 80s kids all say the video games and cartoons they grew up on are better than todays. Just because a bunch of people say that something in the past was better doesn't mean it actually was, we have to guard against nostalgia.

Rats of Eras gone by

Ulf Samuelsson (taking out Neely's knees, and more)

Claude Lemieux (Kris draper and more)

Ken Linesman (nicknamed the rat)

Dale Hunter (pierre turgeon playoff hit and more)

Bryan Marchment (constant low hits)

Marty McSorely (slashing brashear in the head as retaliation cause he didn't want to fight)

There are so many more too... but idea that these guys didn't exist and people didn't make dirty plays cause they were afraid of enforcers is just false.

and keep in mind that even today, don the hypocrite cherry would still consider Hunter one of the honourable guys in the game. Despite the number of suspensions and he defended Hunter even after that cheap shot on Turgeon.

[habs rule]

Yet, he was nicknamed "Puff Nuts" before he fled to the KHL.

I think the problem is that even though the "Old Guard" numbers may be dwindling, they still have the loudest voices.

I found it, boy talk abut taking things out of context :

Known to his friends as "Puff Nuts"

You think that had something to do with his nhl career?

[KoRP]

Sedin was therefore playing by his own team's rules, the approach that had got them to the Finals. So he gets called a pussy for the rest of his career, all because he was implementing his team's game plan. In fact, it is the NHL's officiating that we should be disgusted by.

I am not at all saying the old guard is righteous, or that it doesn't need to change, I'm not advocating violence, or saying that caveman attitude is best for society and hockey, I'm simply saying that sometimes you need to get dirty to accomplish something, and fight fire with fire, situational awareness ya know?

CC, you have to admit, that plan was not what it took to win vs Boston, lose by choice... Martyr's don't have their name on the cup, and if you don't do what it takes to win when you are that close, why play in the environment you don't agree with? Oh yeah, for the money...

I bet there isn't too many guys on this board, that would continually take a punch in the face, and not attempt to curb it for themselves, instead of hiding behind all the excuses that outraged politically correct people make for , well, being a pussy.

The meek did not inherit the cup did they?

And Commandant, I didn't say there wasn't violence back in the day, I'm saying that desperate times call for desperate measures, and there was less of this cowardly "target the head stuff". The rats answered for being rats, and it makes a difference. When the league makes them answer for it(unlike Bruins vs Canucks final) then I am all for the violence being gone from the game... but the league doesn't just yet.

I'm sorry, but if you can't see it, I guess you will never know, NOT ALL the old timers say is wrong... if you think that, you're wrong.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

"The rats answered"

Bobby Clarke only fought when he knew he could win, otherwise hiding behind a goon when he took a cheapshot and Philly acting like superstars shouldn't fight.

This reminds me of how anytime someone reads The Game, they are amazed at how similar the issues in hockey were back then to today. Habs hated their coach, fans were hard on the franchise goalie, teammates fighting, NHL obsessing over national coverage, etc. one thing you won't read is the respect anyone had. That's because it was a myth created by a photo of Richard.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

I don't rag on the Sedins, but watching Marchand jab Daniel (I believe) four or five times in the face with a gloved hand, only to yell at the official for not calling a power play is the wimpiest incident I've ever seen in hockey.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I don't rag on the Sedins, but watching Marchand jab Daniel (I believe) four or five times in the face with a gloved hand, only to yell at the official for not calling a power play is the wimpiest incident I've ever seen in hockey.

Like I said...he was sticking to the team's game plan, showing formidable discipline in fact. KoRP is right that the plan was faulty, in light of the league's policy of 'anything goes' (especially by the 2011 Bruins) in the playoffs. But it's not up to an individual player, and especially not a team leader, to throw away the game plan. For being a committed, disciplined team player, Sedin has been tarred as a pussy ever since.

[DON]

Agree 100% CC, it bolied down to the ol "whistle in back pocket" bushleague officiating.

How many jabs to the face would a NFL/Rugby/MLB/NBA player get to take before his is ejected, suspended and fined?

That type of BS is unheard of in any other sport, simply terrible refereeing is what it was, but is as the owners want it to be, whatever they think is most marketable.