2015-16 NHL Season Thread

[BlueKross]

Oh goody let's get him back. Another mouthy 4th liner is exactly what we need.

I just asked about the process. Never suggested to bring him back here.

[Guest Stogey24]

Goal and assist

Oh perfect, even better

[KoRP]

Kassian 8 hits against Florida, then a goal last night. I really think this one is going to bite Bergevin

In light of what this team needs, yep. We need grit and goals right now, more than some fantastic percieved character

And he traded him for Scrivens? It's almost humorous 'cause Scrivens is honestly worse than Tokarski...

[illWill]

In light of what this team needs, yep. We need grit and goals right now, more than some fantastic percieved character

And he traded him for Scrivens? It's almost humorous 'cause Scrivens is honestly worse than Tokarski...

You would think I'm crazy if at the start of the year I told you that we will:

*Trade Kassian for Scrivens

*Trade Tinordi for John Scott and some bum

*Send Semin packing his bags to Russia for nothing

[habs rule]

I just asked about the process. Never suggested to bring him back here.

I know but it is just the type of stupid move we would make this year.

[KoRP]

You would think I'm crazy if at the start of the year I told you that we will:

*Trade Kassian for Scrivens

*Trade Tinordi for John Scott and some bum

*Send Semin packing his bags to Russia for nothing

Yep, stark raving mad!

Maybe Arizona is going to hook us up with Boedeker cheap and even out the story ?

[DON]

No, I thought Semin wouldn't cut it and was washed up, but no risk signing.

Trade Tinordi for another AHL d-man (Scott is irrelevant) not a huge surprise, I thought might get a 4th or 5th round pick for him, but he played like an average AHL d-man for awhile now.

Kassian was a head case in Vancouver, so him washing out not a surprise neither, but no risk signing.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

No, I thought Semin wouldn't cut it and was washed up, but no risk signing.

Trade Tinordi for another AHL d-man (Scott is irrelevant) not a huge surprise, I thought might get a 4th or 5th round pick for him, but he played like an average AHL d-man for awhile now.

Kassian was a head case in Vancouver, so him washing out not a surprise neither, but no risk signing.

I tend to agree. I saw Semin as a what-the-hell move and still don't understand all this garment-rending over a guy who has 7 goals in his last 83 NHL games, a routine healthy scratch on a wretched Hurricanes team. What is so hard to grasp about the concept that this guy was washed-up?

Tinordi had already played himself into a parlous situation after failing to progress over a period of years, so while the John Scott thing would definitely have surprised me, the idea of Tin Man being dumped would not have, especially after his pathetic failure to step up during training camp.

Kassian is the big surprise to me. It's NOT surprising at all that he did something stupid, or that he crapped out of the organization; go back to my posts when we acquired him and you'll see me mooting this as the likeliest scenario. What's surprising is, rather, that we shipped him out of town without even giving him a single meaningful opportunity to prove himself after he went to rehab. I think Zoot Suit made a fundamental error there in reacting like the old-school hockey guy he is - "this kid told me he'd fly right, and instead he spat in my face, screw him!!" - rather than as the kind of careful asset-manager modern GMs need to be.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

rather than as the kind of careful asset-manager modern GMs need to be.

On one side you have that. On the other side you have him sending Carr and Andrighetto down because he doesn't want to risk Smith-Pelly to waivers. A move that actively hurt the teams ability to score goals.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

On one side you have that. On the other side you have him sending Carr and Andrighetto down because he doesn't want to risk Smith-Pelly to waivers. A move that actively hurt the teams ability to score goals.

Yeah, well, then he should be looking to trade Smith-Pelley to make room for Carr in particular. I get the argument for doing what he did there, but 'actively hurting' a team in crisis is not responsible GMing either.

[Trizzak]

On one side you have that. On the other side you have him sending Carr and Andrighetto down because he doesn't want to risk Smith-Pelly to waivers. A move that actively hurt the teams ability to score goals.

Could have quite easily left Carr up and kept De La Rose down, so I don't think this is accurate...

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Could have quite easily left Carr up and kept De La Rose down, so I don't think this is accurate...

Therrien wanted a bigger bodied player for the fourth line. Bergevin sent Andrighetto and Carr down, called DLR up. They put Fleischmann back in the lineup as well as Weise. Recently had DSP back in the lineup.

The fact they made the decision at all was because Carr can go up and down waivers. Otherwise, Bergevin would have had to put someone (likely DSP) on waivers. So it's all about Carr or DSP.

[Commandant]

Only that big body (DLR) was left in the press box against the Bruins.

Carr should be up. We have no wingers who freaking score.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Carr being sent down is the latest head scratcher. This team is making a lot of illogical moves that can be seen a mile away.

[illWill]

I tend to agree. I saw Semin as a what-the-hell move and still don't understand all this garment-rending over a guy who has 7 goals in his last 83 NHL games, a routine healthy scratch on a wretched Hurricanes team. What is so hard to grasp about the concept that this guy was washed-up?

The mere fact that Bergevin went out and signed a washed up Semin shows that he wasn't exactly confident with the roster that he had at the time. Rather than let the kids battle it out for that top 6 spot, he gambled. Well with the club off to it's best start in franchise history and battling it out for first place in the league, he decided that the winning had nothing to do with Semin and one of the kids could do his job better. Well that top 6 hole that we all wanted filled in the offseason is back to being just that, a hole. These kids are not ready for prime time production just yet. And I'm not sitting here saying that Semin is the 40 goal man of yesteryear because he has obviously decline quite a bit. What I am saying is that MB has not addressed a glaring need on this team and in my opinion, a washed up Semin is better suited for that spot than these AHLers and a Calgary waiver pickup. How can a team go from such dominance to such futility in that short of a time span? It's not just our missing MVP, it's because there's a mix of crap throughout the lineup. Semin on the team represented a recognized role. He was there to shoot and pass the puck, no confusion. And that trickles down the team and lets guys that are 4th liners be good 4th liners. I can agree that looking at Semin individually one can say that he is washed up garbage and get rid of him. But looking at the team as a whole, it hurt more than many might think.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

When the season started, 3/4 lines were scoring. The one line that wasn't? Eller - Galchenyuk - Semin. The blame went onto Semin. Eller had his occasional production despite playing with skilled players and receiving offensive starts. Galchenyuk has been one of our best offensive performers regardless of his linemates (and sometimes in spite of) but has still a bit of learning/development to do.

Eventually the fourth line went cold (as it was expected to, though a big part of it was Mitchell going down to injury). Then the catalyst of the top line got injured in Gallagher. Plekanec and Pacioretty lost their way. The third and final line was just on a hot streak and cooled down with only Weise still contributing as Fleischmann and Desharnais went dead cold.

Therrien then went to juggling the lines to try and make something work while the team discarded Semin, picked up Byron and called players up to replace injuries. It had nothing to do with Semin because his line was never really "going". The problem lied in:

- Streaky players started the season hot

- Important players went down to injury

- Line juggling did nothing to kickstart players

All while this was happening, Marc Bergevin was unwilling to pay the appropriate price to add scoring onto the team, deciding instead to "wait it out". And waiting it out has meant watching our lead in the NHL disappear, our lead in the East disappear, our lead in the Atlantic disappear and now our playoff spot disappear. And teams now know he's desperate to add. So now he's even less reluctant to pay any price.

I wouldn't be so mad about this if he didn't send Carr down when there was no reason to and if he did try to add a Hudler or Vrbata or ANYTHING in December to try to stop the slide. Instead he just watched it and said, "The price is too much."

Ineffective GM.

[DON]

No Bergevin has been around long enough to recognize having 1 all-star forward is huge weakness. Just he couldn't afford to sign Petry and also a top six upgrade and Semin was a "what the hell" maybe can squeeze 15-20g from him next to Galchenyuk.

Carr demotion is a head scratcher for sure though. But the more I see of Byron the more I like what he brings, he must almost get 1 SH breakaway/game.

Will be really interesting to see what he does, can he ignore all the Booing, losing, call for trades/firings and stick to his 'plan'. Serge Savard speaking today basically said Bergevin should avoid overreacting to first real tough spot under his tenure.

[illWill]

When the season started, 3/4 lines were scoring. The one line that wasn't? Eller - Galchenyuk - Semin. The blame went onto Semin. Eller had his occasional production despite playing with skilled players and receiving offensive starts. Galchenyuk has been one of our best offensive performers regardless of his linemates (and sometimes in spite of) but has still a bit of learning/development to do.

My argument is that 3/4 lines were doing well because everyone was where they were supposed to be. Opening night lineup:

Max Pacioretty - Tomas Plekanec - Brendan Gallagher

Lars Eller - Alex Galchenyuk - Alexander Semin

Tomas Fleischmann - David Desharnais - Dale Weise

Brian Flynn - Torrey Mitchell - Devante Smith-Pelly

As you can see, those lines make alot of sense. Nobody is playing above their capabilities and they have defined roles. Line up vs Chicago the other night:

Max Pacioretty - Tomas Plekanec - Brendan Gallagher

Alex Galchenyuk - David Desharnais - Dale Weise

Tomas Fleischmann - Lars Eller - Paul Byron

Jacob de la Rose - Torrey Mitchell - Brian Flynn

Here we can see how much worse the entire line up looks. Weise and DD on the second line? Yikes. Eller in between Fleischmann and Byron? Ugly. This is why the team is pretty much dead last in the entire NHL in alot of important categories over this stretch. Singling Semin out for his play as an individual is one thing, but his absence means that everyone has to bump up a line and here we are. I wonder what happened to the old saying " if it ain't broke don't fix it"! Well MB sure did fix it. Fixed it all the way from 1st to out of a playoff spot.

Edit: I have been a HUGE MB fan every since he was hired and have been able to justify each and every one of his moves. This year though he has me scratching my head on each deal he has made.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Carr demotion is a head scratcher for sure though. But the more I see of Byron the more I like what he brings, he must almost get 1 SH breakaway/game.

I have liked Byron a lot. Have no criticism about him. Unfortunate he went down to injury. Glad we got him off waivers from the Flames.

[KoRP]

I am inclined to agree with illWill, the overall effect of Semin's spot being changed for no apparent reason, has stretched this roster in ways it cannot afford.

Semin, Eller and Galchenyuk as a line were doing great possessing the puck, and although didn't set the scoreboard on fire (for 9 games) they looked like they had chemistry, and very dangerous in the offensive zone, but they key is the other lines looked good too, to the tune of 9-0. What more proof do you need that Semin wasn't any worse than Pelley, DLR, DD, Eller, Fleishman, etc.? There is no proof, in fact. Semin at least showed skill with the puck, and could still beat people 1 on 1.

Now we don't have any line that really looks dangerous in the offensive zone, at least in terms of creating grade A chances, and actually burying them.

Doesn't really matter now, because both NHL wingers we let go for nothing and traded for goalie fodder are gone.... and here we are.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

I tend to agree. I saw Semin as a what-the-hell move and still don't understand all this garment-rending over a guy who has 7 goals in his last 83 NHL games, a routine healthy scratch on a wretched Hurricanes team. What is so hard to grasp about the concept that this guy was washed-up?

It's pretty simple. If it was so obvious that Semin was washed up 15 games into the season then the original move was not a "what-the-hell" move. It was a mistake. If we're quoting Hurricanes stats of his as being representative of what we think his potential was on the Habs, then acquiring him was once again not a what the hell move, it was a mistake.

I was personally of the positive view that it wasn't a mistake because of the contract but that's another story altogether and I'm arguing either way things weren't handled properly.

The reality is that Semin was who Bergevin acquired to fill the void we're discussing. Now people are complaining that we don't have a second line winger and then wonder why? I would personally have rather had a scapegoat in Semin (worst case scenario) on the team than a glaring hole at wing on the second line. No one claims that Semin would have been anything more than he could have been. He had a good contract and would have scored some goals regardless of any comments about how bad he is. The reality is not that we need Semin per se. The reality is that we now need to replace him (with a veteran in my opinion). Until then, I won't agree with the way it was handled and his name will be the one brought up.

[DON]

I think we have been getting good scoring chances, but puck is going off glass or end boards, or one PK Subban deaks out 4 of 5 opponents till is wide open 20 feet in front of net and...tries to pass to someone at the side of net!

Why wont he go hard to net or shoot a wrister when in the slot???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

It's pretty simple. If it was so obvious that Semin was washed up 15 games into the season then the original move was not a "what-the-hell" move. It was a mistake. If we're quoting Hurricanes stats of his as being representative of what we think his potential was on the Habs, then acquiring him was once again not a what the hell move, it was a mistake.

I was personally of the positive view that it wasn't a mistake because of the contract but that's another story altogether and I'm arguing either way things weren't handled properly.

The reality is that Semin was who Bergevin acquired to fill the void we're discussing. Now people are complaining that we don't have a second line winger and then wonder why? I would personally have rather had a scapegoat in Semin (worst case scenario) on the team than a glaring hole at wing on the second line. No one claims that Semin would have been anything more than he could have been. He had a good contract and would have scored some goals regardless of any comments about how bad he is. The reality is not that we need Semin per se. The reality is that we now need to replace him (with a veteran in my opinion). Until then, I won't agree with the way it was handled and his name will be the one brought up.

Carr made a bigger impact than Semin IMHO.

This whole line of reasoning about the 'void in the lineup' left by Semin's departure is based on axiomatic reasoning - i.e., the idea that Semin is axiomatically a legit NHLer and top-6 forward ('second line winger'). But this is no longer true. Therefore, the critique makes no sense. You might as well complain that Bergevin let P.A. Parenteau go and complain that THAT left a 'void in the lineup.'

Crap players are crap players. Semin, like PAP, was a crap player. Instead of him, we are putting some OTHER crap player in his slot, or someone like Carr who actually does some good things. So the whole argument falls apart. Semin was no more of an answer to the 'void in the lineup' than PAP was, or Carr is, or whoever else we slide in there might be.

[xXx..CK..xXx]

Carr made a bigger impact than Semin IMHO.

This whole line of reasoning about the 'void in the lineup' left by Semin's departure is based on axiomatic reasoning - i.e., the idea that Semin is axiomatically a legit NHLer and top-6 forward ('second line winger'). But this is no longer true. Therefore, the critique makes no sense. You might as well complain that Bergevin let P.A. Parenteau go and complain that THAT left a 'void in the lineup.'

Crap players are crap players. Semin, like PAP, was a crap player. Instead of him, we are putting some OTHER crap player in his slot, or someone like Carr who actually does some good things. So the whole argument falls apart. Semin was no more of an answer to the 'void in the lineup' than PAP was, or Carr is, or whoever else we slide in there might be.

The argument for Carr is a good one until we realize that he was sent back down to the AHL.

The comparison to PAP is an arguable one but we did not let him or any of MB's other underwhelming acquisitions go so soon into the season. They simply weren't resigned at the end of the year. It's a circular argument and I get your side of it but I think the way this was handled is one of the few contributors to the slide... Along with the Gallagher and Price injuries.

Let's not forget that we were 9-0-0 with the exact same lines and that was 100% of the reason outside of Price that we were successful. Once we started benching Semin we had to waste games figuring out who fit where.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

The argument for Carr is a good one until we realize that he was sent back down to the AHL.

The comparison to PAP is an arguable one but we did not let him or any of MB's other underwhelming acquisitions go so soon into the season. They simply weren't resigned at the end of the year. It's a circular argument and I get your side of it but I think the way this was handled is one of the few contributors to the slide... Along with the Gallagher and Price injuries.

Let's not forget that we were 9-0-0 with the exact same lines and that was 100% of the reason outside of Price that we were successful. Once we started benching Semin we had to waste games figuring out who fit where.

The real issue cannot possibly be the loss of a washed-up Semin. This was a successful team without Semin, after all, and PAP playing in his slot.

Now if you want to argue in more general terms that the lack of 1-2 legitimate top-6 forwards is a structural weakness that has finally come back to kill us, then I'm with you.

Add to that the regression of Pleks, DD, and Markov, and the injury to Price, and we've got ourselves a bona-fide crisis.

Without legit top-6 W - of which Semin was not one - this team needed the above players to play up to, or beyond their career norms. There's not enough depth up front to survive a couple of slumping forwards and erratic netminding.

Carr is a better player than Semin from what I can see, and of course he should not have been sent down. That was dumb, just as trading Kassian was - but unlike the Kassian deal, that's at least a fixable error.