DON Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Why, Hawks ran into cap trouble couple times lately and are paying two guys a combined $22m/yr and are looking good to repeat as cup winners. That whole window to win thing I think is overrated and I imagine Bergevin knows cap mgmt a bit better than us, he was part of Hawk success and would LOVE to win a cup any year now. So doubt he is oblivious to when 67-31-etc contracts run out and is factoring that into his decisions (or knowingly dismissing it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Why, Hawks ran into cap trouble couple times lately and are paying two guys a combined $22m/yr and are looking good to repeat as cup winners. That whole window to win thing I think is overrated and I imagine Bergevin knows cap mgmt a bit better than us, he was part of Hawk success and would LOVE to win a cup any year now. So doubt he is oblivious to when 67-31-etc contracts run out and is factoring that into his decisions (or knowingly dismissing it). shall we talk about the shark's. talk about lost opportunity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Why, S.J. never even made the finals did they (did they even make the semi finals ever?)? So I assume they never even came close to icing a real contender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Why, Hawks ran into cap trouble couple times lately and are paying two guys a combined $22m/yr and are looking good to repeat as cup winners. That whole window to win thing I think is overrated and I imagine Bergevin knows cap mgmt a bit better than us, he was part of Hawk success and would LOVE to win a cup any year now. So doubt he is oblivious to when 67-31-etc contracts run out and is factoring that into his decisions (or knowingly dismissing it). When you have the NHL scoring leader and the best captain in the NHL locked up at $22m/yr and have a sweetheart deal by one of the top 5 Dmen in the league, you aren't doing too bad. We have Maxpac on a great deal ,but pleks looks like he will be overpaid next year along with Markov. We will also have to pony up for Galchenyuk.The hawks also have a rookie of the year candidate and teravainen as an up and coming star. I'd take the hawks lineup, along with their coach GM and advisor in Scotty Bowan over ours without blinking. The only real horrible contract they have is Bickell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I don't think Plek or Markov will be overpaid. Thats the cost for a #2 centre who is excellent in his own end, as well as a 2nd pairing defenceman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs owned the 70's Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Why, Hawks ran into cap trouble couple times lately and are paying two guys a combined $22m/yr and are looking good to repeat as cup winners. That whole window to win thing I think is overrated and I imagine Bergevin knows cap mgmt a bit better than us, he was part of Hawk success and would LOVE to win a cup any year now. So doubt he is oblivious to when 67-31-etc contracts run out and is factoring that into his decisions (or knowingly dismissing it). You've got to be kidding right? The best goalie since Patrick Roy, the best defenseman since Larry Robinson and the highest goal scoring forward over the last 20 + years all at their prime and you think there isn't a window to win that's going to start closing relatively soon? If something major isn't done within 2-3 years then this management team will have wasted some of the best talent to come through the organization over the past 40 yrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 100% agree. In a couple of years Price, Maxpac, are going to need to get paid at market rates. Right now they can bring in help to add to the lineup. This may be Markov's last decent year. I think we may be in for a sharp decline in Pleks. We needed to add a big piece this past summer, instead of scrounging for Kmart shopper specials. Crüe only caveat for not trying to mmove picks, prospects and bodies for a major upgrade at forward now, is how serious is Price's injury. Is it going to prevent in him coming back and being effective? Will he come back too late for us to be in a playoff spot?? You've got to be kidding right? The best goalie since Patrick Roy, the best defenseman since Larry Robinson and the highest goal scoring forward over the last 20 + years all at their prime and you think there isn't a window to win that's going to start closing relatively soon? If something major isn't done within 2-3 years then this management team will have wasted some of the best talent to come through the organization over the past 40 yrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Markov's play is sharply declining and for some stop id reason he is being played close to 30 minutes. Yes Petry is hurt, but we are seeing a year over year decline in Markov. Not sure he will still be a $6m player next year, or that pleks will be a $6m for the next THREE years. I don't think Plek or Markov will be overpaid. Thats the cost for a #2 centre who is excellent in his own end, as well as a 2nd pairing defenceman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Markov is playing 23minutes/gm, 2 minutes less than last year not 30, is 20 in d-scoring and Plekanec is on pace for better production year than last year. So you can try and put a negative spin on everything if you like, but shouldn't just make stuff up to complain about. SO... exactly which "big piece" did Bergevin miss out on last summer, that you are positive he didn't bid on? Exactly which player is the correct one to come in to add to the lineup and what will it cost... or with window closing do we say screw it and deal away young roster players, prospects and picks as Rangers have done? Which is Beaulieu, McCarron maybe Juulsen and 1st/2nd picks and that is about it. Duschene, or Ladd-types wont come cheap, but we need to win NOW you say, so screw the future, even if dont have much to deal away to begin with? Or would you make Gallagher-Galchenyuk available also? Then we might get a good forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Markov's play is sharply declining and for some stop id reason he is being played close to 30 minutes. Close to 30 minutes? He's just under 23 minutes a night on average. He had one game with a lot more ice time than he should have had but that's not the type of ice time he's getting every night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I think Habs 29 and Owned the 70s are basically right about the 'window'...although a lot does depend on our prospect pool. E.g., if we pay for raises for MaxPac, Price, and Galchenyuk, but save money by replacing guys like DD or Pleks or Emelin or Markov with young players who are as good or better than they are right now, then the team is no worse off, and maybe even better off. (Whether we have those prospects is another question). I don't think MB had to add that 'extra piece' in the off-season necessarily. Any time before the deadline is fine by me. I also cling to the belief that it doesn't have to be some blockbuster name, just a legit top-6 W (LW or RW, really). It's not even clear that it has to be a longer-term fix. You could just acquire a rental and keep biding your time for the right longer-term deal. This isn't a great scenario, I'll admit, but it could work. Especially if you have someone in the prospect pool that you think could do the job in 1-2 years (which I doubt). And yes, if Price's injury is long-term, we should refrain from giving away significant assets for an immediate fix. On the whole, I'm more concerned about this edition of the team than DON is. This was definitely supposed to be a Year of the Wide-Open Window: the year when the Patches/PK/Price generation really made that big push. Instead it's got a decided whiff of 'wasted season' about it. I keep having nightmares about 2008-09, which was the last season when we were supposed to step up and contend, and instead got decimated by key injuries and just collapsed. We're nowhere near that point yet, but...we're a lot closer to that point than I'd expected us to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Why, S.J. never even made the finals did they (did they even make the semi finals ever?)? So I assume they never even came close to icing a real contender. Oh they iced a contender, every year they were considered to be favorites for the cup, never happened and their window is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I think Habs 29 and Owned the 70s are basically right about the 'window'...although a lot does depend on our prospect pool. E.g., if we pay for raises for MaxPac, Price, and Galchenyuk, but save money by replacing guys like DD or Pleks or Emelin or Markov with young players who are as good or better than they are right now, then the team is no worse off, and maybe even better off. (Whether we have those prospects is another question). I don't think MB had to add that 'extra piece' in the off-season necessarily. Any time before the deadline is fine by me. I also cling to the belief that it doesn't have to be some blockbuster name, just a legit top-6 W (LW or RW, really). It's not even clear that it has to be a longer-term fix. You could just acquire a rental and keep biding your time for the right longer-term deal. This isn't a great scenario, I'll admit, but it could work. Especially if you have someone in the prospect pool that you think could do the job in 1-2 years (which I doubt). And yes, if Price's injury is long-term, we should refrain from giving away significant assets for an immediate fix. On the whole, I'm more concerned about this edition of the team than DON is. This was definitely supposed to be a Year of the Wide-Open Window: the year when the Patches/PK/Price generation really made that big push. Instead it's got a decided whiff of 'wasted season' about it. I keep having nightmares about 2008-09, which was the last season when we were supposed to step up and contend, and instead got decimated by key injuries and just collapsed. We're nowhere near that point yet, but...we're a lot closer to that point than I'd expected us to be. Good post, but I think you agree that something has to be done or 08/09 is coming around the bend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 He played a he'll of a lot more than 22min last game. Most of pleks production came in the first 13 or 14 games this year and has been crap since signing his extention. Why don't you look at the playing stats or pleks production through the last 20 games. Neither are close to the players they were in the past. It's not just this year, MB has been getting bandaids at forward every year - briere, PAP, Kassian, semin, or a steady stream of 4th liners. Meanwhile my first pick - and aparerntly the habs first pick for GM, jim.Nill has picked up a high impact each year and has his team playing the type of hockey habs team used to play. But you go ahead pulling your prom poms to support support the great Dale Weisse, flynn, Mitchell, DSP pickups. Markov is playing 23minutes/gm, 2 minutes less than last year not 30, is 20 in d-scoring and Plekanec is on pace for better production year than last year. So you can try and put a negative spin on everything if you like, but shouldn't just make stuff up to complain about. SO... exactly which "big piece" did Bergevin miss out on last summer, that you are positive he didn't bid on? Exactly which player is the correct one to come in to add to the lineup and what will it cost... or with window closing do we say screw it and deal away young roster players, prospects and picks as Rangers have done? Which is Beaulieu, McCarron maybe Juulsen and 1st/2nd picks and that is about it. Duschene, or Ladd-types wont come cheap, but we need to win NOW you say, so screw the future, even if dont have much to deal away to begin with? Or would you make Gallagher-Galchenyuk available also? Then we might get a good forward. I posted the Markov comment specifically after the pens game Close to 30 minutes? He's just under 23 minutes a night on average. He had one game with a lot more ice time than he should have had but that's not the type of ice time he's getting every night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I see too many parallels to 08/09 and also heard elliote Friedman refer to this stretch as being like to Leafs 18 wheeler that went off the road a few years back. I think Habs 29 and Owned the 70s are basically right about the 'window'...although a lot does depend on our prospect pool. E.g., if we pay for raises for MaxPac, Price, and Galchenyuk, but save money by replacing guys like DD or Pleks or Emelin or Markov with young players who are as good or better than they are right now, then the team is no worse off, and maybe even better off. (Whether we have those prospects is another question). I don't think MB had to add that 'extra piece' in the off-season necessarily. Any time before the deadline is fine by me. I also cling to the belief that it doesn't have to be some blockbuster name, just a legit top-6 W (LW or RW, really). It's not even clear that it has to be a longer-term fix. You could just acquire a rental and keep biding your time for the right longer-term deal. This isn't a great scenario, I'll admit, but it could work. Especially if you have someone in the prospect pool that you think could do the job in 1-2 years (which I doubt). And yes, if Price's injury is long-term, we should refrain from giving away significant assets for an immediate fix. On the whole, I'm more concerned about this edition of the team than DON is. This was definitely supposed to be a Year of the Wide-Open Window: the year when the Patches/PK/Price generation really made that big push. Instead it's got a decided whiff of 'wasted season' about it. I keep having nightmares about 2008-09, which was the last season when we were supposed to step up and contend, and instead got decimated by key injuries and just collapsed. We're nowhere near that point yet, but...we're a lot closer to that point than I'd expected us to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Meanwhile my first pick - and aparerntly the habs first pick for GM, jim.Nill has picked up a high impact each year and has his team playing the type of hockey habs team used to play. But you go ahead pulling your prom poms to support support the great Dale Weisse, flynn, Mitchell, DSP pickups. I'm pretty sure Jim Nill doesn't speak French. Therefore he never really would have been under serious consideration since ownership is adamant that the coach and GM must speak French. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Apparently the habs Asked to speak to him and he was the one turned us gown for family reasons I'm pretty sure Jim Nill doesn't speak French. Therefore he never really would have been under serious consideration since ownership is adamant that the coach and GM must speak French. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Apparently the habs Asked to speak to him and he was the one turned us gown for family reasons I seem to remember that - that still wouldn't necessarily have made him their first pick for the job as you suggested though. They asked for permission to speak to quite a few people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I seem to remember that - that still wouldn't necessarily have made him their first pick for the job as you suggested though. They asked for permission to speak to quite a few people. http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=44084 Nill turned the Habs down. I doubt Molson brought him in just to chit chat with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I'm pretty sure Jim Nill doesn't speak French. Therefore he never really would have been under serious consideration since ownership is adamant that the coach and GM must speak French. You are right and it is still stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link67 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 If the cup doesn't come this year or next, there is going to be cap issues with paying Price. Which in turn makes it even harder to win a cup. Bergevin needs to pony up well that comes with a double edge, their will also be some big dollar contracts coming off the books at the same time by then. Price is signed for 3 seasons including this one, coming off the books by then and around the same time are Markov(5.7) Desharnais(3.5) Plekanec(6.0) Emelin(4.1) Eller(3.5). All that coming off allows you to make some major cap prioritizing changes, plus however much more the cap increases in 3 seasons could be beneficial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 plus however much more the cap increases in 3 seasons could be beneficial. I don't know if you noticed lately but the Canadian dollar isn't shining very brightly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 well that comes with a double edge, their will also be some big dollar contracts coming off the books at the same time by then. Price is signed for 3 seasons including this one, coming off the books by then and around the same time are Markov(5.7) Desharnais(3.5) Plekanec(6.0) Emelin(4.1) Eller(3.5). All that coming off allows you to make some major cap prioritizing changes, plus however much more the cap increases in 3 seasons could be beneficial. The boys aren't getting any younger is all I'm saying. This year and next were suppose to be big for this franchise. With a 12 million dollar goalie, your budget gets tight no matter how you look at it. 21 million tied up in 2 players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 The boys aren't getting any younger is all I'm saying. This year and next were suppose to be big for this franchise. With a 12 million dollar goalie, your budget gets tight no matter how you look at it. 21 million tied up in 2 players. you got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I certainly don't feel like waiting anymore. I'll trade our entire prospect stock if it makes us unquestionable contenders for the Cup. The next three years mean everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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