C-Love Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 A perfect place for people to go to complain about Weber and praise Subban. In this thread, real stats don't matter. Weber is not leading the league in +/- and is not tied for 3rd overall in the overall scoring race. In here PK is a legend and does no wrong!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 If I gave out -1's, I'd give you one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I always find it weird, I don't see much complaining anywhere about Weber himself, just about the trade itself. Even that is mild at this point. Personally, I was never a fan of the trade, and yet I support Weber, and have enjoyed what he has brought so far. I also recognize that 6 games into a season isn't a whole lot to make an assessment of performance. Why can't PK and Weber both be lauded instead of constantly being bashed from one side? I would agree that in the beginning those of us against the trade were far more vocal about it; we were passionate and upset. Now that the fires have burned out, it seems like the Subban detractors keep going. He's also playing at a point per game. These are both elite players. Weber is plus, Subban is minus. Weber has terrible possession stats, Subban has good possession stats. Different people put more significance in one than the other, and that's alright. But why is there still this soreness against Subban since he did absolutely nothing but give it all while he was here? It's not like he left as a UFA. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I do give out +1's though^. Hit the nail on the head there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 2 hours ago, C-Love said: A perfect place for people to go to complain about Weber and praise Subban. In this thread, real stats don't matter. Weber is not leading the league in +/- and is not tied for 3rd overall in the overall scoring race. In here PK is a legend and does no wrong!!! I didn't realize Subban was such a rabid Titan fan...ahhh I forgot, there were camera's rolling so had to put on a show, is what showboats do best I guess. I really do miss his crazy antics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 39 minutes ago, DON said: I didn't realize Subban was such a rabid Titan fan...ahhh I forgot, there were camera's rolling so had to put on a show, is what showboats do best I guess. I really do miss his crazy antics. Shame on him for being entertaining in the entertainment industry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 6 minutes ago, Meller93 said: Shame on him for being entertaining in the entertainment industry Hey, I meant that in a positive way...nah that's not true, just sulking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-Love Posted October 25, 2016 Author Share Posted October 25, 2016 2 hours ago, Meller93 said: I always find it weird, I don't see much complaining anywhere about Weber himself, just about the trade itself. Even that is mild at this point. I would tend to agree with you, but if you go into the Weber Appreciation thread there seems to be a lot of Weber bashing for whatever reason. I don't really have an issue with people bashing him and giving their opinions, I just thought maybe that thread would not be the appropriate place to do it. With this one, it just makes it easier for everybody. This could be a place where people could go to vent, because it seems like this discussion makes it into every thread lately. I thought the Weber thread would be a good place to go to just have some positive dialogue, but that didn't really happen. In retrospect this could have been named something a little better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 good idea anyways sir. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 3 hours ago, C-Love said: I would tend to agree with you, but if you go into the Weber Appreciation thread there seems to be a lot of Weber bashing for whatever reason. I don't really have an issue with people bashing him and giving their opinions, I just thought maybe that thread would not be the appropriate place to do it. With this one, it just makes it easier for everybody. This could be a place where people could go to vent, because it seems like this discussion makes it into every thread lately. I thought the Weber thread would be a good place to go to just have some positive dialogue, but that didn't really happen. In retrospect this could have been named something a little better! There is no bashing in the Weber appreciation thread. There is merely the pointing out of reality that he has had some very good games, and some games that were not quite as good. Just because the praise isn't unconditional, doesn't mean the guy is being bashed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 Pretty sure there is plenty of sulking in the trade thread itself. Anyone who is bashing Weber is out of his mind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daLight Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 Hey everyone Visit www.webersubban.com for advanced stats of both players. The website will be updated throughout the season! Thanks everyone! daLight 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 31 minutes ago, daLight said: Hey everyone Visit www.webersubban.com for advanced stats of both players. The website will be updated throughout the season! Thanks everyone! daLight Ayyyyy, welcome to the forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 13 hours ago, daLight said: 13 hours ago, daLight said: Hey everyone Visit www.webersubban.com for advanced stats of both players. The website will be updated throughout the season! Thanks everyone! daLight Yes of course welcome and all that, but this writer sorta sums up my take on a continuing debate/comparison of Weber and the ex-hab. And I can do without a website to prolong that. "Perhaps the Canadiens would have the same record with P.K. Subban still in the lineup and not Shea Weber. In reality though, the trade has been analyzed enough. Weber is who the Canadiens have now and so far he has performed above and beyond expectations, leading the team with seven points in six games. He is a rock on defence and his combination of calm and strength makes everyone around him stand taller and play with more confidence." J.Cutler 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 On 10/25/2016 at 7:36 AM, C-Love said: In this thread, real stats don't matter. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 2015-16 NHL Corsi ranking is one for a good chuckle! Crosby 86th (6th on Pens) Kopitar 214th Corey Perry 236th and some ex-hab d-man I wont name was 241st Sounds credible to anyone...anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 2 hours ago, DON said: 2015-16 NHL Corsi ranking is one for a good chuckle! Crosby 86th (6th on Pens) Kopitar 214th Corey Perry 236th and some ex-hab d-man I wont name was 241st Sounds credible to anyone...anyone? This is why you don't look at one stat, but also have to look at who the player is playing against, and what their zone starts are, as well as who the player is playing with. As I said in the other thread, a statistical analysis of a player never looks at just one stat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 I think the fancy stats are so complicated and variable that very few people understand them. You can tell me ally you want about corsica and fenway, I will keep watching the game enjoying and keeping track of the scoreboard, which at the end of the day is all that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Just now, habs rule said: I think the fancy stats are so complicated and variable that very few people understand them. You can tell me all you want about corsica and fenway, I will keep watching the game enjoying and keeping track of the scoreboard, which at the end of the day is all that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 10 hours ago, habs rule said: 10 hours ago, habs rule said: I think the fancy stats are so complicated and variable that very few people understand them. You can tell me all you want about corsica and fenway, I will keep watching the game enjoying and keeping track of the scoreboard, which at the end of the day is all that matters. To many yes, to others it is all about the stats. Most of us just arnt smart enough to get 'it' and actually enjoy the games without pulling up the statistical analysis to find out if player A or B did well or not. It isnt rocket science, but some like to show they are smarter and will beat you over the head with one lame stat after another if you don't buy in or dismiss them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 17 minutes ago, DON said: To many yes, to others it is all about the stats. Most of us just arnt smart enough to get 'it' and actually enjoy the games without pulling up the statistical analysis to find out if player A or B did well or not. It isnt rocket science, but some like to show they are smarter and will beat you over the head with one lame stat after another if you don't buy in or dismiss them. A lot of people also don't have the time to watch every game in its entirety. I was not home last night during the game, and only watched about 2 minutes around every goal, so I really have no idea how they played, other than those highlights. You get a feel for how players are playing by watching the game, but we've mostly got full time jobs and families and other stuff going on, so sometimes you have to look at the stat sheet to have any idea what happened. And then your information will only be superficial. This is true even for the professionals. It's highly unlikely they can watch all 1230 games in a regular season. At some point you have to rely on stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 1 hour ago, Jeff Price (no relation) said: A lot of people also don't have the time to watch every game in its entirety. I was not home last night during the game, and only watched about 2 minutes around every goal, so I really have no idea how they played, other than those highlights. You get a feel for how players are playing by watching the game, but we've mostly got full time jobs and families and other stuff going on, so sometimes you have to look at the stat sheet to have any idea what happened. And then your information will only be superficial. This is true even for the professionals. It's highly unlikely they can watch all 1230 games in a regular season. At some point you have to rely on stats. Well I just want to enjoy the game and win a cup I am not going tp, nor do I have the time to sit and make little marks on a piece of paper. Heck I might miss a goal. Ok I have no idea how these "stats" get recorded, course I also don't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 You really have to hand it to Weber. He came into a high-pressure environment that he didn't ask for, and instead of wilting, or struggling with the transition as may players are apt to do, he's taken the bull by the horns and delivered monster performances. You have to admire a guy who mans up like that. All that being said - I love how so many commentators have forgotten that the Habs with Subban and Price - minus Radulov - started last season 9-0 and were every bit as dominant as the team has been this season. The trade is working out just fine in the short term. But that was never really the question, was it? In any case, it is what it is. Weber's a beast just as Subban is; and let's hope Weber can remain in his prime for another decade, just as Subban will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 16 hours ago, Commandant said: This is why you don't look at one stat, but also have to look at who the player is playing against, and what their zone starts are, as well as who the player is playing with. As I said in the other thread, a statistical analysis of a player never looks at just one stat. Exactly. And if you look at Subban's relative Corsi/fenwick, you'll see he's better than his teammates by a fair margin. 13 hours ago, habs rule said: I think the fancy stats are so complicated and variable that very few people understand them. You can tell me ally you want about corsica and fenway, I will keep watching the game enjoying and keeping track of the scoreboard, which at the end of the day is all that matters. Yea, you're absolutely right, at the end of the day, the scoreboard is all that matters. These stats are used as a predictor. It takes a large sample size (many games) for them to really mean much. There's a reason why most of the Stanley cup champs have been great possession teams. I'm in no way taking away from Weber here; He's been amazing. However, he will not keep up this pace, and you have to be out of your mind to think he will put up over 100 points he's on pace for It's like trading Richard Panik for Johnny Gaudreau. Panik has 6 goals in 7 games, Gaudreau has 2 in 7. But Panik is shooting at 54% and Gaudreau is at 7%, so don't be so freakin short sighted. Advanced stats are predictive, stop acting as if game by game they're what matters when no one is claiming they are. Over the course of the next 7 years? I'll predict that they paint a much clearer picture. And no one does a backflip and attempts to kill me, I still love Weber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 5 minutes ago, Meller93 said: I'm in no way taking away from Weber here; He's been amazing. However, he will not keep up this pace, and you have to be out of your mind to think he will put up over 100 points he's on pace for. And if he ends up getting 18 goals and 53 points (other than the impossible 35 and 105 he's on pace for) he's still had a great season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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