Penguins First Pick Overall = Bust?

[BTH]

I am talking about Marc-Andre Fleury of course! He was just sent down to Wilkes-Barre as his back-up job was taken by Sebastien Caron. He seems to have been a waste of a first round pick. Despite some NHL games as an 18-year old he hasn't proven he's anything great yet.

What do you think?

[simonus]

well... i havent heard really anything about fleury's play in camp and preseason... but having the kid play a second year in AHL (second or first?) doesnt make him a bust! It makes him a human being.

We can never look into the future with perfect clarity, but Marc-Andre has as much potential as anybody to be a #1 goalie.

[Tony_]

Doesn't it take more than 2 years to develop a goalie?

[Psycing]

Yea, it usually takes quite a couple of years to get a goalie to how you want him. I figure the Penguins would rather see him play 90% of the games in the AHL then only 25-40% here in the NHL.

[BTH]

Wouldn't this be his third year? And from what I heard he hasn't been doing well in his AHL days.

Anyway, I only started it because beckham had a lot of words about him being a bust a few weeks ago. It's not a thread against beckham, I'm only wondering if you guys think he'll end up being a good goalie and/or worth his #1 overall rank.

Simonus: Not a bust as in won't make the NHL but a bust as in not playing up to his expectations. For example: I think Crosby will be great but I don't think he'll be better then Lemieux or Gretzky like some of the "experts" expect of him.

[Edited on 2005/10/2 by Bulis_the_Habbie]

[Psycing]

If he gets his confidence back, I think he'll certainly become a good, if not great goaltender in the NHL.

The load has been lifted off his shoulders a bit to not have to be the one to "save the franchise" with the addition of Crosby. I think he'll now be able to step out of the spotlight and play his game.

I only say "save the franchise" because a goaltender taken #1 in a draft has got to have some sort of magic in that glove of his.

[Edited on 2/10/05 by Macaskill]

[shortcat1]

As we all know, young players develop at different rates. As a teacher, I can easily say the same for the kids that I've known over the years.

At the age of 18, the development isn't nearly finished. Some go great guns up to that point and then they have peaked. Some continue to progress as expected, some suddenly blossom beyond expectations. These three options are just three of a myriad of possibilities.

There was a time when players were drafted at a later age (20 - 21). That gave the players more time to develop but, as far as drafting is concerned, it gave the scouting staff a more accurate estimation of a player's potential.

As to Fleury, none of us know how his growing curve will be. It's just like many first rounders and 1st overall picks who were touted to be sure bets and didn't work out that way.

There are probably as many Ryders as there are 1st overall 'flops'... one never knows.

[beckham]

Carey Price is the best goaltending prospect to come along in a couple of decades. He is so calm. That is the problem with players like Fleury, Leclaire, Lapointe, they don't have the right psychological balance. Lehtonen, Toivenen, Ward seem to have it, but I think that Price is a better athlete.

[TheBigRedC]

I beleive Fleury is fine. It is my personal opinion that they are sending him down in an effort not to rush him. He only has like 30 games under his belt due to the lockout and I beleive they are going to take their time with him. I beleive it is a good idea not to rush him and they wont have to now that they have Thibault.

[kaos]

The writing was on the wall when they signed Thibault.

Besides the kid is only 20 years old. It boggles my mind when kids don't succeed at 18, 19, 20 years old, and people start calling them busts. I just don't understand that?

[BTH]

Originally posted by kaos

The writing was on the wall when they signed Thibault.

Besides the kid is only 20 years old.  It boggles my mind when kids don't succeed at 18, 19, 20 years old, and people start calling them busts.  I just don't understand that?

Didn't they sign Thibault for 3 years? And then they rate Caron ahead of him. And then there's Andy Chiodo who's a good goaltender. I'm sure he'll get his chance though. We'll see what he does with it.

Anyway, I think Price is a better goalie than Fleury and DiPietro. Probably also better than Lehtonen, Ward, Toivunen, Noronen, et al.

Fleury might be a good goalie but I doubt he'll ever pan out to be a #1 overall draft choice. Who else was in that draft? The Pens would probably love to have that one back.

[shortcat1]

Originally posted by Bulis_the_Habbie

Originally posted by kaos

The writing was on the wall when they signed Thibault.

Besides the kid is only 20 years old.  It boggles my mind when kids don't succeed at 18, 19, 20 years old, and people start calling them busts.  I just don't understand that?

Didn't they sign Thibault for 3 years? And then they rate Caron ahead of him. And then there's Andy Chiodo who's a good goaltender. I'm sure he'll get hzis chance though. We'll see what he does with it.

Anyway, I think Price is a better goalie than Fleury and DiPietro. Probably also better than Lehtonen, Ward, Toivunen, Noronen, et al.

Fleury might be a good goalie but I doubt he'll ever pan out to be a #1 overall draft choice. Who else was in that draft? The Pens would probably love to have that one back.

In the first round alone, the outstanding ones (that I'm aware of are: Thomas Vaneck, Dion Phaneuf, Andrei Kostsitsyn, Jeff Carter, Mike Richards, Zach Parizé, Eric Staal, etc.

[les_glorieux]

Fleury will be their #1 goalie and be amazing in 2 seasons. Easily.

[shortcat1]

Originally posted by kaos

The writing was on the wall when they signed Thibault.

Besides the kid is only 20 years old.  It boggles my mind when kids don't succeed at 18, 19, 20 years old, and people start calling them busts.  I just don't understand that?

I agree with you here. It's probably part of the 'short-term' gratification attitude of our generation. It's the 'hero of the day', '15 minutes of glory', 'the hot star of the moment' syndrome.

It may very well be that, in two or three years, Price will be passed by also.

[Howie_Morenz]

I agreed with beckham here. He will be toast because Pittsburg does not believe in defence and Fluery will suffer for this. 5 years down the road he will be on another team but developement time will be over and he will be an average goalie. Personally I thought he was overrated and I would have taken Dion Phaneuf.

Carey Price is another story as a few teams like Leafs really wanted him and were so smug with the thought they would get him with Such a deep draft.

All I can say is hahahahahaha to Leaf fans as the Habs have the best player available at the time they drafted.

I heard Brule is out for ????Weeks. Nothing like rushing in a rookie and hurting his career.

[redondo]

Remember also that Pittsburgh's focus has changed from before the lockout. They're a much older team now, and supposedly a contender. They can't live with inconsistent goaltending, in the AHL on the other hand there is no pressure on the kid. It's not necessarily a reflection on his play. Fleury will be a very good goalie some day, maybe even elite.

[shortcat1]

Originally posted by Howie_Morenz

I agreed with beckham here.  He will be toast because Pittsburg does not believe in defence and Fluery will suffer for this.  5 years down the road he will be on another team but developement time will be over and he will be an average goalie.  Personally I thought he was overrated and I would have taken Dion Phaneuf.

Carey Price is another story as a few teams like Leafs really wanted him and were so smug with the thought they would get him with Such a deep draft.

All I can say is hahahahahaha to Leaf fans as the Habs have the best player available at the time they drafted.

I heard Brule is out for ????Weeks.  Nothing like rushing in a rookie and hurting his career.

Oh so true. So sad, really, but true. Brulé may very well become a super impact player down the road but, on the other hand, he may end up being what his name means. :puke:

[simonus]

Originally posted by Bulis_the_Habbie

Originally posted by kaos

The writing was on the wall when they signed Thibault.

Besides the kid is only 20 years old.  It boggles my mind when kids don't succeed at 18, 19, 20 years old, and people start calling them busts.  I just don't understand that?

Didn't they sign Thibault for 3 years? And then they rate Caron ahead of him. And then there's Andy Chiodo who's a good goaltender. I'm sure he'll get hzis chance though. We'll see what he does with it.

aside from playing time issues, to a large extent Caron got the backup job because he has to pass through waivers and Fleury does not. The second they had free space for no.1 goalie they brought in Fleury. Last game's performance aside, I think Fleury will get the majority (or at least tandem) of time while he's up. He is very impressive to watch. He also has no defense in front of him. He is not yet consistent, but he has the tools.

Price very well might end up having the higher upside, and seems more consistent, but it is not a lock.

Don't write this guy off yet.

Oh, and Chiodo is really fun to watch. He doesn't butterfly as much as most guys nowadays - don't know if that is good, but it is entertaining.

[Edited on 10/15/2005 by simonus]

[BTH]

I saw Caron make a crazy stick save the other day. He dove across the crease and blocked the shot with his stick. It deflected up and then he knocked it out with his stick again. I think it was against Boston.

Anyway, I'd rather have Price.

[Dalhabs]

Didnt Luongo take a few years to develope as well?

[hankhab]

Its way to early to call the guy a bust, but there have been some indications that he might not be quite the goaltender he was projected to be....yes, Caron is ahead of him on the depth chart, although Pittsburgh may just prefer Fleury get more playing time in the AHL. More importantly, I felt his last world junior tournement wasn't as strong as his first one, that he actually regressed from one year to the next, and if thats the case, then maybe Pittsburgh should be a little worried. I often wonder about the wisdom of taking a goaltender with such early picks....lets hope Carey works out, eh?

[kaos]

Fleury is only 20. I think he should be given some time to develop. Maybe he has struggled a little this year, but so has Theodore, Khabibulan, Brodeur and a number of other number 1 goalies around the league.

Hes better off in the AHL, getting max playing time, and without the pressure whether he's playing well or not.

In three years, this guy will be the next Luongo, or maybe even better. I hope so anyways, I've got about 8 different rookie cards of his...lol

[MAK]

how long did it take to dipietro, theodore, belfour, hasek...in fact the only goalie I remember being that good at his age was roy. heck, even brodeur played in the ahl for a while.

fleury may never be the keeper everybody expected he would but he's still a great goalie and kudos to the pens to send him down for some ice time

goalies take time. price will be in the same position in a few years. I don't think we won't see price until he's 22-23

[shortcat1]

Originally posted by marky_and_komi

how long did it take to dipietro, theodore, belfour, hasek...in fact the only goalie I remember being that good at his age was roy. heck, even brodeur played in the ahl for a while.

fleury may never be the keeper everybody expected he would but he's still a great goalie and kudos to  the pens to send him down for some ice time

goalies take time. price will be in the same position in a few years. I don't think we won't see price until he's 22-23

Even Roy had his struggles in the year following the Stanley Cup (1987). Young goalies are young goalies... they still have to develop, even after a strong initial season.

:hlogo::ghg::hlogo:

1969 - graduated high school - went to university in Windsor - last teenage year

[Edited on 2005/10/21 by shortcat1]

[casseau]

I saw a lot of Theo his first three years in F'ton. Ouch. Same with Vokoun....anyone know what happened to Tarasov???