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The Chicoutimi Cucumber

Is Carbo a good coach?

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We've been circling around this question.

I have nothing but respect for Carbo and always believed that he would make a stellar NHL coach. However, I'm afraid I'm having my doubts based on these facts:

1. Total mismanagement of Samsonov, alienating him, irrationally benching him once his play started to improve, and leaving the Habs with egg on their face. That's a major player removed from the picture: unless there is a further move, I can't see how this is anything other than a stupid piece of asset management which gainey is now forced to mop up.

2. Benching Rivet - a hard worker and team leader, even when struggling - for no particular reason other than to 'send a message' (that hard work gets punished, apparently). Meanwhile, Kovalev and Ryder, who have both struggled AND floated for good chunks of the season, get a free ride.

3. The team continues to have problems with stupid penalties. Where the f**k is the discipline?

4. Good results with Plekanec, decent results with Lats, but no other sign of progress among the young players - meanwhile the admirable but ultimately irrelevant Mark Streit gets massive ice.

5. You have to at least question the team 'system' when we can't do squat 5 on 5, have constant trouble clearing the zone, and can't score.

I'm not saying Guy sucks - just that I'm increasingly worries that he might be closer to mario Tremblay than Scotty Bowman (or Bob Gainey, the best coach we've had since Pat Burns).

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Yes, he is ahead of last years pace. You guys need a reality check with the coaching.

4 coaches who coached the core have all been fired, and are now all in the playoffs. So is Carbo.

Start blaming the lazy slugs who never show up and score 1 goal a game.

Bowman, Keenan and Sutter couldn't get these guys to play hard.

STOP blaming the coach.

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I think he is, yes. But not outstanding. Something to take note if that most of the problems our team is suffering from (lack of discipline, etc), we had last season as well. Julien couldn't control them any better. I don't even think Gainey was (can't remember).

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I dunno about that Chris... I agree with a lot of Chicoutimi's points. I love and respect ol' Carbo, but he makes some bizarre decisions.

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Yes, but my point is he could have listed these points for the last 5 years and it would be the same. There have been 3 or 4 coaches in that time. Beleive me, it's the players.

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Yes, but my point is he could have listed these points for the last 5 years and it would be the same. There have been 3 or 4 coaches in that time. Beleive me, it's the players.

If it is the players then what is the coach for?

Why did Gainey turn a team around that was stinking the joint out for 2 months with Claude Julien the great coach of the Devils?

Maybe you coach to your players and not your system.

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Everyone's entitled to there position, I'll stand by my posts, this team with the current core will NEVER be anything but an 8 seed at best. This year they won't even make the playoffs. Beleive me i hate to say that vut i call them like i see them.

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Could it be it Montreal, I mean the atmosphere, I'm starting to wonder seriously what a coach has to do to make it in this town.

(well, 'that' town, I'm not there anymore, was speaking figuratively,)

Could it be:

1) Problem that the sports media is everywhere?

2) Problem that good pot is everywhere?

3) The fans are too fanatical/demanding?

4) Fault with the Habs organization, too big/bureaucratic?

5) Other?

Maybe Carbo can work though this and the Habs come out the better for it, let's hope :hlogo:

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Could it be it Montreal, I mean the atmosphere, I'm starting to wonder seriously what a coach has to do to make it in this town.

(well, 'that' town, I'm not there anymore, was speaking figuratively,)

Could it be:

1) Problem that the sports media is everywhere?

2) Problem that good pot is everywhere?

3) The fans are too fanatical/demanding?

4) Fault with the Habs organization, too big/bureaucratic?

5) Other?

Maybe Carbo can work though this and the Habs come out the better for it, let's hope :hlogo:

I think overating our talent is probably the biggest problem on this team.

This season began to fall apart when Huet stopped stealing wins.

And if he does not step up and steal us some wins down the stretch like he did last year.

Guess what, we willl be not watching playoff hockey this season.

We rode Huet and special teams for 3 months and now 2 of the 3 have disappeared.

12 PPG against in the last 6 games? If we had cut half of those out we would not be having

these discussions.

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I think Carbo is a good coach he has neer been a head coach betore and has his team fighting for home ice. Just be patient and him and Gainey will make the correct moveis.

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It's kind of surprising because of all the cred he should have, but Carbonneau does seem to be afraid of players a bit. Samsonov should have been benched in October, but because he whined, Carbonneau pulled him up from the fourth to the third before the game even started; this, it seems to me, gave too much leash to Samsonov, which ultimately led to the situation this week, where he feels justified in demanding a trade after being benched. Carbonneau benching him the second time was wrong only because he had conceded to Samsonov in October that his playing time related to Samsonov's reputation more than the coach's legitimate discretion to throw whatever lineup he wants on the ice for a given game.

I feel like the same thing happened in December where Niinimaa should have been given some more games but Carbo held back because the other 6 d puffed out their chest feathers. You're the help, fellas. Suck it up.

I think a lot of rookie coaches want to be the players' buddy, or at least the popular players' buddy. You can do this when you're an assistant coach, but it's a problem when you're the boss. I think Gainey's phenomenal record last spring had a little to do with the fact that he has no desire whatsoever to gain the players' approval (unlike nice guy Claude Julien, whom the players continue to love long after his firing), and so gained their fearful respect.

I also think Carbo is too wedded to set lines of players. I think this has finally changed a little with Streit and Johnson moving up, but I get the feeling once a given line has a good game, it gets stuck in Carbo's head. What did it take to break up Higgins-Ryder-Koivu? The Kovalev-Plekanec-Latendresse line will need a 20 game slump where none of them score to get broken up.

As for discipline, Carbonneau's broken-record complaining to the ref is the last thing that will inspire your players to not take penalties. I've been on benches where that kind of noise is constant, and it's demoralizing as anything. It's always an event when Carbonneau doesn't complain about a penalty - you get the feeling he would have complained about Perezhogin getting a penalty in the playoffs in Hamilton in '04.

That said, he's got great positives - to take the Habs to 4th place in February is impressive, especially when we're seeing these days how low on talent they can be. But he's got a lot of room for improvement.

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Carbo is a good coach ... not great, yet.

Samsonov desrves what he got ... he put himself before the team, and whinned too much.

We need a new center of 1 or 2nd line caliber to go with our Koivu 1/2 line caliber.

When we have two solid scoring lines, and Pleks and Bonk centering the other two lines, we will have a very nice and ballanced offence.

BTW, what are we talking about the current core of players? Rivet, Markov, and Koivu? Those are just about the only guys who have seen 4 coaches.

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For what it's worth, the over-exposed, over-excited Pierre McGuire thinks Carbo's doing a great job.

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For what it's worth, the over-exposed, over-excited Pierre McGuire thinks Carbo's doing a great job.

...but what does Dino Sisto have to say? :wacko:

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...but what does Dino Sisto have to say? :wacko:

If Dino Sisto thinks he should be fired, then it is pretty much set that he is doing a good job.

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Whatever happened to Sisto?

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5-8 seed is where this team ought to finish based on who they have. All offseason people kept talking about how the Habs should easily get home-ice. Those people were optimists who were ignoring the actual product we were going to be putting on the ice. All along I predicted a low playoff berth for this team because that is what they are. They overachieved for the first half of the season, and while they are coming back to Earth, other teams are rising. The Eastern Conference is tough this year, the difference between 4th and 9th is a mere 4 points.

Think about it. We've got no dominant player. We've got nobody who makes goalies tremble. Our leading goalscorer is a D-man who plays poor defence. Our D as a whole is average at best. This is a team that wins on effort and riding a hot goalie. Some stretches that is enough, some stretches it isn't. Samsonov didn't have the impact we wanted, so he's gone. He was brought it to provide offense, something he failed to do. I don't care if he player better on the third line, we gave him 3.5 million dollars to score goals, not stop them. Kovalev and Ryder have been around longer, so they've gotten more latitude. Now that Samsonov isn't around, the bullseye is on their backs and they know it. We'll see how they respond.

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As for discipline, Carbonneau's broken-record complaining to the ref is the last thing that will inspire your players to not take penalties. I've been on benches where that kind of noise is constant, and it's demoralizing as anything. It's always an event when Carbonneau doesn't complain about a penalty - you get the feeling he would have complained about Perezhogin getting a penalty in the playoffs in Hamilton in '04.
That's my biggest beef with Carbo. It sets a bad example for everyone else. Gives everyone a chance to blame bad results on "bad" refereeing.

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We've been circling around this question.

I have nothing but respect for Carbo and always believed that he would make a stellar NHL coach. However, I'm afraid I'm having my doubts based on these facts:

1. Total mismanagement of Samsonov, alienating him, irrationally benching him once his play started to improve, and leaving the Habs with egg on their face. That's a major player removed from the picture: unless there is a further move, I can't see how this is anything other than a stupid piece of asset management which gainey is now forced to mop up.

2. Benching Rivet - a hard worker and team leader, even when struggling - for no particular reason other than to 'send a message' (that hard work gets punished, apparently). Meanwhile, Kovalev and Ryder, who have both struggled AND floated for good chunks of the season, get a free ride.

3. The team continues to have problems with stupid penalties. Where the f**k is the discipline?

4. Good results with Plekanec, decent results with Lats, but no other sign of progress among the young players - meanwhile the admirable but ultimately irrelevant Mark Streit gets massive ice.

5. You have to at least question the team 'system' when we can't do squat 5 on 5, have constant trouble clearing the zone, and can't score.

I'm not saying Guy sucks - just that I'm increasingly worries that he might be closer to mario Tremblay than Scotty Bowman (or Bob Gainey, the best coach we've had since Pat Burns).

1) Agree

2) Still hard to see any benefits that could have been derived from benching Rivet.

3) Dysfonctionnal from the start, but we got better lately...from second worst overall to 6th worst.....wow!

4) The way Carbo have them playing the game nobody will ever look at their best offensivelly speaking.....

investing a little more on the two men forecheking would have been necessary to keep players in an

offensive shape.....it would also have helped us drawing more penaltys and gaining more PP opportunitys

(2th team with the fewest PPO in the league).....and score more goals in the end.

Personally I am a believer that speed and talent has to be exploited to the max in this league, substracting

Ribeiro had a rational to it yet it substracted the scoring depth of our team......did that shortchanged Carbs

confidence of going ahead with the puck pursuit plan he had said he would asked his team to play?......well

he stopped short from using the forward style of game that he was planning to use and neither Perezhogin

nor Samsonov where able to help in the process,....same for Garbovski.

Are we an offensive wasteland ? is Garbs and Kostitsyn next ?

5) The stats where showing us a FEW months ago that the team's positive standing was the reflection of only

two player's exceptional performances,...Huet and Souray,... or more broadly our goaltending and our PP.

Our positive standing had nothing to do with the behavior of our team, the stats still can demonstrated it

today.

We allow more shots than we numbered ourselves,......shots differenciel, a low 26th in the league.

We are a team allowing lots of shots against us,.... the 2th highest number in the league.

We have a bad penality record,.....6th worst in the L.

We have the second lowest number of PP in the L,...because we dont create enought offensive turbulences.

It seems to me that a re-direction of our efforts was in order at LEAST two months ago and shifting to a

more offensivelly agressive style of play was to be the answer.......pretty much like it happened last year under Gainey when he replaced Julien.

After all our record has showned this very season that when we have shifted into offensive mode we are

successfull.........we have the best record in the league for wins when entering the third trailing behind by a

a goal or two.

3 months ago Kovalev stated that the CH should be playing a more offensive style.

I wish that Carbo had taken notice unlike the journalistes that reported it........our 5 on 5 was in need of

a major overhaul but nothing took place......our standing was good so we stay the course.......when our

standing revealed problems.........we stayed the course........there was no signs anywhere that Carbo

was questionning his game plan and tossing aside the speedy talented garbovski made that clear to me...

Carbo was staying the course no matter what.......now with Perezhogin stunted and Samsonov goned.....

shifting to a more offensive style might be to late.......we have shoot ourselves in the foot.

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55 games does not a proper coach evaluation make...

give him a couple of seasons before you 'pull the trigger' or hoist the flag...

GO :hlogo: GO!

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Sure, he's a good coach. He's a bit too passionate, but I hardly would fault a coach for that. Sometimes his decisions tend to be a bit bizarre (see Sunday's lineup against Pittsburgh) but hey the team won that game anyway.

It's rather confusing that they're benching a young player like Perezhogin in favour for Downey or Murray and still warning not to expect too much from a younger team. If he's feeling disgusted with the top two scoring units and feels they can't get the job done, then give the young guys with potential more icetime. Don't give that icetime to veterans instead. Streit's done admirably, but a top line of Streit-Koivu-Johnson isn't going to scare anybody.

Ultimately, this year's edition of les glorieux depends entirely on the goaltending. Ho-hum, we've only been expecting this from Montreal teams for quite a number of years. It seemed like the team was different at the start of the year, but I guess not. For the team to make the transition to contender, they're going to have find players who score consistently.

I expect that Huet will get back in net and go on a bit of a roll to correct the ship a bit, and then everyone will be congratulating random forward who scored a goal or two instead of realizing that it was Huet saving the team all along. He was doing that earlier this year and everyone was convinced that the team was superb.

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Yes, he is ahead of last years pace. You guys need a reality check with the coaching.

4 coaches who coached the core have all been fired, and are now all in the playoffs. So is Carbo.

Start blaming the lazy slugs who never show up and score 1 goal a game.

Bowman, Keenan and Sutter couldn't get these guys to play hard.

STOP blaming the coach.

I have to agree with you here. Carbo may make some mistakes but he is pretty good. How many coaches do we need to fire (and move on to lead their new teams VERY well)?

5-8 seed is where this team ought to finish based on who they have. All offseason people kept talking about how the Habs should easily get home-ice. Those people were optimists who were ignoring the actual product we were going to be putting on the ice. All along I predicted a low playoff berth for this team because that is what they are. They overachieved for the first half of the season, and while they are coming back to Earth, other teams are rising. The Eastern Conference is tough this year, the difference between 4th and 9th is a mere 4 points.

Think about it. We've got no dominant player. We've got nobody who makes goalies tremble. Our leading goalscorer is a D-man who plays poor defence. Our D as a whole is average at best. This is a team that wins on effort and riding a hot goalie. Some stretches that is enough, some stretches it isn't. Samsonov didn't have the impact we wanted, so he's gone. He was brought it to provide offense, something he failed to do. I don't care if he player better on the third line, we gave him 3.5 million dollars to score goals, not stop them. Kovalev and Ryder have been around longer, so they've gotten more latitude. Now that Samsonov isn't around, the bullseye is on their backs and they know it. We'll see how they respond.

The most sensible thing I have read in a long time. An acurate and realistic view of our Habs

:hlogo:

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Maybe one day he will be a good coach.

The system of transition defense-offense simply sucks.

He used Koivu too much on PK resulting on Koivu offensive slump.

He plays Kovalev on PK, plain stupid.

He plays Rivet on the point on PP even though the guy is a total screw up this year.

He did not found a way to get production from Samsonov.

He is always saying that it is the players fault. Can he realize that he is part of the team and he makes mistake too and by taking responsability with his players he will become a good coach.

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Carbo has always been a thinking mans player. He had a great reputation as a defensive strategic assistant coach and he was recognized for his work in both Montreal and Dallas.

But, to me, he has always carried himself as a prima Donna. At the beginning of the year he was ranting and raving at calls, them he stopped and acted a lot calmer. Of course the team was playing well too. Great I thought, Gainey has talked to him and he is learning. Now he's back to screaming again and the quotes from him seem very egocentric. "I will do this". " I will do that". "He's not doing his job"......instead of saying the old team phrase "WE".

I am hoping he learns to get through this. He has a superb hockey mind but will he become a vain and temperamental Ego head like some coaches or a thinking strategizing positive influence on his players will have to be determined.

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He plays Kovalev on PK, plain stupid.

Do you really think he doesn't have a reason for that? Believe me, he doesn't play Kovalev there for his defensive expertise. And besides, Julien and Gainey also used Kovalev on the PK.

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