Something Wrong In The Dressing Room

[Athlétique.Canadien]

It's the dog days of winter. Things will turn around but maybe not as quickly as we want.

C'mon guys, hold .5 until mid-february

[brobin]

They have needed a top two center all season, the slump just highlights the hole, but it was obvious before.

Souray is one of the few weapons we have and is not nearly as bad defensively as some people make him out to be. I wouldn't sign him for too much, but i also would not dump him this year. If we are going to the playoffs, I want Souray on the team, not the opposition.

To me, this is the first real test of Carbo as a coach. When teams are struggling is when good coaches find a way to get them going again. I am watching with great anticipation to see how Carbo responds to this challenge.

Edited January 16, 2007 by brobin

[Colin]

Ask yourselves this simple question:

What is the difference between the Habs now and the fiery Habs that started the season?

Answer? Other than injuries to Bonk and Begin, nothing. Therefore, in all reality, a trade is not needed. Confidence and effort. They got away from what they were doing early on and as a result aren't playing nearly as well. This was an over-achieving team because they were a lunch-bucket crew early in the season. No one took a shift off. I remember after a handful of games that Perezhogin was 3rd on the team in hits. We've not hit anything in the last dozen games.

Simply put, it's time for the team to put on its working gloves and leave it out on the ice. We can continue to over-achieve with the talent we have now if we out-work the opposition night in and night out. The confidence will grow from the effort and it won't be long before we're racking up wins again.

Now the big question one has to pose the team is this:

Are you able to give the same effort you did early in the season?

[brobin]

Earlier in the season they didn't show up in the first, they had no 2nd line center, the defense couldn't clear it, and they rarely played a full 60 minutes. However, Higgins was hot, Souray was hot on the PP, and Bonk was able to shut down the big lines. Add a hot goalie, a few timely goals, and you got some wins they didn't deserve.

A trade is needed because all teams can improve. This team in not yet a contender. That said, we don't need anything drastic, just a decent center for the 2nd line.

I don't think this team is a bad as it looks right now, nor as good as it looked 2 months ago. Upgrades are needed if they want to challenge the Sabres, Sens, and Thrashers, among a couple other teams for top in the conference.

[JMMR]

Colin is right and this thread in some ways is correct as well. I am sure there are some problems in the dressing room but none that wont fade quickly with a few consecutive good efforts and wins. This team was close knit group at the begining of the season and when your losing no one is having fun.

[Mont Royale]

"Something wrong in the dressing room."

That's it! Perhaps:

1. When they disinfected it during the flu outbreak, they inadvertently killed off some of the old Forum ghosts, who had only recently started to find their way to the Bell Centre (they lingered at the Forum for a while to watch movies, since the Habs weren't that good at the time).

Or,

2. Only one shower is working. The guys are bitter at Kovalev, because he takes half an hour in there (he's such a pretty boy).

Fix the room, fix the team, I always say. B)

[OneSharpMarble]

Ask yourselves this simple question:

What is the difference between the Habs now and the fiery Habs that started the season?

Answer? Other than injuries to Bonk and Begin, nothing. Therefore, in all reality, a trade is not needed. Confidence and effort. They got away from what they were doing early on and as a result aren't playing nearly as well. This was an over-achieving team because they were a lunch-bucket crew early in the season. No one took a shift off. I remember after a handful of games that Perezhogin was 3rd on the team in hits. We've not hit anything in the last dozen games.

Even when we were good we weren't dominating anyone, we were squeeking through with one goal almost everytime. That sort of play will catch up to you sooner or later once something starts to give. This team needs a shake up to get rid of the complacency, everyone was happy so no one was pushing to get better and better, everyone was happy with the one goal wins why change?

I was saying this a long time ago on several forums how the bottom was going to fall out and we needed a shakeup/trade and people just kept spouting their statistics and nonsense. We didn't fix the problems we had when we were doing well so now the mid season slack has shown up and our problems doubled.

Simply put, it's time for the team to put on its working gloves and leave it out on the ice. We can continue to over-achieve with the talent we have now if we out-work the opposition night in and night out. The confidence will grow from the effort and it won't be long before we're racking up wins again.

Now the big question one has to pose the team is this:

Are you able to give the same effort you did early in the season?

We don't have the leadership to make half this team work let alone the whole team. The guys see that even if they play like shyt for 20 games they wont get demoted or punished. It's time to change that, we need to change the lines, waive some players, make one key trade by the deadline and bring in deserving rookies. This isn't a free ride, you either try every damn night or you will be run out of town on the first train.

Carbo needs to grow a spine or the guys wont work for him, it seems with waiving Murray he will be on the right track. Hopefully once we get this team working hard and well together we will still be in the hunt for a decent playoff spot.

[Chris]

Thanks Onesharpmarble, i have been saying for a long time this team has no pride, character and leadership. Until the core is ejected poor efforts, lazy play will be a part of the Habs.

I don't think waiving Murray is quit the response i was looking for. Benching a Kovalev, Rivet someone like that may do more. Benching Samsonov is not making much of a statement either. There are more higher priced players not cutting, not just him.

I would expect a great effort tonight but i'm sure i'll be let down. I hope i'm proven wrong.

[OneSharpMarble]

Thanks Onesharpmarble, i have been saying for a long time this team has no pride, character and leadership. Until the core is ejected poor efforts, lazy play will be a part of the Habs.

I don't think waiving Murray is quit the response i was looking for. Benching a Kovalev, Rivet someone like that may do more. Benching Samsonov is not making much of a statement either. There are more higher priced players not cutting, not just him.

I would expect a great effort tonight but i'm sure i'll be let down. I hope i'm proven wrong.

That would be a dream, seriously this is what we get for 4.5 million? I have to say Samsonov is out there going 100mph every night, I have trouble faulting him. Kovalev is a disaster, he is in 2nd gear most of the time if he even shows up and that has to have an effect on the rest of the team.

Don't get me wrong he is amazing, the tucker hit will go down in history and he can really come through big but I for one wont miss him when he retires. I think a trade is coming, we are past the point of no return now. I just hope to hell we dont trade higgins, perezhogin, streit or plekanec or any of the rookies and prospects. Ryder could go, he is really one dimensional, Samsonov or Rivet might be tossed into a deal.

I have said it before and I will say it again, I would rather lose with a bunch of untalented rookies giving a 100% than lose with a team of Kovalevs with no interest in the game at hand.

[Colin]

Even when we were good we weren't dominating anyone, we were squeeking through with one goal almost everytime. That sort of play will catch up to you sooner or later once something starts to give. This team needs a shake up to get rid of the complacency, everyone was happy so no one was pushing to get better and better, everyone was happy with the one goal wins why change?

I will agree, in part, with this statement. Not so much that we were squeaking wins, because I feel we played a very solid all-around game for much of the first stretch of the season. Rather, the complacency that has set in has become a malaise and about 85% of the team is affected right now. It's a telling problem when you see Koivu going out there, making big-time hits, and the rest of the team not responding to that.

I'd also becareful with the title of this thread - it's not really a problem in the dressing room that's implied, I don't think, so much as a coaching problem that needs to be addressed. I'll agree that Carbo is having his first real issue with the club. He's struggling to find solutions: first he tried to let them play through it by keeping everythign as is (a much better strategy, in my opinion, than flying off the handle); then he started juggling the lines here and there; finally he's moving to more drastic measures by benching players and, presumably, working with Gainey to waive players to make room.

If there's an issue with Carbo, it's not in his methods, but it's in his patience. The game today, unfortunately, is all about now, and not two weeks from now. Carbo's plan of action was proper and well-conceived, the issue is in the length of time he's taken to move through the stages. There's no doubt in my mind he'll learn from this and become a much better coach. If the players have been taking advantage, as could be perceived, he won't let it happen again.

I was saying this a long time ago on several forums how the bottom was going to fall out and we needed a shakeup/trade and people just kept spouting their statistics and nonsense. We didn't fix the problems we had when we were doing well so now the mid season slack has shown up and our problems doubled.

We don't have the leadership to make half this team work let alone the whole team. The guys see that even if they play like shyt for 20 games they wont get demoted or punished. It's time to change that, we need to change the lines, waive some players, make one key trade by the deadline and bring in deserving rookies. This isn't a free ride, you either try every damn night or you will be run out of town on the first train.

That the team would come to a tough section was predictable, for sure, but calling this "the bottom falling out" is, as I see it, a little extremist. There have been games within our poor spell where we actually played decent hockey, so it's not like a complete crumble. The talent is still there to win games if the effort is applied; the issue is more in the application of the latter on a consistent basis. Case in point? Take the third period of the Sens game. While not brilliant, by any stretch, it was, at least, a satisfactory way to end the game. And while it could be argued that Ottawa came out and coasted, the simple fact remains that Montreal improved their game for the third period. They were sharper and displayed more life than they had for the rest of the game. There's victory in itself in those actions.

Does this team need a trade for a second line centre - or perhaps a more reliable defender, as I see it - sure. It does. Heck, would this team benefit from any kind of significant roster move? Yes. There is, however, one point that many Habs fans are overlooking: we were not meant to contend for the Cup this year. Gainey has stated that - not overtly, but it's been between the lines. This is the next year in his plan to bring us the Cup by the club's centennial. If we won it this season, then hey, bonus round. Short of that bonus, however, the club is not prepared to sacrifice a very bright future for a "now" situation. The organization is well-placed and has plenty of assets, it's just a matter of having the patience in those assets so the entire package can come together.

I would hazard the guess that next season is going to be the first that Gainey would have actually expected this club to be a real challenger for the Cup. This season is about laying the foundation.

Carbo needs to grow a spine or the guys wont work for him, it seems with waiving Murray he will be on the right track. Hopefully once we get this team working hard and well together we will still be in the hunt for a decent playoff spot.

Carbo doesn't need to grow a spine. Carbo needs to just take the next step in his learning curve. He's doing all the right things, he just needs to learn to do them a little more quickly. I personally think he's going to be the best coach in Montreal since Pat Burns - who was the best since one Scotty Bowman. When he hits his stride, I think you'll see Carbo as that ultimate winner. His explosion last night certainly added to that potential.

We Canadiens fans, as a group, need to take a step back and remember that a season is not won in a two week period. The team is still in a playoff position even *after* a horrible two or three week period. How many other teams could say that? What's needed is a bit of patience from us while Carbo deals with his first major issue.

And remember also that, while we've only won 4 of the last 12, we've been close enough to have won 6 in 12, and I think if we go about .500 for the rest of the season, we're still a playoff team. This club isn't ready to shoot for the stars just yet; patience in the development of the product will give far better results over the long-term.

[smon]

The one thing I don't understand is how a Carbonneau coached team can be allowing the 2nd most shots per game in the entire NHL.

Being outshot all the time essentially means if the goaltender isn't having a great game, the team loses.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I will agree, in part, with this statement. Not so much that we were squeaking wins, because I feel we played a very solid all-around game for much of the first stretch of the season. Rather, the complacency that has set in has become a malaise and about 85% of the team is affected right now. It's a telling problem when you see Koivu going out there, making big-time hits, and the rest of the team not responding to that.

I'd also becareful with the title of this thread - it's not really a problem in the dressing room that's implied, I don't think, so much as a coaching problem that needs to be addressed. I'll agree that Carbo is having his first real issue with the club. He's struggling to find solutions: first he tried to let them play through it by keeping everythign as is (a much better strategy, in my opinion, than flying off the handle); then he started juggling the lines here and there; finally he's moving to more drastic measures by benching players and, presumably, working with Gainey to waive players to make room.

If there's an issue with Carbo, it's not in his methods, but it's in his patience. The game today, unfortunately, is all about now, and not two weeks from now. Carbo's plan of action was proper and well-conceived, the issue is in the length of time he's taken to move through the stages. There's no doubt in my mind he'll learn from this and become a much better coach. If the players have been taking advantage, as could be perceived, he won't let it happen again.

That the team would come to a tough section was predictable, for sure, but calling this "the bottom falling out" is, as I see it, a little extremist. There have been games within our poor spell where we actually played decent hockey, so it's not like a complete crumble. The talent is still there to win games if the effort is applied; the issue is more in the application of the latter on a consistent basis. Case in point? Take the third period of the Sens game. While not brilliant, by any stretch, it was, at least, a satisfactory way to end the game. And while it could be argued that Ottawa came out and coasted, the simple fact remains that Montreal improved their game for the third period. They were sharper and displayed more life than they had for the rest of the game. There's victory in itself in those actions.

Does this team need a trade for a second line centre - or perhaps a more reliable defender, as I see it - sure. It does. Heck, would this team benefit from any kind of significant roster move? Yes. There is, however, one point that many Habs fans are overlooking: we were not meant to contend for the Cup this year. Gainey has stated that - not overtly, but it's been between the lines. This is the next year in his plan to bring us the Cup by the club's centennial. If we won it this season, then hey, bonus round. Short of that bonus, however, the club is not prepared to sacrifice a very bright future for a "now" situation. The organization is well-placed and has plenty of assets, it's just a matter of having the patience in those assets so the entire package can come together.

I would hazard the guess that next season is going to be the first that Gainey would have actually expected this club to be a real challenger for the Cup. This season is about laying the foundation.

Carbo doesn't need to grow a spine. Carbo needs to just take the next step in his learning curve. He's doing all the right things, he just needs to learn to do them a little more quickly. I personally think he's going to be the best coach in Montreal since Pat Burns - who was the best since one Scotty Bowman. When he hits his stride, I think you'll see Carbo as that ultimate winner. His explosion last night certainly added to that potential.

We Canadiens fans, as a group, need to take a step back and remember that a season is not won in a two week period. The team is still in a playoff position even *after* a horrible two or three week period. How many other teams could say that? What's needed is a bit of patience from us while Carbo deals with his first major issue.

And remember also that, while we've only won 4 of the last 12, we've been close enough to have won 6 in 12, and I think if we go about .500 for the rest of the season, we're still a playoff team. This club isn't ready to shoot for the stars just yet; patience in the development of the product will give far better results over the long-term.

I nominate this for post of the year.

[shortcat1]

After the recent slide, it's become apparent to me that we are not the victims of bad luck in this losing streak. The guys aren't trying, there's a lot of unforced errors and no one's skating. The guys just look disinterested - and that's all that matters at this level because everyone's talented. It's just a matter of who wants it more. And our guys DO NOT WANT IT.

My take on the situation is that something is awry in the dressing room. And the only thing that comes to mind is how the second line has not been broken up (i.e. Sammy and Kovy) regardless of the fact that they get 20min of ice a night and do not put points on the board. In doing so, they are taking minutes from the other guys who want to contribute and make a difference. While this may have been tolerated for the first 40 games, I fear that the camel's back has been broken.

End result - if Carbo does not change the system, he will lose the dressing room.

i can't believe that... no player does not want to win...

i know what you mean i was at the ottawa game and it seemed that every mistake that was made cost them... it's like what can go wrong has been going wrong with them on a pretty consistent basis...

i'd say that this is simply a slump that's going to have to be toughed out and played through... better now than in april

GO :hlogo: GO!

[sbhatt]

better now than in april

Very true.