BCHabnut Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Okay, Carbo was elite when it came to shot blocking. Why the crap aren't we number 1 as a team for blocked shots? With the passive D that we play, there are tonnes of shots from the outside, because nobody can get inside, but these guys have to learn to block shots. I know it's suicide, but if it's done correctly, it's safer than it looks. I better see a lot more blocked friggen shots next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Yeah, we could use another shot-blocking specialist like Begin. Our other defensive forwards, like Bonk, rely more on their great stickwork and positioning than the diving in front of flying pucks side of hockey. It's unfair to blame Carbo for this though. Courage is not something that is possible to teach. I'm not calling guys our forwards "pussies" or anything like that - just that this is one of those things that's tehre in your instincts - either you have it or you don't. Begin's reaction to seeing rubber disks zooming off of men's sticks is to dive in front of it, other guys, possibly players who play more rationally than emotionally, their reactions would be to jump out of the way or to simply try knocking it down with their stick. Carbonneau cannot force someone to risk their health and get in the way of a 100 mph slapshot. Would you do it? But I agree that our shot-blocking is not great and that it can be a big part of your team's game, especially if you play a defensive style like we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenadian Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Maybe it's a combination of the "system" we're playing..........we're playing zone when we should be playing man-on-man and not give the other team's players room to skate/shoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Well it is not forwards who need to block more shots it is the defenseman, there is not a single forward in the top 100 shot blocker's in the league. Anton Volchenkov (OTT) is unbelievable in this regard. I would not mind the Habs going out and signing Andy Sutton from Atlanta if he were available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Well it is not forwards who need to block more shots it is the defenseman, there is not a single forward in the top 100 shot blocker's in the league. Anton Volchenkov (OTT) is unbelievable in this regard. I would not mind the Habs going out and signing Andy Sutton from Atlanta if he were available. Well defenceman sit in front of the net, so of course more shots will hit them, there's more time to react, the puck hits them with less momentum so it's less gutsy plus, most importantly, they do not have the decision of having to dive, sometimes head first, into a cannon that can seriously hurt them and even end their careers. The defenceman do the majority of the job, but teams (and their PK) really start improving when their forwards are shutting down the shooting lanes as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobRock Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Two reasons, maybe three, why there's no more shot blockers like there was when Carbo played. First, no one knows how to do it correctly, or at least not many. Carbo was famous for dropping flat in front of the shooter, and getting his shinpads in the path of the shooter, but he had the added ability to time the shooters, and wasn't as likely to get faked, then have the shooter walk around. A lot of today's blockers are coming out at the shooter, while Carbonneau didn't do that as often. He'd take away the shooting lane from a reasonable distance, but he wouldn't attack the shooter. Second, you have a lot more top line players killing penalties, and coaches don't want their offensive players getting hurt blocking shots. Begin can throw himself in front of shots all night long, it's a job he's expected to do. What would happen if Koivu, Ryder, Souray, Higgins etc, broke an ankle, took a shot off the knee or the top of the foot, blocking a shot on the PK unit? The place would go up. And those guys make a lot of dough, so they may not be as willing to take that risk. Third, and I don't know how prevalent this is around the league, but there's goalies who don't want the skaters to block shots for them. Ed Belfour was like that, and I think Marty Turco is the same way to an extent, but Martin Brodeur could care less if he ever saw a shot from the blue line reach him. There's also been a change in many team's penalty killing strategy from a box formation to a diamond, with one player covering the blue line. This means that you put a defenseman on one man along the half boards, preferably against the most dangerous shooter in that position. That's usually a defenceman, and it gives them more opportunities to block shots. They used to concentrate mainly on the play down low and keeping the front of the net free of screens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revin5 Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 Bonk, without lying down that I can remember, blocked 77 shots this year, 3rd most for a forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted April 14, 2007 Share Posted April 14, 2007 Well if you're watching TSN right now you'd see that Hasek and Roy both hate players blocking shots. According to Martin Biron (who likes having shots blocked), when teammate Drury played in Colorado, Roy would yell at him each time he blocked a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 yeah maybe Huet doesn't like shots being blocked or its a case of 'it hurts' syndrome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 In 2002, when the Habs were giving up 45 shots a night consistently, I remember HNIC said they had spoken to Carbo (then an assistant) about the fact that the Habs don't block shots. He said he tried to get players to do it, but that you simply can't teach guys to want to do it. Some clubs manage to make that a more important skill and part of a team's identity. If you want to do it, start right at training camp and practice it a lot. Craig MacTavish has run blocked shot drills for years and Edmonton is really good at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Bonk, without lying down that I can remember, blocked 77 shots this year, 3rd most for a forward. I think it's more effective to block standing up anyways. if they guy at the point is winding up and you get your kneepads in his face, and he shoots anyways, it'll bounce out of the zone and you'll be way ahead of the dman. That's how the habs get so many short handed goals, and how many times have we seen the habs get in big trouble when a genius like markov or dandanault tries to shoot on net with a checker standing right in front of him? If you jump in front of the shot to block it the dman is probably just going to get it back before you get up when it comes loose. It certainly is spectacular and ballsy, but you're taking yourself out of the play when you do it so it's riskier too. Throwing yourself to the ice is actually more effective for blocking a pass than a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 I think it's more effective to block standing up anyways. if they guy at the point is winding up and you get your kneepads in his face, and he shoots anyways, it'll bounce out of the zone and you'll be way ahead of the dman. That's how the habs get so many short handed goals, and how many times have we seen the habs get in big trouble when a genius like markov or dandanault tries to shoot on net with a checker standing right in front of him? If you jump in front of the shot to block it the dman is probably just going to get it back before you get up when it comes loose. It certainly is spectacular and ballsy, but you're taking yourself out of the play when you do it so it's riskier too. Throwing yourself to the ice is actually more effective for blocking a pass than a shot. The downside of standing up to block a shot is that it covers less space (you're generally close enough to the shooter that he won't shoot it over your body when lying down) and it makes it more difficult for the goaltender to see the shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortcat1 Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Okay, Carbo was elite when it came to shot blocking. Why the crap aren't we number 1 as a team for blocked shots? With the passive D that we play, there are tonnes of shots from the outside, because nobody can get inside, but these guys have to learn to block shots. I know it's suicide, but if it's done correctly, it's safer than it looks. I better see a lot more blocked friggen shots next year. hmmm.... mixed up scenarios here... on the one hand "I know it's it's suicide" and "it's safer than it looks"... i know that this sounds like nitpicking but what the heck... also, why do we have to be 1st in shots blocked? i wonder, are the coaches satisfied with the shot blocking rate of the team? if they are (and it's that "elite" Carbo that we're talking about), then we have nothing to complain about except for the enjoyment of complaining. GO :hlogo: GO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneHABSfan Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Blocked shots reduce scoring threats. Any hockey player that can perform this task has my admiration as it is something I would not be brave enough to do. If the Habs could block 5 shots per game (sorry I don't know what they actually blocked this year) I think the winning % would improve. This just my theory/opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 All i know is that the other teams always look to block more shot than we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 In 2002, when the Habs were giving up 45 shots a night consistently, I remember HNIC said they had spoken to Carbo (then an assistant) about the fact that the Habs don't block shots. He said he tried to get players to do it, but that you simply can't teach guys to want to do it. Exactly. You can't blame the coach - this is something that you cannot teach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Blocked shots reduce scoring threats. Any hockey player that can perform this task has my admiration as it is something I would not be brave enough to do. If the Habs could block 5 shots per game (sorry I don't know what they actually blocked this year) I think the winning % would improve. This just my theory/opinion. Habs blocked an avg. of about 15 shots per game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobRock Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Exactly. You can't blame the coach - this is something that you cannot teach. You can teach them to do it correctly, but tou can't teach them to want to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre the Great Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 I think it's more effective to block standing up anyways. if they guy at the point is winding up and you get your kneepads in his face, and he shoots anyways, it'll bounce out of the zone and you'll be way ahead of the dman. That's how the habs get so many short handed goals, and how many times have we seen the habs get in big trouble when a genius like markov or dandanault tries to shoot on net with a checker standing right in front of him? If you jump in front of the shot to block it the dman is probably just going to get it back before you get up when it comes loose. It certainly is spectacular and ballsy, but you're taking yourself out of the play when you do it so it's riskier too. Throwing yourself to the ice is actually more effective for blocking a pass than a shot. I like superman dives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 You can teach them to do it correctly, but tou can't teach them to want to do it. You can if you start fining them... Habs blocked an avg. of about 15 shots per game. Where'd you find that stat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneHABSfan Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Habs blocked an avg. of about 15 shots per game. Wow, that is actually more than I thought they did. OK, then why is the Habs defence so weak that the other teams get tons of shots on the Habs net? Do the forwards not backcheck? Ooops, my bad... Samsonov-Kovalev... I answered my own question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Wow, that is actually more than I thought they did. OK, then why is the Habs defence so weak that the other teams get tons of shots on the Habs net? Do the forwards not backcheck? Ooops, my bad... Samsonov-Kovalev... I answered my own question. The Habs allowed a lot of shots becuse of the style they played, and how it did not suit the players they hav eon thier team. Carbonneau made them sit back way to often. The Habs are built for speed and should be consistantly be forechecking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneHABSfan Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 (edited) The Habs allowed a lot of shots becuse of the style they played, and how it did not suit the players they hav eon thier team. Carbonneau made them sit back way to often. The Habs are built for speed and should be consistantly be forechecking. From what I saw last season you would be 100% correct. This year they collapsed faster than melting butter on toast into their own net; while last year they really challenged and pushed the puck. I hope this changes as Carbonneau has proved he is not the most gifted offensive coach and should seek help to create offensive plays. No harm in getting help to rectify a weakness. Edited April 18, 2007 by InsaneAVSfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortHanded Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 The Habs allowed a lot of shots becuse of the style they played, and how it did not suit the players they hav eon thier team. Carbonneau made them sit back way to often. The Habs are built for speed and should be consistantly be forechecking. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let Carbo change the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted April 18, 2007 Author Share Posted April 18, 2007 hmmm.... mixed up scenarios here... on the one hand "I know it's it's suicide" and "it's safer than it looks"... i know that this sounds like nitpicking but what the heck... also, why do we have to be 1st in shots blocked? i wonder, are the coaches satisfied with the shot blocking rate of the team? if they are (and it's that "elite" Carbo that we're talking about), then we have nothing to complain about except for the enjoyment of complaining. GO :hlogo: GO! My bad. I should have said, It's safer than it looks when performed correctly. The reason the "forwards should block shots is that many key goals were scored from outside, bouncing off players standing in front of the net. I should also have been more specific by saying that they could block shots like Carbo did. Stay back so the player won't fake and skate around you, drop and block with the shin pads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.