Kovalev not interested in returning to Montreal,

[brobin]

I view Kovalev as the "Canary in the mine". Yes, he is whining and perhaps needs to go because of it (die). But don't ignore what he is whining about.

I think it is clear that there are problems on the team and that Carbo is a big part of the problem. Perez is going back to russia, Kovalev is unhappy, Sammy wanted out after a couple of weeks, Rivet was upset and shocked to be benched, etc.

Perhaps we just have a team of malcontents, but the more likely explanation to me is that there is a big problem and these are just the guys speaking out. For all we know, Koivu is just as pissed (when is the last time he mentioned leaving the Habs if they were rebuilding?) but Koivu is more diplomatic about it.

It might very well be that we will all have to thank Kovalev next year if the result of all this is that the problems get resolved, not just covered up. I suspect that Kovalev is taking the fall for all of this, but I seriously doubt he is just whining for the fun of it...

[Nilan]

I view Kovalev as the "Canary in the mine". Yes, he is whining and perhaps needs to go because of it (die). But don't ignore what he is whining about.

I think it is clear that there are problems on the team and that Carbo is a big part of the problem. Perez is going back to russia, Kovalev is unhappy, Sammy wanted out after a couple of weeks, Rivet was upset and shocked to be benched, etc.

Perhaps we just have a team of malcontents, but the more likely explanation to me is that there is a big problem and these are just the guys speaking out. For all we know, Koivu is just as pissed (when is the last time he mentioned leaving the Habs if they were rebuilding?) but Koivu is more diplomatic about it.

It might very well be that we will all have to thank Kovalev next year if the result of all this is that the problems get resolved, not just covered up. I suspect that Kovalev is taking the fall for all of this, but I seriously doubt he is just whining for the fun of it...

you're right. the old guys were/are pissed. if we won the cup last year, id be concerned. they didnt, im not.

gainey and carbo are implementing change, and have to deal with those who don't like it. simple as that

[sakiqc]

Message for Kovalev and co.: If you're going to play for the Canadiens, you're going to need to care about the team and give your 500%. It's too much to ask? You prefer to give your 100% unnoticed in another city? Well you're not fit for Montreal. Sorry.

[Chris]

Yep Nilan, i totally agree, it's timefor for the whinners, soft vets, people who don't want to be here to get out. It's about time someone(Carbo) called these guys out, i said it yesterday and it still holds true, the only things that happened in the past was the coaches got canned, now when the players have to prove themselves and play hard they can't fit the bill. That is squarly on the players.

How about the kids, they aren't whinning, Kosty got sent down and told to play harder, what did he do, he did it and played very well. Pleks who everyone complained about had a really good year putting up as much points and more then Samsonov and Kovalev. Komi a solid year. Higgins was good when he wasn't hurt. Lapierre and Lats good rookie years.

Only the core is bitching and i for one am sick of it, they can all leave including Koivu. The have never been anything but an 8 seed missing the playoffs numerous times.

The team needs to hit rock bottom before they get better and i hope there is as cleansing of the core and whinners.

Someone mentioned Rivet, he gets sat once, cries about it, leaves the building, that says alot about him. Perhaps it was his play that got him benched.

[Chris]

Sakiqc, if you think players like ZKovalev and i can name numerous others give a 100% everynight you must be delusional. I think most fans would be happy with a 100% effort, these lazy slugs did it maybe a handfull of games this year.

It's a good thing for the players it's guarenteed money, not production and effort, there would be a lot of broke Canadiens.

[brobin]

I think you guys are being one sided. So everyone who is unhappy is a whining vet, soft, and should get out of Montreal?

Seems to me that all of those guys have been in the dog house before, but they were never that upset. I maintain that it is HOW Carbo does it that needs to be fixed. We can't run every vet out of town because Carbo doesn't know how to talk to them.

And Perez just signed a contract in Russia. Doesn't sound like he wants to stick around either.

I agree that we should be trading away some of these vets and upgrading the team, but Carbo driving players away just reduces what we get back in return and makes it very difficult for Gainey to attract free agents.

Trust me, in the long run, it is the Habs that will suffer. I doubt anyone is lining up to play for this team right now.

[Chris]

Brobin, i think the 2 sides or whatever you want to call it just have different views on the problems with this team not contending in 10 years. It's ridiculous. I do think Gainey is righting the ship. Just a year or 2 longer then i had hoped.

You said the players who are whining were in the doghouse before. I would totally disagree, the last 5 coaches had this core and there was never consequences to there awfull play and effort. The coaches got canned. This is fact.

Your side also blames Carbo, the few on my side say it's about time these lazy slugs who never produce lose icetime and get sat down. If you can honestly tell me what the vets or core have accomplished i would be impressed. The fact is they have done nothing.

If players don't want to be a habs, that's fine with me, this team needs to add character, grit, size and work ethic. Without that, it's not going to matter who is on the roster. This is what Carbo is trying to change.

Well i think that sums up the few of us who hold the players accountable see it.

[ShortHanded]

I think you guys are being one sided. So everyone who is unhappy is a whining vet, soft, and should get out of Montreal?

Seems to me that all of those guys have been in the dog house before, but they were never that upset. I maintain that it is HOW Carbo does it that needs to be fixed. We can't run every vet out of town because Carbo doesn't know how to talk to them.

And Perez just signed a contract in Russia. Doesn't sound like he wants to stick around either.

I agree that we should be trading away some of these vets and upgrading the team, but Carbo driving players away just reduces what we get back in return and makes it very difficult for Gainey to attract free agents.

Trust me, in the long run, it is the Habs that will suffer. I doubt anyone is lining up to play for this team right now.

agreed.

Brobin, i think the 2 sides or whatever you want to call it just have different views on the problems with this team not contending in 10 years. It's ridiculous. I do think Gainey is righting the ship. Just a year or 2 longer then i had hoped.

You said the players who are whining were in the doghouse before. I would totally disagree, the last 5 coaches had this core and there was never consequences to there awfull play and effort. The coaches got canned. This is fact.

Your side also blames Carbo, the few on my side say it's about time these lazy slugs who never produce lose icetime and get sat down. If you can honestly tell me what the vets or core have accomplished i would be impressed. The fact is they have done nothing.

If players don't want to be a habs, that's fine with me, this team needs to add character, grit, size and work ethic. Without that, it's not going to matter who is on the roster. This is what Carbo is trying to change.

Well i think that sums up the few of us who hold the players accountable see it.

Chris, I want the lazy guys gone, but I don't want the issues in the dressing room... Perogie is not a lazy bum, so it's not just Sammy and Kovy who have upset Carbo... He's put other people in his dog house and given them no chance for reasons no one else can see sometimes... and at the end of the day, players considering coming may not remember all the details of why Carbo puts someone in the doghouse but just that he drives ppl away, even the hardworking players we all want to stay on the team / consider playing for the team...

[sbhatt]

Wake up, people...the writing is really on the wall with Perezhogin signing in Russia: Carbonneau is killing the team!

I fully expect Markov to sign elsewhere now.

Damn shame.

[Chris]

I think the drama in the dressing room is a little overblown. I'm not saying there are issues but i am sure there are issues everywhere just not blown up like the Habs fans and media.

I think you'll find players will come if the price is right and the Habs start winning. I think players know about everyone's doghouse.

I'm not Carbo is anything close but Bowman was a slave driver and people were lining upt o play for that guy.

[Fanpuck33]

Wake up, people...the writing is really on the wall with Perezhogin signing in Russia: Carbonneau is killing the team!

Come on, Zhog signing in Russia means nothing. Lots of Russian players do this these days. "You guys better give me money and make me happy, cause I already have a contract waiting for me at home." It means almost nothing.

[sbhatt]

Bowman was a slave driver and people were lining upt o play for that guy.

He had a resume with a whole lot of Stanley Cup wins as a coach...a far cry from Guy.

[Chris]

If Markov goes he goes. More money to be spent else where. This current roster isn't going anywhere.

The world is not ending if Perez doesn't resign. Same for Souray and Markov.

I wasn't comparing the 2, just that they expect hard work.

[Mont Royale]

I view Kovalev as the "Canary in the mine". Yes, he is whining and perhaps needs to go because of it (die). But don't ignore what he is whining about.

Make up your mind, analogy-man - either Kovalev's a senior designer, or a canary!

Jokes aside, I agree with what you're saying. I still hope that Kovalev can come back and accept Carbonneau as the coach, and give top effort to the team (or better than this year, anyway). At the same time, I hope this season has proved to be a learning experience for Carbonneau, and he develops new methods of handling the veteran players.

Putting aside whether anyone agrees or disagrees with Carbo's decision to bench/demote Samsonov/Kovalev, he certainly owed them an explanation. All players, regardless of the level, need to know how they're not meeting the coach's expectations. Expecting improvement is unrealistic if that doesn't happen.

If Markov goes he goes. More money to be spent else where. This current roster isn't going anywhere.

The world is not ending if Perez doesn't resign. Same for Souray and Markov.

I wasn't comparing the 2, just that they expect hard work.

A player of Markov's calibre doesn't grow on trees - and teams that have them don't like them to become available to other teams. I know you're constantly calling Gainey to "blow up the core", but a sense of stability with at least some of the veterans is necessary... as probably every Cup winning team demonstrates.

[Chris]

The only thing stable with the Habs since 93 is the 8-11 seed.

I would love Markov to stay, BG will give him what he deserves and i think he will resign.

I'm making the point if UFA's go, they go. You CAN NOT overspend in the new salary cap era. (see Kovalev and Samsonov)

[ShortHanded]

The only thing stable with the Habs since 93 is the 8-11 seed.

I would love Markov to stay, BG will give him what he deserves and i think he will resign.

I'm making the point if UFA's go, they go. You CAN NOT overspend in the new salary cap era. (see Kovalev and Samsonov)

I don't think sbhatt was saying overspend for Markov, I think he was saying he might not sign because of the way Carbo seems to have issues with the Russian Players: Kovy brought it on himself, Sammy also did up to ap point, but Perogie just got mistreated for no reason.

I hope Markov resigns too, and he's publicly stated he wants to stay here, so I don't think he's too affected by what's going on with the rest of the Russians, but I still can't help but be a little worried. I remember in an article early this season, Perogie said him and Markov were close...

[habs rule]

He had a resume with a whole lot of Stanley Cup wins as a coach...a far cry from Guy.

as I recall Bowman (one of the best coaches ever) did not have any stanley cups untill he came to Montreal. A little hint for you he coached expansion st louis and lost in the fnals every year. when he went to buffalo after montreal he was not successful in any way and was fired. He has won his cups with talent loaded teams in Montreal and Detroit and Pitts when bob died. I am not in any way denigrating one of my great heros but for christ sake give carbo a chance. He has a talent limited team with vets who are not leading. they havent for any other coach either. You can't win a lottery unless you buy a ticket and you can't be the best coach until you have some experience. How were you in the first year of your career? not nec adressed to you personally but to the forum in general . give guy some time. he's bright he'll learn. And we will win the cup.

Edited April 28, 2007 by habs rule

[brobin]

I have seen some pretty smart Canaries in my time...

In any case, I don't think Carbo has to go, just that he better learn in a hurry. Scotty Bowman treated everyone the same and he had a way of benching a guy that didn't make them want to leave. He also had the respect of the players.

Carbo has to earn that respect first, then he might have some sway with the players. In the meantime, he better learn to communicate and make this a team that pulls together, not apart.

[habs rule]

I have seen some pretty smart Canaries in my time...

In any case, I don't think Carbo has to go, just that he better learn in a hurry. Scotty Bowman treated everyone the same and he had a way of benching a guy that didn't make them want to leave. He also had the respect of the players.

Carbo has to earn that respect first, then he might have some sway with the players. In the meantime, he better learn to communicate and make this a team that pulls together, not apart.

I realize that carbo may have made mistakes but he will get better . to say fire him after 1 year is crap imho

[Nesquik]

You guys are hilarious.

[JoeLassister]

Wake up, people...the writing is really on the wall with Perezhogin signing in Russia: Carbonneau is killing the team!

I fully expect Markov to sign elsewhere now.

Damn shame.

calm down with the killing thing. we're not talking about trading Roy...

anyway there are 30 Perez among the league, we won't miss him at all.

[sbhatt]

calm down with the killing thing. we're not talking about trading Roy...

anyway there are 30 Perez among the league, we won't miss him at all.

If there is a Russian revolt against Carbo, it could get a lot worse than just losing Perezhogin. It could mean Emelin and Valentenko choose to stay in Russia until the Habs lose rights on them. With the glaring weakness on the blueline, The Habs can hardly afford to lose D prospects.

[jordi]

So has everyone concluded whether it's Carbonneau or Kovalev causing sports terrorism?

[Athlétique.Canadien]

If his "role" changes or if his "roll" changes?

If it's a "roll", here is the answer:

He can also retire the axe and use this in his new "role".

[smon]

I hope Kovalev makes you all eat your words next year.

Yeah Sykora did good for playing limited minutes.

So would I if he sticks around in Montreal, but wake up and smell the coffee. Kovalev's not exactly a spring chicken, it's to be expected that he continues to decline. Don't give me any comparisons to a guy like say Teemu Selanne who had one bad year and bounced back, because Kovalev was never a similar player.

Gainey signed him despite his inconsistencies because Kovalev was the best option at the time. If he could provide around a point per game he'd be a key asset - but he's just shown through this year that he can't. Maybe that wouldn't be such a bad thing if he wasn't always seeming to be running his mouth off. But the fact is he does, the fact is he's not a high level talent anymore and the fact is that the Canadiens would be glad to be rid of him.

But the catch-22 in all of this is lack of a better option. Sure, Gainey might like to unload Kovalev and use the cap room on some hypothetical free agent or trade acquistion, but the market for a veteran enigma due 4.5M/yr on a longterm deal isn't going to be much and so we may just be seeing him back next year.

The Blame Carbonneau bandwagon is ridiculous. Yes, it must be the coach's fault that his team refuses to even put forward even simple basic effort every night. Well, look at the coaches the team has run through over the years - it's obvious that the players have to take some of the blame.