Jagr defends Kovalev and Samsonov

[Tony]

Surprised no one posted this so far.

Apparently Jagr said Carbo is the one to blame in the whole Samsonov - Kovalev situation in Montreal.

Article is in French for now but I'm sure a translated version in English will appear soon.

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20070428...1006/CPSPORTS01

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/228108.html

[sakiqc]

Surprised no one posted this so far.

Apparently Jagr said Carbo is the one to blame in the whole Samsonov - Kovalev situation in Montreal.

Article is in French for now but I'm sure a translated version in English will appear soon.

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20070428...1006/CPSPORTS01

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/228108.html

Pretty interesting article. Jagr even asked questions about Plekanec and Perezhogin. Nice for those 2. Jagr is probably true, but I'm glad the Canadiens are not bending before Kovalev. They should have known better before giving him this huge contract.

Jagr said about Kovalev: (free translation)

"What's more important for Kovalev is not to score goals or get points, but deke players 1 on 1. He can deke anyone. He's an artist like a figure skater. When Lemieux had bad nights, at least he passed the puck to his linemates and finished the game with 4 assists. Kovalev doesn't have this asset. He'll never get 90 points again."

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Jagr?

Look at 2002 when he was with the Pens. Lemieux had to grab him by the scruf of the neck to tell him to get his butt in gear and then he had that episode with the Shirley Temple child mask. This was during the conference's final game and Jagr quits?

Shut up Jaromir. He may be totally right but he should mind his own business.

PS. Jagr, enjoy your approaching tee time. IT'S COMING

Edited April 28, 2007 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[KoZed]

Of course Jagr will side with players like himself, ie. talented prima donas who care more about their own little ego than their team's success.

No surprises here.

Team cohesion wins Stanley Cups. Always been true, always will.

[CoRvInA]

It takes one to know one!

I believe in all that Jagr says!... and that its true! I for one am for letting those two have it alla prima donna ...

the thing is are the habs ready to do so... or are they in the conditions to do so... the style of coaching Jagr preaches for the two Russians fits more the Buffalo Sabres or the Senateurs or whatever Talent rich club with a solid nucleus and profound depth chart. The habs of last season never had that..

if they do get talent and pick up UFA's that will build on what ever is savable in the Habs roster next season then I would be for trying the Jagr method... if not then its a waste of time and we should trade the two for everyone's sake

[lazy26]

While it's obvious that Carbo could have handled Sammy and Kovy's situations better, the fact remains that THEY created those situations with their play and are equally or more so to blame.

And as for Jagr, he's an amazingly talented player, but he is a prima donna, and as for his opinion of our team, I couldn't care less what ole Puff Nuts has to say.

[revin5]

We should be playing Buffalo style, that's what we were best at all year.

[Pierre the Great]

Pretty interesting article. Jagr even asked questions about Plekanec and Perezhogin. Nice for those 2. Jagr is probably true, but I'm glad the Canadiens are not bending before Kovalev. They should have known better before giving him this huge contract.

Jagr said about Kovalev: (free translation)

"What's more important for Kovalev is not to score goals or get points, but deke players 1 on 1. He can deke anyone. He's an artist like a figure skater. When Lemieux had bad nights, at least he passed the puck to his linemates and finished the game with 4 assists. Kovalev doesn't have this asset. He'll never get 90 points again."

That's the FUNNIEST thing I've ever heard.

"he's an artist, like a figure skater" :lool:

Although Jagr basically confirms what I've been saying all a long. Kovalev's best years were inflated.

[RobRock]

And Jagr's expert analysis and insight is based on…

[Bacchus]

First, Jagr has to defend his fellow players.

Second, he does criticize Kovalev obliquely.

Third, he has a solid point about Carbonneau (as much as I love the guy, I think he did a poor job managing the rough patches).

Fourth, the Habs better be careful! They are squandering talent, but it may be the up-and-coming players that will get dissolusioned.

I hope things are taken care of properly ....

[InsaneHABSfan]

Whats a Jagr?

Oh ya someone who cannot win a cup without Mario.

Enough said.

[ShortHanded]

We should be playing Buffalo style, that's what we were best at all year.

true.... but not everything Jagr said was... and yeah, I expect him to say these things cuz he's that style of player too, only difference is he's more talented and feels like working hard more often than kovy does... but he still expects the world to revolve around him.

First, Jagr has to defend his fellow players.

Second, he does criticize Kovalev obliquely.

Third, he has a solid point about Carbonneau (as much as I love the guy, I think he did a poor job managing the rough patches).

Fourth, the Habs better be careful! They are squandering talent, but it may be the up-and-coming players that will get dissolusioned.

I hope things are taken care of properly ....

agree with all of this. especially, the third and fourth points.

[habs rule]

If Jagr said it then it is crap. He needs to straighten himself out before he offers advice to Carbo. Jagr is and always has been a coach killer. Kovalev just wants to be one.

[JMMR]

Whats a Jagr?

Oh ya someone who cannot win a cup without Mario.

Enough said.

And Gretzky is ..............

oh yeah somone who can not win a cup without Messier.

On the Jagr note I am not suprised the NHLPA is a unified body they should all stand up for eachother and pumping players ego's could be a good play for the Rangers to attract players to thier team.

[Pierre the Great]

And Gretzky is ..............

oh yeah somone who can not win a cup without Messier.

On the Jagr note I am not suprised the NHLPA is a unified body they should all stand up for eachother and pumping players ego's could be a good play for the Rangers to attract players to thier team.

And Brett Hull couldn't score without Adam Oates

[JMMR]

And Brett Hull couldn't score without Adam Oates

Not as true.

Hull scored 24 goals + in each season where he played more the 5 games.

scored 50 goals twice without him

scored 40 three other times

[Wamsley01]

And Gretzky is ..............

oh yeah somone who can not win a cup without Messier.

On the Jagr note I am not suprised the NHLPA is a unified body they should all stand up for eachother and pumping players ego's could be a good play for the Rangers to attract players to thier team.

It may be true but it is nonsense.

You can also say

And Gretzky is............

oh yeah somone who can not win a cup without Lowe.

oh yeah somone who can not win a cup without Kurri.

oh yeah somone who can not win a cup without Anderson.

oh yeah somone who can not win a cup without Huddy.

oh yeah somone who can not win a cup without Gregg.

oh yeah somone who can not win a cup without Kurri.

Messier never won a cup without Lowe, or Anderson, and that means?

Jagr was barely a point per game player when he won his 2 cups. Was he a contributer to the Cups...for sure. But he was no more integral to their first cup than Kovalev was in 94.

Jagr has never even got out of the second round without Mario.

I am with InsaveAVSfan on this one, your Gretzky analagy has no basis.

[InsaneHABSfan]

JMMR even though I respect your opinion, your post was very weak using Gretzky as an example. No Gretzky, no cups end of story.

The same could not be said about Jagr as Lemieux used to dress him down when he floated(Which was 90% of the time) Lemieux like Sakic and Gretzky were the major reasons each of those respective teams won cups.

Jagr is a good player, just soft, cries all the time and does not use his size to his advantage. Any team in the league would like to have Jagr for his offensive abilities. He is just another Kovalev, Samsonov type but he actually does put points on the board, nothing more.

Of course this is just my OPINION and as such is subject to redicule or enlightenment depending on what side of the fence one may be sitting on.

Edited April 29, 2007 by InsaneAVSfan

[saskhab]

I'd definitely say Jagr uses his size to his advantage. Him protecting the puck and cutting across the middle of the ice, using his reach. If you're saying he doesn't deliver big hits, then yeah, but... neither does a guy like Joe Thornton.

And let's face it, Jagr never had as good of a team during the years without Mario. And no one in their honest opinion thinks that Jagr is at Mario's level of player. Mario is one of the top 5 talents ever to play the game, if not the #1 talent.

Jagr has bounced back in terms of desire and effort post-lockout. His early '00s years were pretty forgettable for him, and his Washington career regrettable.

[koivu-11]

Alright, All this stuff about Jagr being a lazy player or wtv...does he get 100pts...last time i checked he does so does it matter if hes a little lazt...100pts is very good. Then we have Kovalev i really wouldnt mind seeing him gone, BUT i rather see carbo gone over him since carbo doesnt know how to control his players.

Are style of play is 100% not what it should be it should be a skating, hitting, pressure type of team like buffalo. Not defense that's why Kovalev and Samsonov had so much trouble the style of play is just not what they can play, You dont sign a UFA that can't play your style of play its just usless.

If you want to get a coach that will make something great happen with montreal, Who's very well noted in the NHL and still out there...Pat Quinn yea he coached the leafs but wow the guy can do wonders behind the bench, Toronto was never as good as it should have been. I still belive Samsonov has it in him to be what hes sapose to turn into but under carbo i don't think it's going to happen.

[JMMR]

Wow.

My Gretzky post was a joke. I know he was a great player and very important to the Oilers. Settle down boys hahah I should have used a smiley.

[Wamsley01]

Wow.

My Gretzky post was a joke. I know he was a great player and very important to the Oilers. Settle down boys hahah I should have used a smiley.

Understood , but some people believe that about Gretzky and Messier.

Jagr is overrated, and saying that Jagr did not have a great team without Lemiuex is not factual.

They won thier division with 98 points and lost to an inferior Habs team in the first round in 98.

He took a 4 year vacation in the prime of his career. If that does not open some eyes I do not know what can, He has great talent, but has never earned the greatest player in the league honours that at times have been bestowed upon him.

[InsaneHABSfan]

Are style of play is 100% not what it should be it should be a skating, hitting, pressure type of team like buffalo. Not defense that's why Kovalev and Samsonov had so much trouble the style of play is just not what they can play, You dont sign a UFA that can't play your style of play its just usless.

If you want to get a coach that will make something great happen with montreal, Who's very well noted in the NHL and still out there...Pat Quinn yea he coached the leafs but wow the guy can do wonders behind the bench, Toronto was never as good as it should have been. I still belive Samsonov has it in him to be what hes sapose to turn into but under carbo i don't think it's going to happen.

Agreed and Agreed!

Guys like Jagr can be more effective if they at least tried to be a little bit better in the defensive end. All he has to do is get in the way and that is effective. Kovalev and Samsonov are horrendous in their end but once you get past the blueline...Look Out. To be 100% fair, it would be good if Montreal had a Robert Lang or Chris Drury between these two guys.

Quinn would be interesting but I don't know if he has enough patience with the younger players. He did a great job with the Leafs. I think it was pressure hockey last year like Buffalo plays now that I really enjoyed. Even when Montreal lost it still was one heck of a game and they made the playoffs.

[saskhab]

Understood , but some people believe that about Gretzky and Messier.

Jagr is overrated, and saying that Jagr did not have a great team without Lemiuex is not factual.

They won thier division with 98 points and lost to an inferior Habs team in the first round in 98.

He took a 4 year vacation in the prime of his career. If that does not open some eyes I do not know what can, He has great talent, but has never earned the greatest player in the league honours that at times have been bestowed upon him.

I didn't say his teams weren't good, but they weren't '91-93 good. And comparing him to what Lemieux accomplished is ridiculous, because you're talking about not just an elite player, but one of the all time greatest players ever. No one is arguing for Jagr's name to be mentioned in the All-Time First or Second All-Star team.

[Wamsley01]

I didn't say his teams weren't good, but they weren't '91-93 good. And comparing him to what Lemieux accomplished is ridiculous, because you're talking about not just an elite player, but one of the all time greatest players ever. No one is arguing for Jagr's name to be mentioned in the All-Time First or Second All-Star team.

The first quote was Jagr won nothing without Lemieux...and it is true.

The next quote was Jagr did not have a good team without Lemiuex...and it is not true.

He had a 98 point team that could not make it out of the first round and underachieved.

He is an All-Star, but he is overrated.