Souray weighing contract offer from Habs

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

So never trade or move anyone and we are bound to improve!

Thats exactly what I meant by listing off those 5 players, I meant I wanted to ditch the entire crew and have the public play for us. I know you have said it a billion times, it feels like youve said it about 2 billion though.

Those are the problem players who in one way or another are hindering the team more than helping and that is exactly what we need to remove. You get everyone into the black and you are laughing your way to the finals.

No, you don't just 'remove' them and go to the finals. You have to replace them with BETTER players. But the problem is that that's not necessarily easy or self-evident - they don't just fall from the sky. Other GMs aren't blithering idiots and UFAs tend to steer clear of Montreal. It's like, back in the bad old days, when everyone kept screaming for us to 'get rid of Brisebois' - who was literally the ONLY guy on our team even close to being capable of quartbacking a PP and rushing the puck. Great, get rid of him and suck even worse, hooray! Or did people think were gonna get Pronger for Brisebois?

Similarly, last year you could have said 'get rid of Zednik and we'll laugh our way to the finals!!' Except we brought in Samsonov, and lo and behold, now it's HIS fault.

So I'm not saying never move a player. But a great big vacuum in your lineup, or throwing raw rookies in there, is hardly ever *better* than what you've got. I won't be happy with losing Souray, for instance, unless we can replace him with an overall upgrade on D. And that's still very much questionable at this point.

Edited June 16, 2007 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[Dalhabs]

Souray for 5M top or let him go. Get Dagenais back and use him on Sourays PP spot and on the 4th line the rest of the game

[OneSharpMarble]

Similarly, last year you could have said 'get rid of Zednik and we'll laugh our way to the finals!!' Except we brought in Samsonov, and lo and behold, now it's HIS fault.

So I'm not saying never move a player. But a great big vacuum in your lineup, or throwing raw rookies in there, is hardly ever *better* than what you've got. I won't be happy with losing Souray, for instance, unless we can replace him with an overall upgrade on D. And that's still very much questionable at this point.

Unless you replace a problem player with an even bigger problem you are going to improve and it shows everyone else on the team you are committed to improvment and no one is above that goal. If you just keep a cancer around or a untalented player it sends a bad message to the rest that they can get away with it and no one will hassle them.

Can Souray be replaced with a better defensive player? Absolutly, the guy is one of the worst defensmen around. But that isn't the argument. We had half of last season to do something and we saw this problem miles away and yet nothing was done and low and behold we miss the playoffs. Whew good thing we didn't move him for a solid prospect when we had the chance because right now we wouldnt be chewing our nails over what our D is going to be like if he walks for nothing or signs for everything.

I will be happy to see souray go, no more 100% reliance on his shot and less defensive brain farts.

[CoRvInA]

Unless you replace a problem player with an even bigger problem you are going to improve and it shows everyone else on the team you are committed to improvment and no one is above that goal. If you just keep a cancer around or a untalented player it sends a bad message to the rest that they can get away with it and no one will hassle them.

Can Souray be replaced with a better defensive player? Absolutly, the guy is one of the worst defensmen around. But that isn't the argument. We had half of last season to do something and we saw this problem miles away and yet nothing was done and low and behold we miss the playoffs. Whew good thing we didn't move him for a solid prospect when we had the chance because right now we wouldnt be chewing our nails over what our D is going to be like if he walks for nothing or signs for everything.

I will be happy to see souray go, no more 100% reliance on his shot and less defensive brain farts.

Come on... until when are we going to keep mentioning "Hindsight" dids or didnts.. Had we made the playoffs we would be blaming BG for dealing Souray and the reason why our PP sucked? Old stuff

On your other point however, yes there are better D men but u can't say no to the hardest shot in the league! if the man is willing to get a pay cut to stay in MTL then be it so!

on the other hand ur first point ... A problem replaced with a different problem even if its measurably equivalent doesnt mean improvement in any type or scale of definition!

[OneSharpMarble]

Come on... until when are we going to keep mentioning "Hindsight" dids or didnts.. Had we made the playoffs we would be blaming BG for dealing Souray and the reason why our PP sucked? Old stuff

On your other point however, yes there are better D men but u can't say no to the hardest shot in the league! if the man is willing to get a pay cut to stay in MTL then be it so!

on the other hand ur first point ... A problem replaced with a different problem even if its measurably equivalent doesnt mean improvement in any type or scale of definition!

Even if we had made the playoffs we would have been destroyed, not moving Souray was idiotic and no one needs hindsight to see that.

We rely too much on that hard shot, our offense should be scoring goals and our defense should be preventing them, with Souray everything is bass ackwards. Instead of driving to the net on a PP we pass to the point every move.

[bar]

Haha worst defenseman in the league eh? Gotta call your bull on this one.

Everyones entitled to their opinion but daaaaam, worst in the entire league? I mean even Gorges was better? Man you're a very bitter bitter bitter bitter person.

I like his style, I hope he stays, gets better defensively, and scores 30 so maybe OSM can upgrade him from worst in the league to semi-worst in the league

[ShortHanded]

Even if we had made the playoffs we would have been destroyed, not moving Souray was idiotic and no one needs hindsight to see that.

We rely too much on that hard shot, our offense should be scoring goals and our defense should be preventing them, with Souray everything is bass ackwards. Instead of driving to the net on a PP we pass to the point every move.

I actually think I agree with you here. It doesn't hurt to have that weapon, obviously, because we had the league's best PP, but we really do rely WAAAY too much on it. I would like more options and more flexibility. Is this more the coach's fault though, don't they make up the game plan?

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Hate to say it but with the loss of Emelin, Souray becomes that much more important now. If we don't sign him I hope that we can fill the hole with a reliable D.

And, is OneSharpMarble (AKA: my way or the highway) going on again ABOUT no deadline Souray deal? BOb didn't deal him. It's in the past. Are we going to drone on about this forever? Let's move on.

Edited June 18, 2007 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[Habsfan24]

Hate to say it but with the loss of Emelin, Souray becomes that much more important now. If we don't sign him I hope that we can fill the hole with a reliable D.

And, is OneSharpMarble (AKA: my way or the highway) going on again ABOUT no deadline Souray deal? BOb didn't deal him. It's in the past. Are we going to drone on about this forever? Let's move on.

I really agree. With Elemin not coming over and a bit of extra cap room saved from the Samsanov deal Bob has a bit more money to spend... perhaps on Souray? The thing I like about Souray is his leadership and sticking up for other players. The Habs have very few players like that right now to be honest. I remember when Saku got hit by Colby Armstrong this year everyone stood around (I remember Ryder specifically) with blank looks on their faces. Souray was the only one on the ice to do anything about it. Anyways I could go go for an hour about the pros and cons of Souray but I think we've been over that a 100 times. The main point here is with no Emelin and more money to spend the chances of Bob trying to retain Souray just went up IMO.

Edited June 18, 2007 by Habsfan24

[ShortHanded]

I really agree. With Elemin not coming over and a bit of extra cap room saved from the Samsanov deal Bob has a bit more money to spend... perhaps on Souray? The thing I like about Souray is his leadership and sticking up for other players. The Habs have very few players like that right now to be honest. I remember when Saku got hit by Colby Armstrong this year everyone stood around (I remember Ryder specifically) with blank looks on their faces. Souray was the only one on the ice to do anything about it. Anyways I could go go for an hour about the pros and cons of Souray but I think we've been over that a 100 times. The main point here is with no Emelin and more money to spend the chances of Bob trying to retain Souray just went up IMO.

I'm okay with this IF we still manage to bring in a GOOD DEFENSIVE D who can make an outlet pass to still upgrade the D. So far, I've assumed we can't afford both that D and Souray, and I think if we have to pick one, that D (whoever he is) would be more important. Otherwise, we go into next year with NO upgrade on D. If suddenly we can afford both, maybe that's allright to go for both. But I'm still weary of signing Souray to an expensive, long term (over 2 years) deal and then he tanks offensively, and we can't move him because other than offense, what are his assets that would warrant over $4M? Ppl go on about his leadership, but would you be willing to pay that much for his leadership and good attitude if it didn't come with the shot?

[Habsfan24]

I'm okay with this IF we still manage to bring in a GOOD DEFENSIVE D who can make an outlet pass to still upgrade the D. So far, I've assumed we can't afford both that D and Souray, and I think if we have to pick one, that D (whoever he is) would be more important. Otherwise, we go into next year with NO upgrade on D. If suddenly we can afford both, maybe that's allright to go for both. But I'm still weary of signing Souray to an expensive, long term (over 2 years) deal and then he tanks offensively, and we can't move him because other than offense, what are his assets that would warrant over $4M? Ppl go on about his leadership, but would you be willing to pay that much for his leadership and good attitude if it didn't come with the shot?

That is the risk with Souray for sure. I do agree about the length though. I imagine Souray would want more then a two year deal whereever he signs and I don't know if that is wise for the Habs to do.

I guess only time will tell what will happen.

[OneSharpMarble]

Haha worst defenseman in the league eh? Gotta call your bull on this one.

Everyones entitled to their opinion but daaaaam, worst in the entire league? I mean even Gorges was better? Man you're a very bitter bitter bitter bitter person.

I like his style, I hope he stays, gets better defensively, and scores 30 so maybe OSM can upgrade him from worst in the league to semi-worst in the league

HAH! I knew this was coming that is why I worded it "one of the worst defenseman around" thus leaving me an escape route. He isn't the worst in the league true but if we pay him 5 million he will be the most overpaid in the league. He is terrible though no one can argue that.

Hate to say it but with the loss of Emelin, Souray becomes that much more important now. If we don't sign him I hope that we can fill the hole with a reliable D.

And, is OneSharpMarble (AKA: my way or the highway) going on again ABOUT no deadline Souray deal? BOb didn't deal him. It's in the past. Are we going to drone on about this forever? Let's move on.

Found it! I didn't venture back once the new page started. I had to do a search on your posts and read through them one by one which was excrutiating as I was correcting you subconciously literally dozens of times.

I can bring that deal up as many times as I like because it is still haunting us. Once he is moved from the team and water under the bridge then it will be out of my reach. Besides all you fan bois are quick to point out Gaineys good moves, of which there aren't many.

Haha victorious yet again! Champion now and for always! (inside joke)

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Talk about topsy turvy. On the even days we are happy (Higgins, Komisarek, Samsonov) and then the odd days roll around (Souray, Emelin)

I DEMAND BETTER NEWS. At least we didn't fire Gainey and promote Carbo today like some did :puke:

Edited June 18, 2007 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[CoRvInA]

I can bring that deal up as many times as I like because it is still haunting us. Once he is moved from the team and water under the bridge then it will be out of my reach. Besides all you fan bois are quick to point out Gaineys good moves, of which there aren't many.

Haha victorious yet again! Champion now and for always! (inside joke)

You still dont get it do you! oh well... hmm I realy am focusing on the "Sharp" part of your nick

[bigbird19]

I DEMAND BETTER NEWS. At least we didn't fire Gainey and promote Carbo today like some did :puke:

And this after coming within 3 wins of glory.

If the Habs were another team, we'd probably fire Timmins as well.

[InsaneHABSfan]

I DEMAND BETTER NEWS. At least we didn't fire Gainey and promote Carbo today like some did :puke:

BETTER NEWS:

1. Draft is 4 days away.

2. Montreal picks Before Leafs!

3. Souray not going to sign now, so extra 4.5-5Mill cap space for a free agent or significant trade.

4. I rule!

5. Habs are still a fast team.

6. Great goaltending prospects abound in the Habs organization.

7. Some good defensive prospects in the Habs organization, where a few years ago YIKES.

8. The sun will be up tomorrow morning.

Edited June 18, 2007 by InsaneAVSfan

[OneSharpMarble]

You still dont get it do you! oh well... hmm I realy am focusing on the "Sharp" part of your nick

I think she is hitting on me guys. B)

Sorry babe i'm taken...for now

[bigbird19]

BETTER NEWS:

1. Draft is 4 days away.

2. Montreal picks Before Leafs!

3. Souray not going to sign now, so extra 4.5-5Mill cap space for a free agent or significant trade.

4. I rule!

5. Habs are still a fast team.

6. Great goaltending prospects abound in the Habs organization.

7. Some good defensive prospects in the Habs organization, where a few years ago YIKES.

8. The sun will be up tomorrow morning.

1. Draft beer ? Today ! Doh !

2. Does it / has it really mattered ?

3. Maybe the Leafs will find room for another DefenceTrump.

4. If you say so !

5. Fast = good. Fast and dedication = Better.

6. Don't deal Huet or Halak. Wait until we know for sure.

7. I'd sort of like Rafalski, at the right price.

8. Unless you're in Oz. It's already up. Like our fortunes.

[ShortHanded]

timonen and hartnell are off the market through a trade and signings with Philly... and timonen will be making LOADS of money (I believe it's 6M+ per year)... I wonder what Souray thinks about all of this and how much it changes his price tag... I would have loved Timonen in a habs jersey... Hanan anyone? Rafalski's looking more and more like the guy we might get (if any...)

[BTH]

I'd love it if we got Rafalski.

Brian_the_Habbie

[JMMR]

I'd love it if we got Rafalski.

Brian_the_Habbie

Rafalski will get the same deal Kimmo got.

I still have faith Souray will not take 6 million when he said it was to much he believes that. PLease prove me right Souray 3 years 15 mil.

[ShortHanded]

Rafalski will get the same deal Kimmo got.

I still have faith Souray will not take 6 million when he said it was to much he believes that. PLease prove me right Souray 3 years 15 mil.

Sorry, but I'm a complete pessimist and I doubt that Souray will believe that 6M is too much once he's gotten it as an offer. Suddenly, it'll look exactly accurate. I know Souray's an all around good-guy, but the flip side of all his "unfinished business" and "6 M is too much" talk that all you believers keep referencing is the parts where he says "this is a business, we'll see how it goes, etc"... At the end of the day, my guess is it'll be a combination of the money and a relatively decent team (I don't think he'll want to go to a complete loser), but at the same time, I think the money factor will be more than BG is willing to pay and I'm okay with that. I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'd rather a decent D in his own end with a good outlet pass over a guy whose goals are balanced, or over-compensated negatively, by his bad play in his own end. And yes, I know he's not the worst guy in his own end, but our D badly needs an upgrade, and we're likely stuck with the Bouillon's and Dandenaults, so Souray's the guy we're going to have to upgrade on, and though it's not the worst D in the league, in our own end, we could do MUCH BETTER than Souray.

[Habitforming]

Rafalski will get the same deal Kimmo got.

I still have faith Souray will not take 6 million when he said it was to much he believes that. PLease prove me right Souray 3 years 15 mil.

Souray will likely take that deal. Just not with us. The $15M the habs could offer is way less take home if you consider the taxes he would pay.In California however he would take home almost all of it

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Just let July 1 come around so this issue will die please.

[BTH]

Rafalski will get the same deal Kimmo got.

I still have faith Souray will not take 6 million when he said it was to much he believes that. PLease prove me right Souray 3 years 15 mil.

Well I want him just so he can follow in the lead of Bonk and Bulis and represent the B of BTH. I don't think it would be wise to pay anyone more than we're paying Markov. Or atleast more than 6M.