Chris Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 They are on the first PP Unit. Ryder moves to the other side for one timers. Kovalev averages the most ice time anyway, how much more more can they give that slug? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortHanded Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 They are on the first PP Unit. Ryder moves to the other side for one timers. Kovalev averages the most ice time anyway, how much more more can they give that slug? To answer your question, they can give him regular even strength time with Koivu, and play him on the point in the PP. Souray's as good as gone; I doubt Kovy's tradeable, and we're stuck with him for the next two years. Rather than bring in a washed up player Kovy USED to play well with in years past (a la Lang) why don't we try him with Koivu, who's our best player and who plays well with Kovy as well... I'm not suggeting we do Kovy favours in any way, I'm just suggesting we do what might help the team play the most competitive line up, given the circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Yes, this will be tough. With Ryder and Kovalev both needing to play with Koivu. Do you trade Ryder? The experiment when they were all together never worked. I do think Lats will be on the left side with Koivu. Higgins Pleks Kosty will be the 2nd line barring trades so do you move Kovalev or Ryder down. Who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortHanded Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Yes, this will be tough. With Ryder and Kovalev both needing to play with Koivu. Do you trade Ryder? The experiment when they were all together never worked. I do think Lats will be on the left side with Koivu. Higgins Pleks Kosty will be the 2nd line barring trades so do you move Kovalev or Ryder down. Who knows. That's the only reason (but a BIG reason) I can see not to play Kovy there is that it's one of Ryder or Kovy, and most days, Ryder brings more to the table since he's at least a consistent scorer. Would alternating them work and seeing who runs with it? Kovy didn't score a lot last year, but he also didn't have the benefit of playing with Koivu, which Ryder had. At the same time, I don't think trading Ryder is a good idea since we've got so little going on in terms of offense, are about to lose Souray, who brought 26 goals with him last year, almost as much as Ryder, and if we're keeping Ryder, we might as well give him the best opportunity to succeed, which is with Koivu, and score all his goals. Lats NEEDS to play on an offensive line to develop into the player we know he can be, so he should stay on that line as you say. It's a hard decision to make for sure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revin5 Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 X-Lapierre-Ryder X is: Latendresse - physical line Lahti - give Ryder power play time and he'll still get his 30 goals. Higgins - unlikely to break up HPK, either Lats ot Lahts could take his place I really want to see Koivu-Kovalev, and I think Ryder could do well with Lapierre as long as he's given someone to work with on the opposite wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 thats assuming Kosty is a done deal in terms of roster spot. lets hope so! So Our top 4 RW are Ryder, Kovy, Kosty and who else? Streit? Geezz No need to trade anybody else... This is where we are forgetting the other NEw Habs that have and will make the roster (the Finns etc..) So leave the Higgins plek kosty line intact if all three remain and have a pivotal ryder Kovy on the Lats Koivu line... who elver plays worse plays with Lapierre and Begin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortHanded Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 thats assuming Kosty is a done deal in terms of roster spot. lets hope so! So Our top 4 RW are Ryder, Kovy, Kosty and who else? Streit? Geezz No need to trade anybody else... This is where we are forgetting the other NEw Habs that have and will make the roster (the Finns etc..) So leave the Higgins plek kosty line intact if all three remain and have a pivotal ryder Kovy on the Lats Koivu line... who elver plays worse plays with Lapierre and Begin I thought about alternating Ryder / Kovy like that, based on who's playing better, but I'm not sure the constant bouncing around would work. Kovy would probably complain when he was with Lappy/Begin and then his sulking would keep him playing badly even when he got a chance with Koivu/Lats... Still, that's more Kovy's attitude problem, and we shouldn't base the team's line up on his attitude problem, so... maybe it would work... Trying it and seeing would be worth it, but if it doesn't work out, I would hope Carbo would pick one guy and just go with him becuase one of the things that bugged me about Carbo last year was how long he stuck with things even when they weren't working (Kovy/Sammy combo)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokyohabs Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 (edited) There is another problem playing Kovalev with Ryder. Kovalev has probably the best 'pure' hockey sense on the team, while Ryder has almost none. I really don't think they would work together. Playing with Kovalev, Ryder can't simply 'keep stick on ice-go front of net'. work ethic works conversely, as mentioned above: Ryder's is very high, Kovalev has some kind of negative rating. But please, let's not have the juggling. Set the lines, make adjustments after 20 - 25 games, roll with it. Of course, Tanguay could probably play with Kovalev and Koivu... Edited June 27, 2007 by tokyohabs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortHanded Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 There is another problem playing Kovalev with Ryder. Kovalev has probably the best 'pure' hockey sense on the team, while Ryder has almost none. I really don't think they would work together. Playing with Kovalev, Ryder can't simply 'keep stick on ice-go front of net'. work ethic works conversely, as mentioned above: Ryder's is very high, Kovalev has some kind of negative rating. But please, let's not have the juggling. Set the lines, make adjustments after 20 - 25 games, roll with it. Of course, Tanguay could probably play with Kovalev and Koivu... I wouldn't want Kovy and Ryder on the same line for sure, it's more that they both play well with Koivu so which do you keep in that position... I suppose it's possible that Ryder might play well with others too, especially if our third line is a an offensive line of some sort and we leave the checking role to the fourth line (a la Corvina's suggestions in other posts). If this is the case, in order to avoid the alternating, Ryder could play on the third. Kovy proved last year that he does not play well without Koivu, so I'd really like it if they at least STARTED the year off on the same line. It's all really quite hard to say what'll happen. I suspect though, the Ryder will be offered a massive contract by some other team and gainey won't want to match it and Ryder will be gone come training camp, so maybe the whole question of which one of htem plays with Koivu is a moot point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 They are both RW's. This experiment was done 2 years ago and was a miserable failure. You can't put a minus 20 player on your checking line, defeats the purpose. I actually think one of them will have to moved. There is no way the habs can expect to compete with virtually the same lineup. We have all seen the results of what the core has brought the Habs. A big fat nothing. So without some movement i would expect the same results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneHABSfan Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 They are both RW's. This experiment was done 2 years ago and was a miserable failure. You can't put a minus 20 player on your checking line, defeats the purpose. I actually think one of them will have to moved. There is no way the habs can expect to compete with virtually the same lineup. We have all seen the results of what the core has brought the Habs. A big fat nothing. So without some movement i would expect the same results. Chris can I quote you: "A big fat nothing." I love it as it made me chuckle! It is how I felt when the Habs when from a comfortable playoff position to the BIG freefall that just ebarrassed me in front of my two Leaf Lovin Coworkers. I just felt like NOTHING..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Yes, it's how i have felt for the last 10 years. it's kind of embarassing. Fortunatley i live in Colorado so no leafs fans. I didn't look this up but i think Hamilton has more playoff wins last year then the Habs combined in the last 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortHanded Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 They are both RW's. This experiment was done 2 years ago and was a miserable failure. You can't put a minus 20 player on your checking line, defeats the purpose. I actually think one of them will have to moved. There is no way the habs can expect to compete with virtually the same lineup. We have all seen the results of what the core has brought the Habs. A big fat nothing. So without some movement i would expect the same results. it's likely one will go, and while I would rather that one was Kovy, reality is that it'll be Ryder for various reasons: 1) his contract is up for renewal and will likely put him out of our price range for what he brings and the garbage contracts we're still stuck with (i.e. Kovy) 2) even if he resigns, it'll probably be to a one year deal, and then he'd be gone next year, so you have to wonder why we'd keep him if we can't sign him to a reasonable long term deal 3) he's good enough to be a main player in a trade package for something good, while if we were to trade Kovy to another team, they'd practically be doing us a favour based on his salary and poor play last season, as well as off-ice distractions... So most likely, Ryder's gone and an impact player is broght in, and Kovy's here to stay until the end of his contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 So most likely, Ryder's gone and an impact player is broght in, and Kovy's here to stay until the end of his contract. Yeah, it wouldn't shock me if BOb was growing tired of the stonewalling every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy Ryder Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 With the kinf of money given to free agents and soon to be free agents i do not think Kovalev is overpaid right now. That makes him intriguing for some team. 4.5 million in a trade is not as much as an expense of 4-5 millions on a free agent for 5 years. Put yourself in Washington situation, no big name free agent is interested in signing with you. Your two stars are left wingers and russians. You need a scoring right winger and a playmaking center. If you bring a player like Kovalev, it may attract Yashin to play for them. Laugh all you can but it gives you two years to develop Center Niklas Backstrom 4th overall in 2006 wich is already signed. Add Eric Fehr to the mix and in two years and you have a nice nucleus for years to come. But right now Ovechkin needs some help, two fellow russians Yashin and Kovalev can transform their offense and powerplay especially and make them contenders for a eight spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortHanded Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 With the kinf of money given to free agents and soon to be free agents i do not think Kovalev is overpaid right now. That makes him intriguing for some team. 4.5 million in a trade is not as much as an expense of 4-5 millions on a free agent for 5 years. Put yourself in Washington situation, no big name free agent is interested in signing with you. Your two stars are left wingers and russians. You need a scoring right winger and a playmaking center. If you bring a player like Kovalev, it may attract Yashin to play for them. Laugh all you can but it gives you two years to develop Center Niklas Backstrom 4th overall in 2006 wich is already signed. Add Eric Fehr to the mix and in two years and you have a nice nucleus for years to come. But right now Ovechkin needs some help, two fellow russians Yashin and Kovalev can transform their offense and powerplay especially and make them contenders for a eight spot. I would be THRILLED if this happened. Hopefully we'd get back something we could use for Kovy though, because it seems to me we're more likely to improve the team through trades, not UFAs (at least not this year's UFAs) on Forward, and it's clear that Gainey doesn't want to trade away the prospects/youth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chips Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 I've a big Kovy fan and Ryder fan; but the status quo will not work. One way or another, BG will be making changes to bring a different mix into the lineup. This could be an entire attitude change or a change in faces. Attitudes will not be given as much time to adjust. If they don't produce they will be gone and/or replaced. I like Easy Ryder's comments on Kovy being attractive at his current price range. But if he does turn a corner next season and produces that contract would look like gold to us too. Either way, Bob will not let things become status quo like last season. He promised Koviu to bring the team up as a contender. GO HABS GO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l<OV4L3V Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 First of all... Kovalevs going nowhere, second of all.....If they dont try Koivu-Kovalev combination......I will be ultra angry and perhaps throw my molson ex at the TV or attempt to reach the ice. Third of all....I think this line would be lethal...IMO....Gomez-Koivu-Kovalev .....I am drooling as I am typing this....excuse me while i get out the paper towels GO :hlogo: GO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 First of all... Kovalevs going nowhere, second of all.....If they dont try Koivu-Kovalev combination......I will be ultra angry and perhaps throw my molson ex at the TV or attempt to reach the ice. Third of all....I think this line would be lethal...IMO....Gomez-Koivu-Kovalev .....I am drooling as I am typing this....excuse me while i get out the paper towels GO :hlogo: GO I heard Gomez doesnt wanna change his home address that much!! meaning he wants to stay in the US.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFT77 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 I also would like to see more of the Koivu-Kovalev combo. On the left side i say try Lats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan24 Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Ryder Saks and Kovalev 82 games + next season. No changing the lines around and play them a lot. Make them earn their coin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Ok, I'll try this one more time, Kovalev and Ryder are both RW's. This expirement was tried 2 yeard ago and failed. It's not going to help with 3 of the 4 worst plus minus' on the team playing together. I agree they have to earn there money but putting them together isn't the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Maybe a Higgins-Koivu-Kovalev line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortHanded Posted June 28, 2007 Share Posted June 28, 2007 Maybe a Higgins-Koivu-Kovalev line? Maybe, but Higgins worked SOOOOOOOOO well with Kosty and Plex. And still, where would you put Ryder? Would you play him on the RW on the second line and move Kosty to Higgin's old spot on the LW? Heck, try it out in training camp and see if it works. If so, fine. If not, DON'T break up a line that works really well (Higgins-Plex-Kosty) for two lines that won't work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l<OV4L3V Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Maybe, but Higgins worked SOOOOOOOOO well with Kosty and Plex. And still, where would you put Ryder? Would you play him on the RW on the second line and move Kosty to Higgin's old spot on the LW? Heck, try it out in training camp and see if it works. If so, fine. If not, DON'T break up a line that works really well (Higgins-Plex-Kosty) for two lines that won't work... Agreed...why not give it a go in the late preseason and experiment....if Higgins-Koivu-Kovy doesnt work...than put Lats with them....I really just hope Guy doesnt keep Kovalev on line two..I know he didnt earn it last season, but why not give it a whirl...It seems like Koivu motivates Kovalev...and vice versa...So give it a whirl!!! GO :hlogo: GO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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