Canadiens sign Hamrlik, Smolinski & Kostopoulos

[Prime Minister Koivu]

*stumbles across this gem of a post*

I'd be careful knocking a team that finished better then yours. 44-31-7 sucks ass? Peter Budaj seems to look like a goalie to me if that helmet and pads are any indication as well.

I don't pretend to follow the Habs, don't pretend you follow the Avs.

I'm not sure that I am ready for that avatar just yet

He would have looked much better is a red jersey I think.

[smon]

Well, some of you and The Chicoutimi Cucumber in particular may have read a post I made much earlier in this thread where I expressed concerns about the kinds of players Gainey was targeting.

Lo and behold, we have Roman Hamrlik signed long term at 5.5M/yr until he's 37. If you can believe such a thing, this is actually a contract that makes the Leafs signing of Pavol Kubina to a 4yr, 20M contract last offseason actually look good.

Wow.

As for Smolinski, sure he's got offensive talent, bit of a downgrade defensively compared to Bonk for sure though. Just goes to show you how far the team's sunk if they've got to give NTC's to third liners.

Is Hamrlik better defensively than Souray? Without a doubt. But offensively he is no match to Souray either and this will hurt the team big time.

And where's the centre everyone's been hoping for? Bryan Smolinski is not going to cut it. At best, he is a slight upgrade over Radek Bonk.

This team is not as good as the one that started last season. The defense has taken a significant downgrade due to "market conditions" and Souray walking away, and there has been no significant offensive acquisition to offset this loss of production. And on centre, there's no improvement.

I honestly hope that Gainey continues to bring in more talent, because if this is all he's planning on doing, it'd be a colossal waste. I really do sympathize with the pressures that the man is under, but years of mediocrity tend to do that to a team's fanbase.

Edited July 3, 2007 by smon

[Chris]

I don't have any real problems with the pick ups. Hamrlk is fine, 1 year and a little high priced for me but it's acceptable for a top 4 D man. Yes, he is an upgrade over Souray, better all over the ice, much better passer and tougher in his own end. Souray did get in a few fights, but he backed off numerous others, tou IS NOT taking roughing penalties after the whistle which Souray did plenty of. So BYE BYE Sheldon.

Smolinski is a decent 3rd line vet who can do alot of things and get you some points. Not overly physical but plays hard. Hmmm, do i see a trend here, BG adding players who actually play hard and show up. If the record doesn't get better atleast we'll see some hustle for a change.

I still think BG will make 1 trade to upgrade the forwards or center. It may cost Ryder, Pleks, Halak, but i don't think he is done. I still think there is room for 2-3 rookies making the roster.

Sorry SMON, the D is not worse when you don't resign the WORST Dman in the league. Minus 28. Take away his goals he is a zero.

[Habitforming]

I don't have any real problems with the pick ups. Hamrlk is fine, 1 year and a little high priced for me but it's acceptable for a top 4 D man. Yes, he is an upgrade over Souray, better all over the ice, much better passer and tougher in his own end. Souray did get in a few fights, but he backed off numerous others, tou IS NOT taking roughing penalties after the whistle which Souray did plenty of. So BYE BYE Sheldon.

Smolinski is a decent 3rd line vet who can do alot of things and get you some points. Not overly physical but plays hard. Hmmm, do i see a trend here, BG adding players who actually play hard and show up. If the record doesn't get better atleast we'll see some hustle for a change.

I still think BG will make 1 trade to upgrade the forwards or center. It may cost Ryder, Pleks, Halak, but i don't think he is done. I still think there is room for 2-3 rookies making the roster.

Sorry SMON, the D is not worse when you don't resign the WORST Dman in the league. Minus 28. Take away his goals he is a zero.

WOW!!

We rarely agree.....EVER actually.

But I thin...Maybe we jus....HOLY CRAP! .......WE DO AGREE!!!

[Chris]

There is a first time for everything habitforming.

[smon]

Well, Hamrlik is not a bad pickup - but based on the options out there, Gainey should have been spoiled for choice if he was throwing around that much money.

Still whatever, I hope Hamrlik proves me wrong and brings his best game to Montreal.

[Chris]

It would have been tough for BG to pay any Dman more then Markov. UFA or not. BG has loyalty and so does Markov.

[ShortHanded]

Well, Hamrlik is not a bad pickup - but based on the options out there, Gainey should have been spoiled for choice if he was throwing around that much money.

Still whatever, I hope Hamrlik proves me wrong and brings his best game to Montreal.

First of all, Hamrlik is a VERY solid pickup, second of all, Gainey may have offered the same money to others we don't know about, or acquired after their services and they may NOT have been insterested. I for one am happy to be gettng a solid D with offensive skills who WANTS to play in montreal. For all his talk about "unfinished business" Souray was after the money... a few words at the end of the day not backed up by actions... let's see what Hamrlik does on the ice. I guarantee defensively, it'll be a HUGE upgrade over Souray...

[ShortHanded]

For all those saying Hamrlik's play is inflated based on his play with Dion the last two years, here's Pat Hickey's take on this one:

"One radio commentator suggested Hamrlik might find things more difficult in Montreal because he won't have Dion Phaneuf as a partner nor will he have Miikka Kiprusoff in goal. The fact is a large part of Phaneuf's success was the result of playing with Hamrlik during the past two seasons and, whoever winds up playing in goal for Montreal, might have better numbers with Hamrlik on defence.

Hamrlik could play a key role in the development of another young defenceman, Ryan O'Byrne. There are some question marks about his readiness to play in the NHL, but a veteran like Hamrlik could cover up some of his deficiencies.

Hamrlik also gives the Canadiens more flexibility because, while he is a left-handed shot, he can play either side."

Hickey knows his hockey...

[cfposi]

First of all, Hamrlik is a VERY solid pickup, second of all, Gainey may have offered the same money to others we don't know about, or acquired after their services and they may NOT have been insterested. I for one am happy to be gettng a solid D with offensive skills who WANTS to play in montreal. For all his talk about "unfinished business" Souray was after the money... a few words at the end of the day not backed up by actions... let's see what Hamrlik does on the ice. I guarantee defensively, it'll be a HUGE upgrade over Souray...

Agreed...although Hamrlik is a downgrade offensively...that responsibility should be taken by the offence. The fact that a defenceman was one of our top scorers last season is actually a symptom of a horrible offence. I am much happier having 2 experienced top-4 D on the team who can get the rush moving with outlet passes and who can help develop our yound D-corps. As long as our offence finds some rythm next season, the signing of Hammy over Shelly is a significant upgrade.

[Dutch_Habs_Fan]

Komi - Markov

Hamrlik - O'Byrne

big banger - Streit

Looks good to me, but yeah. All those other d's....

[saskhab]

Hannan got $1m less per year over the same term as Hamrlik.

Anyways, Gainey was brought in partly to bring credibility to our franchise and make it a more desirable location for players to sign. In reality, he's brought in the same guys Savard would've brought in at the same prices.

Top 4 guys have been getting between $3.5m and $4.5m... we paid $5.5m for ours. That's not market value, that's overpaying.

Apparently (according to Sportsnet/Fan Radio's Prime Time Sports) we offered Souray the same deal as Hamrlik and he turned us down.

BTW, Hamrlik played on the PP with Phaneuf in Calgary, so Dion didn't steal any points from him as has been implied here.

[Dutch_Habs_Fan]

Hannan got $1m less per year over the same term as Hamrlik.

Anyways, Gainey was brought in partly to bring credibility to our franchise and make it a more desirable location for players to sign. In reality, he's brought in the same guys Savard would've brought in at the same prices.

Top 4 guys have been getting between $3.5m and $4.5m... we paid $5.5m for ours. That's not market value, that's overpaying.

Apparently (according to Sportsnet/Fan Radio's Prime Time Sports) we offered Souray the same deal as Hamrlik and he turned us down.

BTW, Hamrlik played on the PP with Phaneuf in Calgary, so Dion didn't steal any points from him as has been implied here.

Yeah we have to overpay, otherwise they wont come. Keep in mind that those guys just dont wanna play here...and to attract you gotta show big bucks!

[saskhab]

Yeah we have to overpay, otherwise they wont come. Keep in mind that those guys just dont wanna play here...and to attract you gotta show big bucks!

Or you gotta convince them that we're on the verge of winning. All I've heard over the past couple of days, as well as last year with Shanahan, is that players didn't choose Montreal because they felt we wouldn't have a shot at winning soon enough.

Gainey has not been a good salesman. People forget he's a manager. He's not just an impulse shopper. Most businesses run by managers who consistently overspend go out of business or are underproductive. Trust me... I've been dealing with one of these guys everyday for a while (not my employer, just an umbrella company). You've got to sell the team and city to the players. You can't let rumor and perception make their decisions for them.

[smon]

Yeah, that's true. Gainey has not done a great job at all with free agency.

[Dutch_Habs_Fan]

You cant judge on his way of running the bussines, cuz you're not there. All you can judge is the outcome...and its true that its not living up to the expectations. (but those are always to high)

[ShortHanded]

realistically, I think we're only going to lose one of Dandy/Bouillon over the off-season. If you're trading them, you're gonna have to trade them with something good to get anything back, unless we trade them for low picks by another team (5th round or lower?)... because the other team is swallowing the salary, so how willing are we trade away some of our solid prospects/young guys in the process of losing them?

If you waive them, no guarantee anyone picks them up, and then if they clear, do you send them down? Don't buy them out because we lose valuable cap space on the buy out, and if you send down Dandy, how does that look to the UFA's we're already havign such a hard time attracting... We can only really lose them by trading them, and I don't think we'll find takers for 2 5/6 Defensemen around the league at their salaries. We'll be lucky if we find one.

[hab29RETIRED]

We got even softer on offense.

Common slow minsky is a floater, we need grit and size.

Exactly why i hate this signing. I think we already have better 3rd line centres then him - all he is going to do i impede on the progress of Lapierre/Pleks and possibly Chips.

[hab29RETIRED]

I'll ignorthe second part of yuor post because it's just a bad argument, but as to the first part, it's called comitting to your players. Why would we trade Smolinski if he's on a one-year deal? He's a solid no-risk kind of guy for the third line. We're not taking muc hof a risk at all wit hthat NTC.

We have Pleks, Lapierre and possibly Chips and Gaby coming up. If all four of them are looking better then Smolinski in camp, we are going to be forced to send one or two of them back to the minors (most likely Chips). If Smolinki gets out played by the kids - which i think he most likely will (there is a reason this guy has been bounced around for the last few years), without a NTC we could have still moved him.

It is a terrible signing, coz at centre, the habs don't need another checking type 3rd liner. They needed a top six player and a top three D-man. In today's NHL, this signing is $2M wasted.

As far as the second part of my argument, if you are going to eat up $2m from cap space, you may as well do it for an impact player. Moreover, Smolinski signed for more then Bonk did. I would have rather offered Bonk a 2 year deal WITHOUT a NTC, for what he signed for, he still would have been a future asset, as his contract would still have made him movable if the kids show they belong.

[hab29RETIRED]

Indeed, we are in Plan F.

F as in Future.

Smolinski is an offensive upgrade on the guy he will replace (not in terms of skating, but point production). We have him for all of one year, so he doesn't hurt up-and-coming players' development. Plus I'm sure he can teach plenty of tricks to the young pups on the march up from Hamilton, or those already here (Lapierre). He is a hustler, a decent skater, a team player, seems to be a vocal vet. Smart move, we had the room and the roster spot. If Chips needs to work on his skating, as many who have seen him have said, better to do it in Hamilton than with us now.

Different kind of player than previous, maybe more the kind of player Bob wants (looking at the future, of course).

Hamrlik, looks decent. Souray was never going to re-sign here. We have a guy who is infinitely more balanced than Souray. What we lost in leadership can be replaced by Smolinski, the ever-burgeoning Higgins and maybe Hamrlik himself.

People complain that he coughs the puck up. And Souray didn't, apparently. Hamrlik is going to make mistakes, but he will be much more solid at the back. So his plus minus was inflated playing with Phaneuf? Then play him with Komi and let him skate. He will be a good influence on younger players as well, with his knowledge and responsibility.

Overpaid? Check the UFA market lately? MARKET VALUE - doesn't mean good or bad value, but what the market will bear. Or maybe we could let Souray walk and sign nobody?

Again, I feel Bob is changing the team here. He has to change the type of player we have first, and that is what he is doing. Plus, a D-man playing well until he is 37 is no rarity now.

These two moves are in no way 'panic' moves - that kind of comment is ludicrous. We are well under the cap still, enough for a trade or two (forget Marleau, I think), and we have gone a few steps to change the team's identity, in terms of younger players seeing what it takes to wear the shirt.

Yes this are panic moves. Panic moves brought on with a stupid policy of not being willing to negotiate during the year so they couldn;t sign Souray and the fact that no QUALITY UFA's wanted to sign with the habs. The habs could have signed both Souray and Markov during the year and saved considerably, before the MARKET VALUE INCREASED. The flames just signed Reghyr for less money then Markov, hamrlik and whatever it will cost to sign souray now, even though he is definitely a better dman then Souray and Hamrlik.

Edited July 3, 2007 by hab29RETIRED

[The Iron Lung]

Hamrlik wants to play here... Smolinski wants a no-trade clause so he can play a full season here. They sound like the kind of players I want on my team. I don't want a headcase that we have to pay extra for. We got a quality centre and a #2 or #3 defenseman... sounds good to me.

[ShortHanded]

Yes this are panic moves. Panic moves brought on with a stupid policy of not being willing to negotiate during the year so they couldn;t sign Souray and the fact that no QUALITY UFA's wanted to sign with the habs. The habs could have signed both Souray and Markov during the year and saved considerably, before the MARKET VALUE INCREASED. The flames just signed Reghyr for less money then Markov, hamrlik and whatever it will cost to sign souray now, even though he is definitely a better dman then Souray and Hamrlik.

I'll give you that much. I HATE BG's policy of refusing to negotiate during the year...

[hab29RETIRED]

For all those saying Hamrlik's play is inflated based on his play with Dion the last two years, here's Pat Hickey's take on this one:

"One radio commentator suggested Hamrlik might find things more difficult in Montreal because he won't have Dion Phaneuf as a partner nor will he have Miikka Kiprusoff in goal. The fact is a large part of Phaneuf's success was the result of playing with Hamrlik during the past two seasons and, whoever winds up playing in goal for Montreal, might have better numbers with Hamrlik on defence.

Hamrlik could play a key role in the development of another young defenceman, Ryan O'Byrne. There are some question marks about his readiness to play in the NHL, but a veteran like Hamrlik could cover up some of his deficiencies.

Hamrlik also gives the Canadiens more flexibility because, while he is a left-handed shot, he can play either side."

Hickey knows his hockey...

I live in Calgary. Why don't you read what some of the calgary writers have written about Hamrlik while he was here. Yes he was good for Dion, but the guy makes a lot of bonehead plays. He isn't going to be the human pylon that SOuray was, but he will make a lot of stupid passes and terrible turnovers.

[hab29RETIRED]

one more point i want to add is that if the habs were going to over-pay, i would much preferred them tendering an offer sheet to an RFA rather then the UFA's they signed. Preferably one in their own conferance, so that if the other team does end up matching they may get screwed by being up against the cap.

I would have preferred them offering the $7.5M they spent to someone like Vanek.

[saskhab]

You cant judge on his way of running the bussines, cuz you're not there. All you can judge is the outcome...and its true that its not living up to the expectations. (but those are always to high)

I wasn't comparing the business in terms of revenues vs expenditures, from all angles that apparently is doing well since we're keeping pace in terms of payroll with the high end of the cap and still making money. I was going in terms of productivity (i.e. results) vs payroll. We're spending more but getting the same results.

I don't see us getting rid of one of Bouillon or Dandenault unless we acquire a new player via trade. At this point we might as well pony up for Ryder and try and get a 3 year deal done with him if that's possible, even if it's for $4m per.

We have three roster spots available for players that weren't on the NHL team at the end of the year... They could go to any combination of Lahti, O'Byrne, Grabovski, Chipchura, Ferland, Milroy, or Cote. Murray is the only guy who was on the team last year that is in jeopardy, as well as Halak with Price coming up.