Spending Money - Part Deux

[Habsfan]

So 47.319 mil with Gorges, O'Byrne and Halak (and Sundin ) to be signed.

During his press conference yesterday, Bob said that the Habs have started to look in another direction(regarding Sundin). If Sundin ever changes his mind, and approaches the Habs, he said they would definitely look into it, but they will no longer "chase" after him.

Let's not forget that once we have Gorges, O'Byrne and Halak signed, our Cap number will be at approximately 49.5 million$, which would leave us with less than 7 millon to resign Sundin....which i don't think will be enough!

[Zowpeb]

During his press conference yesterday, Bob said that the Habs have started to look in another direction(regarding Sundin). If Sundin ever changes his mind, and approaches the Habs, he said they would definitely look into it, but they will no longer "chase" after him.

Let's not forget that once we have Gorges, O'Byrne and Halak signed, our Cap number will be at approximately 49.5 million$, which would leave us with less than 7 millon to resign Sundin....which i don't think will be enough!

Yeah, but they could easily make additional room...for example, they could easily live without Begin and Dandy, or even Bouillon, by sending them through waivers to the AHL. Gives them veteran depth if they pass through waivers and clears them off the cap. There are ways around cap issues...

[Habitforming]

During his press conference yesterday, Bob said that the Habs have started to look in another direction(regarding Sundin). If Sundin ever changes his mind, and approaches the Habs, he said they would definitely look into it, but they will no longer "chase" after him.

Let's not forget that once we have Gorges, O'Byrne and Halak signed, our Cap number will be at approximately 49.5 million$, which would leave us with less than 7 millon to resign Sundin....which i don't think will be enough!

It will be enough. Don't forget guys like Dandy, and Kosto that have to go somewhere. They don't have a roster spot and that means a trade or waivers to the minors freeing up even more cash.

there are always options to cut the payroll... look at Philly right now ($800,000+ over the cap) and they are after Boyle and his $6.6M deal!

[Habsfan]

Yeah, but they could easily make additional room...for example, they could easily live without Begin and Dandy, or even Bouillon,

I wouldn'T be surprised to see Dandy go, but I wouldn'T let go of Bouillon. This guy gives it everything he's got everynight and is solid defensively.

[dlbalr]

Actual Cap hit ...yes they are right.

They're right with the 47 and change figure if you assume Chipchura is a lock to make the roster, I know I'm certainly not making that assumption because if another forward is signed (particularly a centre), there is absolutely no room for him, and there's no point in making a guy with a cap hit just under 1 million a healthy scratch when he's eligible to go to the minors.

[Jean]

I wouldn'T be surprised to see Dandy go, but I wouldn'T let go of Bouillon. This guy gives it everything he's got everynight and is solid defensively.

True,true

Dandenault is definitively the odd man out in our lineup right now. I dont think he'll be a Habs at this time next year.

[JMMR]

True,true

Dandenault is definitively the odd man out in our lineup right now. I dont think he'll be a Habs at this time next year.

Of course he wont be the real question is will he be a Hab come October\.

[JAB]

I really think gainey is willing to wait for sundin even if he waits until september to make a decision. in his press conference gainey seemed satisfied with his current 4 centers so I dont think he'll sign anyone unless its sundin, primarily because he is the only UFA centre that would help our team. If they do sign sundin, he will be the 23rd player on the roster which is the limit. But I really don't think they need to carry 3 spare players on the team. i think gainey will try to move dandy and then sign brisebois for 700,00k (because gainey mentioned that he wants 7 defencemen)....that would save a million dollars. He should also try to trade or waive begin or kostop (even though I really like those guys) to save another million. That would leave us with 9 million for sundin. I think sundin would sign with us for 8 or 9 million...we have much more to offer than vancouver besides that extra million dolllars.

[Fanpuck33]

STOP THINKING WE CAN STILL OFFER SUNDIN 8 MILLION! If we give Sundin 8 million and dump Begin and Dandy, that only leave 4 million to sign O'Byrne, Gorges, Halak, and a 7th D-man. They'll be lucky to sign 4 players for 4 million, and even then they would be straddling the cap. They'd go over the cap if they called someone up to fill in for injuries that aren't long enough to qualify for cap relief, and they wouldn't be able to make any moves at the trade deadline.

[JAB]

STOP THINKING WE CAN STILL OFFER SUNDIN 8 MILLION! If we give Sundin 8 million and dump Begin and Dandy, that only leave 4 million to sign O'Byrne, Gorges, Halak, and a 7th D-man. They'll be lucky to sign 4 players for 4 million, and even then they would be straddling the cap. They'd go over the cap if they called someone up to fill in for injuries that aren't long enough to qualify for cap relief, and they wouldn't be able to make any moves at the trade deadline.

Gainey offered sundin close to eight million prior to the vancouver offer....If gainey thinks its possible then im pretty sure its possible. obyrne georges and halak shouldnt cost more then 4 million...and I think they will only sign a 7th D if dandenault is moved.

[Fanpuck33]

Gainey offered sundin close to eight million prior to the vancouver offer....If gainey thinks its possible then im pretty sure its possible. obyrne georges and halak shouldnt cost more then 4 million...and I think they will only sign a 7th D if dandenault is moved.

That was before Laraque was signed for 1.5 million a year.

Dude, just look at the stinking numbers. If we give Sundin 8 million, we have only 1.2 million to sign our RFAs back. That means Dandy would have to go to make room for a cheaper 7th D, and even then we're still talking about trying to sign the 3 RFAs for 2 million. It's just not plausible to give Sundin 8 million unless they're gonna dump two players and use every bit of cap space they have. I think we all know Gainey isn't the type of GM to handcuff himself by going right up against the cap with no wiggle room.

P.S. The man's name is Gorges.

[JAB]

That was before Laraque was signed for 1.5 million a year.

Dude, just look at the stinking numbers. If we give Sundin 8 million, we have only 1.2 million to sign our RFAs back. That means Dandy would have to go to make room for a cheaper 7th D, and even then we're still talking about trying to sign the 3 RFAs for 2 million. It's just not plausible to give Sundin 8 million unless they're gonna dump two players and use every bit of cap space they have. I think we all know Gainey isn't the type of GM to handcuff himself by going right up against the cap with no wiggle room.

P.S. The man's name is Gorges.

your almost saying the exact things I was in my initial post. I said that the habs would have to dump 2 players and sign a cheaper 7th D (maybe brisebois) in order to have the money to sign sundin...so I really dont know why your being so critical. Im just saying that if gainey really wants sundin, it might be possible with a couple of player moves and if sundin is willing to sign for somewhere between 7 and 8 million.

P.S didnt think I needed to proof read my posts to meet your spelling standards...chill dude

[lazy26]

Fanpuck33 is correct: the numbers game certainly isn't clearcut or easy, and there are other players to sign. BUT if Sundin agrees to come to MTL for $8 million, Gainey will find a way to make it work. I have no doubt that he will.

If Mats does play for us, i see him signing for Hossa-money ($7.4 million)

[Fanpuck33]

your almost saying the exact things I was in my initial post. I said that the habs would have to dump 2 players and sign a cheaper 7th D (maybe brisebois) in order to have the money to sign sundin...so I really dont know why your being so critical. Im just saying that if gainey really wants sundin, it might be possible with a couple of player moves and if sundin is willing to sign for somewhere between 7 and 8 million.

P.S didnt think I needed to proof read my posts to meet your spelling standards...chill dude

No, you're saying it's no problem and I'm saying it's next to impossible. You also say we can offer 9 million. If they drop Begin and Dandenault and give Sundin 9 million, they only have 3 million dollars to sign the three RFAs and a spare D. That's NEVER gonna happen. Even giving him 8 million is unrealistic, they only have 4 million left. O'Byrne and Gorges will likely both sign for just under a million, so we'll say 1.8 million for the two of them. Spare D will run us 800k, so we're up to 2.6 million. That leaves 1.4 million for Halak. That is possibly reasonable. However, that would leave us with only one spare player at forward and on defense. If we have to call a guy up to fill in for a minor injury, then all of a sudden we're over the cap. Giving Sundin 8 million at this point just doesn't make sense for the team. Gainey isn't a man to leave himself with no wiggle room. I still think signing him is a distinct possibility, but not for our initial offer. If he wants to be a Hab, he's cost himself some money by waiting so long. If he doesn't make a decision before training camp opens, then I want no part of him. Not fair for the guys who are there from day one for a veteran to just come in and take someone's job.

P.S. It's misspelling I see quite often around the net. It's a person's name, it deserves respect.

[JAB]

No, you're saying it's no problem and I'm saying it's next to impossible. You also say we can offer 9 million. If they drop Begin and Dandenault and give Sundin 9 million, they only have 3 million dollars to sign the three RFAs and a spare D. That's NEVER gonna happen. Even giving him 8 million is unrealistic, they only have 4 million left. O'Byrne and Gorges will likely both sign for just under a million, so we'll say 1.8 million for the two of them. Spare D will run us 800k, so we're up to 2.6 million. That leaves 1.4 million for Halak. That is possibly reasonable. However, that would leave us with only one spare player at forward and on defense. If we have to call a guy up to fill in for a minor injury, then all of a sudden we're over the cap. Giving Sundin 8 million at this point just doesn't make sense for the team. Gainey isn't a man to leave himself with no wiggle room. I still think signing him is a distinct possibility, but not for our initial offer. If he wants to be a Habs, he's cost himself some money by waiting so long. If he doesn't make a decision before training camp opens, then I want no part of him. Not fair for the guys who are there from day one for a veteran to just come in and take someone's job.

P.S. It's misspelling I see quite often around the net. It's a person's name, it deserves respect.

signing sundin at 8 million and dropping dandy and begin leaves us with approximately 4.15 mil to sign our 3 rfas and a spare D. I usually go to nhlscap.com for the numbers.

Wiggle room is only important if the team is looking to add someone at the trade deadline. When a player gets injured his salary that he would have made for the games he missed gets deducted from the cap while the replacement player's salary gets added. Injuries could actually save cap space for teams. However im not sure if this applies to all injuries or only if the player is placed on the IR.

[lazy26]

signing sundin at 8 million and dropping dandy and begin leaves us with approximately 4.15 mil to sign our 3 rfas and a spare D. I usually go to nhlscap.com for the numbers.

Wiggle room is only important if the team is looking to add someone at the trade deadline. When a player gets injured his salary that he would have made for the games he missed gets deducted from the cap while the replacement player's salary gets added. Injuries could actually save cap space for teams. However im not sure if this applies to all injuries or only if the player is placed on the IR.

I think that until the player is placed on the IR, his salary counts against the cap. However, that cap hit for the missed games due to injury can be retroactively deducted after the fact once he is placed on the IR.

[saskhab]

A couple of points here:

1. If Sundin is signed, Chipchura doesn't make the team. Scratch him off the list. I'd also drop Stewart, he's included on my total.

2. If Sundin is signed, Dandy is going. This has been said many times as well.

3. The RFA's shouldn't require a lot. O'Byrne should accept his qualifying offer, which is $590 000 + 10%, so $649 000. Gorges and Halak I can't see getting much more than $1m each. Then the 7th d-man should be around $750 000. So yes, I do expect us to come in under $4m for all 4 players.

So that means we should be able to comfortably sign Sundin at $7m per. $7.5m gets tighter, but could be doable. $8m does seem to require an additional player getting moved.

[JLP]

It's a person's name, it deserves respect.

Don't lets be sanctimonious now ~ should we be proofing posts for umlauts, accents and other diacritics?

*sigh* this is a hockey board not the Encyclopedia Britannica.

but yeah, ok, try to get the names right guys, Fanpuck is a schoolteacher after all . . . (by the way, Fanpuck, it's "Bégin" not "Begin." It's a person's name, it deserves respect )

back on topic there are always ways to fiddle with finances, maybe another move is in the works, in any case Habs offering $8m to Mats is far from impossible. The first question is whether he will play or retire, the second is whether he will go to the highest bidder or to the more desirable team, as he sees it.

[CoRvInA]

So that means we should be able to comfortably sign Sundin at $7m per. $7.5m gets tighter, but could be doable. $8m does seem to require an additional player getting moved.

U know that extra 500k could make a reasonable excuse to put someone on waivers or just buy them out... e.g. Dandy... I'm sure he'd dislike more being put on waivers when the team could afford him rather than when the team couldn't

[Fanpuck33]

but yeah, ok, try to get the names right guys, Fanpuck is a schoolteacher after all . . . (by the way, Fanpuck, it's "Bégin" not "Begin." It's a person's name, it deserves respect )

If the difference between "Bégin" not "Begin" meant anything, then he'd have the former on the back of his jersey, instead of the latter. Also, I don't know how to make the "é" without copying and pasting it. I've asked people how to do it and nobody has ever been helpful.

Seeing things like "Hamrlik," "Fedorov," etc. just grinds my gears.

[CoRvInA]

they are called ASCII characters

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCII

é = while pressing down alt key type 130 in the num pad (works on normal keyboard not in my laptop) .....but Begin is fine

[Fanpuck33]

they are called ASCII characters

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCII

é = while pressing down alt key type 130 in the num pad (works on normal keyboard not in my laptop) .....but Begin is fine

I also use a laptop, so it doesn't work.

[dlbalr]

For the record, the buyout period is over with, so let's stop any sort of discussion about that. Dandenault will not and cannot be bought out, period. The Habs have no one going to arbitration so the little loophole about buying guys out in August retroactive to June does not apply to the team. The only way to move these alleged useless salaries is via trade/waivers.

The reason I say alleged is that I think expiring contracts will slowly be increasing in value, a lot like the NBA. A team that needs to get up to the floor may see an expiring deal like Begin/Dandenault as a lot more of an asset that some people think - they get to the floor, and no long-term ramifications. That's not to say that the other team will get a big return for said contract, but if you find the right team at the right time (probably more towards training camp and then at the deadline), something could work out.

[habs rule]

I really don't know how serious Bob is a bout the big luvable dummy swede. there are rumours he is taking a serious look at shanahan which woud probably end all the questions, at any rate I don't think he is actively persuing the BLDS at this time

[simonus]

I also use a laptop, so it doesn't work.

add the french keyboard to your languages in control panel, then switch to it when you want to type in French. Probably not enough accents in your daily typing to merit that.