JoeLassister Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 How about a stats talking place for our Habs ? Just want to highlight that the Habs are leading the NHL for 5on5 goals for/goals against ratio. http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?fetch...iewName=summary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumGhost Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 I guess its also worth noting the top five +/- in the NHL look something like this: 1. Saku Koivu +7 2. Andrei Markov +7 3. Alex Tanguay +6 4. Alexander Semin +6 5. Mike Komisarek +6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Latendresse would be number 6 on that list. He's at +5! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HABBER-oooooKNOWS Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 I guess its also worth noting the top five +/- in the NHL look something like this: 1. Saku Koivu +7 2. Andrei Markov +7 3. Alex Tanguay +6 4. Alexander Semin +6 5. Mike Komisarek +6 Funny how that stat inflates when you have a great goalie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Funny how that stat inflates when you have a great goalie. That doesn't explain Semin's +/-! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Funny how that stat inflates when you have a great goalie. How are Chicago players doing in that category? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 (edited) Funny how that stat inflates when you have a great goalie. +/- stats are a reflection of the entire team...not just one player. If your team sucks and you have a good goalie in nets, it doesn't insure that most players will have a positive +/- rating! Edited October 21, 2008 by Habsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HABBER-oooooKNOWS Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 (edited) How are Chicago players doing in that category? There are three Black Hawks in the top 150 players we have 10. What are you trying to say? Huet blows? I like Huet, it's Theo who blows. =/- stats are a reflection of the entire team...not just one player. If your team sucks and you have a good goalie in nets, it doesn't insure that most players will have a positive =/- rating! really? Thanks for letting me know, I'll keep that info in my back pocket during the season. Just kidding, I know but with Price only giving up minimal goals this year it will pad our boys stats. Shit Markov may finally look like a norris candidate. I think Price will have a lot to do with that. Oh by the way to make that little plus(+) sign you need to press the shift key. Edited October 20, 2008 by HABBER-oooooKNOWS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 A .939 SV% is unsustainable. Hopefully our boys tighten up in the shots against department... we can't keep being a +2 overall while giving up more shots than we take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMPL Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Markov's stats are amazing! As well as Lats, Tangs, Koivu, Sergie, and others. Imagine if the Plex, Kosty, Kovy line was playing as they usually do, we'd be unstopable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dark_faerie87 Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 I like how we're among the top-five in both GF/game and GA/game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HABBER-oooooKNOWS Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 (edited) +/- stats are a reflection of the entire team...not just one player. If your team sucks and you have a good goalie in nets, it doesn't insure that most players will have a positive =/- rating! ehhmmmmmmmm*sound of thraot being cleared* edit again. Edited October 21, 2008 by HABBER-oooooKNOWS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 ehhmmmmmmmm*sound of thraot being cleared* edit again. Jezus christ of Latterday Saints you are annoying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMPL Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Jezus christ of Latterday Saints you are annoying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 How about a stats talking place Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14% of people know that. Thanks Homer !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zowpeb Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I always thought the NHL needs a better set of core stats made available...there are a bunch of situational stats but that's it. I'd like to see improved data on defensive players...+/- doesn't cover it effectively at all. More emphasis needs to be given to the fact that players don't play equal minutes. Further, some of the stats are not well defined and don't really add value. - The 2nd assist is sometimes a useless point but carries equal weight in player stats. - The GTG stats are based on who ties the game...but in reality a GTG occurs everytime a goal ties a game regardless of whether it ends in a tie. - Scoring chances is poorly defined and really unreliable. The core goalie stats are much better. Sv%; GAA; W; SO. Clearly defined, easy to calculate, no really unreliable data. I assume that NHL teams have a broader base of stats that they track, compile and breakdown...I'd be interested to know what they use... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I assume that NHL teams have a broader base of stats that they track, compile and breakdown...I'd be interested to know what they use... I don't know if it's the NHL that carries these "extra" stats, but I know that many player agents do. For example, MIke Komisarek's agent will not put the emphasis on his clients number of goals and assists, but more on his ice time, number of bodychecks and blocked-shots. He will also point out Komo's +/- but you already mentionned that stat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zowpeb Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 (edited) I don't know if it's the NHL that carries these "extra" stats, but I know that many player agents do. For example, MIke Komisarek's agent will not put the emphasis on his clients number of goals and assists, but more on his ice time, number of bodychecks and blocked-shots. He will also point out Komo's +/- but you already mentionned that stat! Clearly an agent will pull stats that best reflect on the players they're selling...but I'm more referring to stat breakdowns that we likely don't get to see at all. Someone must look at point production by which line they play on, or teammates they play with, based on blocks of minutes played per game to see when fatigue becomes a factor...stuff like that. I'd like to see more breakdowns on ATOI total, ATOI for PP and SH, etc... I also wonder if there are defensive stats that teams use, either whole team or individual, that we just don't know about or just don't see broken down in a certain way... I'm sure they look at stuff like which PP plays have created the most goals. Which SH combination of players and styles has limited teams the most. Or, 2 forecheckers has been more effective then single forechecker which we know by X stat tracking... The whole points, goal, assits, +/- is great for fantasy pools because it simple but a more in-depth stat system would be interesting to see...of course, you have to have the underlying data to formulate a lot of it and the NHL doesn't really publish a tonne of data. Might even help the NHL build a fan-base...sometimes I think fans are drawn to the MLB based on stats... Edited October 27, 2008 by Zowpeb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I assume that NHL teams have a broader base of stats that they track, compile and breakdown...I'd be interested to know what they use... They do and its called Cambellnomics. Its a better way to see who is really more valuable. Just looking at points and stats doesnt always show who is more valuable. When you look at 2 20 goal scorers you dont know which player is better unless you look at the Cambellnomics. For example the 1 20 goal scorer could have got all 20 goals in shutout blowout games where as the other guy could have 20 game winning goals and you would never know by the stats alone. Cambellnomics gets its name from its inventor Cambell from The Hockey News. Cambellnomics rates Goals as 1 point, and Assists as 0.5 points. Then the points are rated not just when they occur in a game but what the score was when they occured. ex 1st goal of the game is worth two points. Likewize goals in blowout games where the player is basically just padding their stats because it has 0 effect on that game are worth just 1. Go ahead goals and tieing goals are worth 2 but scoring when its 6-0 to make it 7-0 is only worth 1 because your team would win regardless of that 7th goal. That 7th goal truely has no effect on the outcome of the game. More info: http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/1499...rt-toppers.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy Ryder Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Stats wise and unwise oct 31. Team 5-5 Habs are ranked 3th in the league F/A 1.45 WOW and Detroit are sitting 1.05. With 11 penalties killed they jumped to only 85%, that is still freakin good enough. PP at 17%(ranked 17th) is not even clicking yet. Individuals Markov is 1st in scoring for defensemen (3 players at 11pts) Price is 1st in the GAA at 1.91 3th in Save % in the league at .937 Blocked shots Komisarek 1st inthe league with 39. +/- Koivu +9 Ranked 2th league Tanguay +7 Ranked 4th in the league Michael Ryder +6 11th in the league (I am not kidding WTF!!!) Hits Komisarek has 38 hits ranked 4th Shooting % Tanguay is 2 second in the league. Shoot Alex, shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 Clearly an agent will pull stats that best reflect on the players they're selling...but I'm more referring to stat breakdowns that we likely don't get to see at all. Someone must look at point production by which line they play on, or teammates they play with, based on blocks of minutes played per game to see when fatigue becomes a factor...stuff like that. I'd like to see more breakdowns on ATOI total, ATOI for PP and SH, etc... I also wonder if there are defensive stats that teams use, either whole team or individual, that we just don't know about or just don't see broken down in a certain way... I'm sure they look at stuff like which PP plays have created the most goals. Which SH combination of players and styles has limited teams the most. Or, 2 forecheckers has been more effective then single forechecker which we know by X stat tracking... The whole points, goal, assits, +/- is great for fantasy pools because it simple but a more in-depth stat system would be interesting to see...of course, you have to have the underlying data to formulate a lot of it and the NHL doesn't really publish a tonne of data. Might even help the NHL build a fan-base...sometimes I think fans are drawn to the MLB based on stats... If you want some geek/advanced stats, check out this guy's work: http://www.behindthenet.ca/ EVERYTHING gets broken down into even strength (even seperating 4 on 4 with 5 on 5), PP, SH totals, and there's some interesting ratios/indexes created that produce some unique results in terms of player effectiveness/ineffectiveness. Quality of Competiton is also incredibly interesting dimension taken into account... There's tons of work being done on the internet to really get some better stats for hockey, and this guy is probably the leader of the group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Some statistical notes of interest after 13 games: As a team: Tied for second in goals per game (3.46) - not a surprise considering the talent level on the team. What should please fans most of all is that the Habs have done it while rarely putting in more than 30 minutes of really hard work per game. Tied in 8th place in goals against per game (2.46) - again, you can look at the inability so far to string together solid games. Furthermore, take away three goals from that debacle against the Leafs, and you suddenly have a really interesting picture. 3rd!!! overall in 5v5 goals ratio (1.35) - anyone who's followed the Habs for the past few years know they've stunk out the joint at 5v5; this is a massive improvement and one of the reasons this team is scary. 14th PP and 11th PK (18.2/83.1) - the powerplay has been disappointing so far, but there has to be an adjustment after losing a player of Streit's calibre. That said, there's obviously more than enough talent to get back to the lofty heights of 23 and 24% which would be great. The PK is doing well enough, though it should be noted that the best teams are at 90%. Carbo and Gainey indicated years ago that adding the two percentages together should be over 100 for a team that has aspirations at the playoffs. We're above. 9th in shots for and 21st in shots against per game (30.8/31.3) - fairly obvious that we need to close the door a little better defensively. Faceoff percentage is 9th in the NHL at 51.6% - still room for improvement there. 24th in the league in PIM's per game against (18.6m) - now that's something that has to improve. The Habs are in the box way too much. #1 overall in +/- (13) - always good to score more than your opponent, even better as the difference gets higher. Individually against the league: Koivu is tied for third in +/- (9) - arguably one of the most meaningless stats, and yet so many put so much emphasis on it. Last week two out of three 'experts' polled indicated that it was a junk stat. Sorry, I don't have the link for that. Tanguay is 22nd overall in scoring (15) - this tells me the team is scoring by committee; the best way to achieve success. No one line is dominating, the entire team is causing opponents fits. Kostopoulous leads the team in PIMs (33) - gawd love Laraque for being in Montreal even just as a figurehead and intimidation factor, but early returns say he's not offering the team much except just that: bodyguard protection. Koivu is 7th in the league in faceoff % (57.5) - that's a huge number, though it is early. It should be noted, however, that only two players have larger percentages (Brind'Amour and Andy McDonald) who have more ice time. Komisarek is 2nd in hits (52) and Latendresse is 26th (38) - for Komi it's expected, but it's a real bonus to see Tender so high in the rankings. Hits quite often equate to turnovers; he may not be lighting the lamp as much, but he's still making things happen. Komisarek leads the league in blocked shots (46) and Hamr is 16th (32) - unsung hero stat here. It doesn't get talked about much, but even if three of those shots from each player goes in, Montreal doesn't look nearly so good. These are the little things that win games... and championships. Markov is worst in the league at giveaways (25) and Kovalev is 29th (14) - the latter is expected; a highly skilled attacker tries to make things happen and ends up losing the puck - there's probably little complaint there. Markov, however, is a gigantic surprise, at least to me. Koivu is 28th in the league in takeaways (13) - this stat is a testament to a player digging and never giving up; it also demonstrates hand-eye coordination and quick reflexes. Individually within the team: Three players are point-per-game and five are double digit scorers - now THAT is balance. Two players are minus players, three are even - the better news is that, amongst the positive players, only three have played less than ten games. There are no real artifically enhanced numbers from playing in one or two good games. Laraque has 19 PIMs: Does this mean he's inducing fear, or not getting involved? Probably a combination of the two, considering the early season has him still getting over an injury. Of the 22 used, one single player has less than 10m/game of playing time - what a fascinating stat! That means Carbo is consistently rolling four lines and he feels there are no real holes in the lineup. The player with the least time? Laraque. Kovalev is the only forward over 20 minutes. Robert Lang is the only faceoff man less than 50% (45.8) - Koivu, Lapierre (54.0) and Plex (51.2) are all doing very well. One has to be disappointed with the return of Lang in this department. Three of the top four hitters on the team are forwards - does that indicate a softness on defense? Cube is 5th and his hits per game is huge; if he'd played the whole season, he'd be top 2 I think. Seven players have ten or more blocked shots - now THAT is a team willing to do what it takes. Kovalev can't shoot (20 missed shots) - obviously an exaggeration, but something to be aware of; if he hits the net on all those, I'd suspect he'd put in at least a couple more. Lesson here kids? Hit the net. Koivu's takeaway to giveaway ration is +8 (13/5) - that's huge, nobody else has more than two, and the bulk are in the negatives. Well, there you have it. I'm not sure what it all means, though certainly the team is doing extremely well, so these stats are all pretty good. I think we can all get an idea of where improvement is needed (though just watching them play should be indication enough). There were a few surprises: Koivu's 13 takeaways and massive faceoff percentage, the equality of ice time across the board, the 5v5 quality of the team this season, the relatively poor showing of the PP compared to the talent on the ice. Well, some fodder for discussion anyhow. Enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Re: Markov and giveaways... he leads the team in icetime, and is the PP QB. I'd assume a lot of the giveaways are either a) stretch passes, or b) cross ice passes on the PP. The fact is, he has the puck on his stick A LOT. That will mean he turns the puck over a fair bit. He also is one of the defensive leaders in points, so I think you have to look at this more in a ratio scenario than as a "shocking" stat for Andrei. He is asked to make plays, and there will be high negative stats in this regard as a result. But he's got a high positive stat as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Wow colin what a post! You had the day off and did not know what to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 colin is a good colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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