JoeLassister Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I cannot understand how anyone thinks Mike Komisarek is worth anything more than $4 Million a year. So what if hes big. The guy got schooled badly by Milan Lucic. He provides absolutley nothing offensively and when not paired with Andrei Markov, looks like a 5th or 6th defenseman at best. I am going to be so dissapointed if anybody signs this guy for more than $4 to $4.5 Million a year for a long term contract. Obviously that whole lockout was bullshit I cannot understant how anyone thinks Mike Komisarek will not sign for less than 5M$ for 5 years. Jeff freaking Finger received 3,5M$ !!! And you're right, the whole lockout was bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 The boldfaced part is the aspect of your argument that worries me a bit. That Lucic beat him up proves only that Komisarek is not a FIGHTER. It doesn't mean that he isn't a bone-cruching checker and elite shutdown guy. With Komi, we need to have memories more than a year long. He played hurt most of last season, and like the rest of the team seemed confused and lacking confidence. But for the two years prior to 08-09 he was universally regarded as an emerging top-end shutdown guy, and in 07-08 he was top-5 in the NHL in that capacity (and he did it, incidentally, without dropping the gloves and pounding on guys). He is turning 27 - in other words, he hasn't hit his prime yet and is likely just about to enter it. It's not unusual for players who came into the league young to have a 'setback' season around 25 or 26 (c.f. Mike Ribeiro, who took a step back at 25/26 and then surged forward). So last season isn't everything. I don't say that we *should* pay $5.5 mil for Komi. It's possible he is a mirage created by Markov (but then, how come Markov didn't make him look better last season? And let's remember he was a 1st-round pick and highly touted on his own merits). Ultimately I tend to agree with BTH. You can't keep bleeding assets, waiting for the mythic Perfect Player to show up before you fork over the money. Doug Harvey isn't about to stroll around the corner; and Komi will be the third top-4 defenceman we'll have lost in three seasons - how is that a recipe for success? Last season aside, Komi looks like a bona fide 'core' player to me. Those are the guys you lock up. ADDENDUM: as for the topic of this thread, this article pretty much has Bob himself declaring that he is bound and determined to find that star C we're all obsessed about. So perhaps the real surprise will be if he doesn't land one after a declaration this blunt and public: http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Habs...2910/story.html But the question is are Mark Streit and Sheldon Souray top 4 on a GOOD team? It was a mistake to not trade Souray in 2007, but it was not a mistake to keep Streit last season. Would the Habs be a better team with Souray, Markov and Streit taking up $15M and looking to reup Komi at $5M+ as well? $20M wrapped up on ONE sure fire top pairing defenseman? If you can't bring in another top D-man you have to sign Komisarek and just allocate the money that Hammer will free up to Komi in 2 seasons while you benefit from Subban, McDonagh and Weber at cheap rates. It sucks to overpay, but you have to bite the bullet. At the end of the day if you feel he is a $5M dman, does it make sense to create that big a hole for the sake of $500K? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 (edited) But the question is are Mark Streit and Sheldon Souray top 4 on a GOOD team? It was a mistake to not trade Souray in 2007, but it was not a mistake to keep Streit last season. Would the Habs be a better team with Souray, Markov and Streit taking up $15M and looking to reup Komi at $5M+ as well? $20M wrapped up on ONE sure fire top pairing defenseman? If you can't bring in another top D-man you have to sign Komisarek and just allocate the money that Hammer will free up to Komi in 2 seasons while you benefit from Subban, McDonagh and Weber at cheap rates. It sucks to overpay, but you have to bite the bullet. At the end of the day if you feel he is a $5M dman, does it make sense to create that big a hole for the sake of $500K? Well, Wamsley, like you, I think Komi is quite a different case from the other two (Souray and Streit). Souray is a truly one dimensional player (best point shot in all of hockey; a 5th defenceman in every other way). Streit could have gone either way, but his defensive game for us was pathetic. Komisarek, though, brings everything you could possibly ask for in a defenceman from his own blueline in, including intangibles like leadership - and is quite likely to improve given his age. To me, then, he is the litmus test. Losing Streit and Souray is OK by me provided we keep Komisarek: that is sensible (arguably excellent) asset management. Losing Streit, Souray AND Komisarek, though, amounts to a pattern of indiscriminately frittering away major players for nothing. As I've been saying for some time, the outcome of the Komisarek dossier will be a pivotal factor in Gainey's overall performance as asset managent. As for whether the lockout was bullshit, look at the mess the Rangers and Philly are in, not to mention teams like Tampa, and you tell me. The cap system gradually punishes teams that mismanage their assets. It doesn't happen overnight. Edited June 26, 2009 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 (edited) Streit would have been worth the $4 Million. And Montreal probably could have had him cheaper. Had Bob tabled him an offer during the season How can you tell? Look at the Powerplay. They lost Souray and Streit stepped in and Montreal stillhad the best powerplay in the league. It was their weapon, which made the competive. You could not take penalities agains the Canadiens or they would score on you. Look at those two seasons. They were shooting at almost a 30% clip on the powerplay. We took that for granted Striet walks away in Free Agency, and Montreals powerplay drops towards the bottom of the league. Low and behold, Montreal drops from 1st in the east to 8th. Coincidence? I think not And Streit was versatile play defense and was a 3rd and 4th line player. Losing him really hurt this club Not only that, but Bob probably does not have to trade for Schneider this year, and we still have a second rd pick. Lets all wait and see in a few years who Atlanta drafts and how they turn out, or who might have been available. Lets hope its not another Lucic or Bergeron. Edited June 26, 2009 by kaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhfarber Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Streit would have been worth the $4 Million. And Montreal probably could have had him cheaper. Had Bob tabled him an offer during the season How can you tell? Look at the Powerplay. They lost Souray and Streit stepped in and Montreal stillhad the best powerplay in the league. It was their weapon, which made the competive. You could not take penalities agains the Canadiens or they would score on you. Look at those two seasons. They were shooting at almost a 30% clip on the powerplay. We took that for granted Striet walks away in Free Agency, and Montreals powerplay drops towards the bottom of the league. Low and behold, Montreal drops from 1st in the east to 8th. Coincidence? I think not And Streit was versatile play defense and was a 3rd and 4th line player. Losing him really hurt this club Not only that, but Bob probably does not have to trade for Schneider this year, and we still have a second rd pick. Lets all wait and see in a few years who Atlanta drafts and how they turn out, or who might have been available. Lets hope its not another Lucic or Bergeron. On the Schneider trade though lets keep this in mind. We traded Atlanta our 2nd round pick (45th overall) and also got back Atlanta's 3rd round pick (65th overall). By saying that we gave up our 2nd for Schneider is deceptive. Really we moved down 20 spots in the draft for a half season of Mathieu Schneider ( who when healthy made a difference on our PP). Good trade IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 BG was stuck at that point. He had a team free falling, A PP that didn't do anything, a defense that i believe my rec team team to score on or atleast put up 40 shots. BG and others had high expectations so he had to do whatever he could to get him in the playoffs. A PP quarterback fit the bill. I personally wouldn't resign him, his better days are behind him but what do i know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitforming Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 (edited) So this entire thread boils down to the entire team should shut down and fire everyone because no one wants to come here, they can't draft etc etc etc..... Oh... and Komi isn't worth even $4M because Lucic hurt him in a fight. Lucic must be worth the $11M max salary in the league huh? Are you like a "really mature for your age" 11 year old or something? Edited June 26, 2009 by Habitforming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 But the question is are Mark Streit and Sheldon Souray top 4 on a GOOD team? It was a mistake to not trade Souray in 2007, but it was not a mistake to keep Streit last season. Would the Habs be a better team with Souray, Markov and Streit taking up $15M and looking to reup Komi at $5M+ as well? $20M wrapped up on ONE sure fire top pairing defenseman? If you can't bring in another top D-man you have to sign Komisarek and just allocate the money that Hammer will free up to Komi in 2 seasons while you benefit from Subban, McDonagh and Weber at cheap rates. It sucks to overpay, but you have to bite the bullet. At the end of the day if you feel he is a $5M dman, does it make sense to create that big a hole for the sake of $500K? Well, Wamsley, like you, I think Komi is quite a different case from the other two (Souray and Streit). Souray is a truly one dimensional player (best point shot in all of hockey; a 5th defenceman in every other way). Streit could have gone either way, but his defensive game for us was pathetic. Komisarek, though, brings everything you could possibly ask for in a defenceman from his own blueline in, including intangibles like leadership - and is quite likely to improve given his age. To me, then, he is the litmus test. Losing Streit and Souray is OK by me provided we keep Komisarek: that is sensible (arguably excellent) asset management. Losing Streit, Souray AND Komisarek, though, amounts to a pattern of indiscriminately frittering away major players for nothing. As I've been saying for some time, the outcome of the Komisarek dossier will be a pivotal factor in Gainey's overall performance as asset managent. As for whether the lockout was bullshit, look at the mess the Rangers and Philly are in, not to mention teams like Tampa, and you tell me. The cap system gradually punishes teams that mismanage their assets. It doesn't happen overnight. Yes and yes... but you guys, and it's a very common habit, are overlooking one VERY IMPORTANT factor. Souray wasn't a #1 in Montreal, but was promised #1 quality icetime in Edmonton. We couldn't give that to him. Streit wasn't even #3 in Montreal and was promised #1 quality icetime with the Islanders. We couldn't give that to him. Yes, money is a factor. And in some instances, like Marian Hoe-ssa, you don't mind being behind a lot of guys, just to have a sure shot at the cup. But in many other instances, UFA want to be THE star. Arnott wasn't happy in Dallas cause he wasn't the #1 and went to Nashville because they were almost the only team to tell him he'd be their #1 center. Now with Komi, we CAN make him promises. Yes, you will play on the 1st pairing, yes you will play lots of PK, yes you will play above 20mins. Yes you will get paid like a superstar. I won't ever blame Gainey for not re-signing Streit and Souray... and even with Komi, it's not as if Bob isn't trying... I just think that Komi doesn't want to re-sign here. RE: signing FA earlier ... no guys, that doesn't work that way. The guy KNOWS that he's gonna be a FA in one year, if you want to buy out his FA status, you've GOTTA pay more than he is worth at that moment. So in our instances, we'd have given 5M to Plek and 4M to Higgins... however they showed last season that they didn't deserve that. As for Mike K, he knew he'd be a UFA, so he CAN wait it out and taste it... do you think he'll accept 3M because we're one year BEFORE? no... if anything, he might ask MORE... lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soflhabfan Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 i agree about j-bo. seems very reserved and shy. and please, no thornton. we have enough players who don't show up at crunch time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafikz Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Gainey already did something surprising yesterday. In fact, he smiled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Thornton will at least get you too crunch time. Who cares if Boumeester is shy. So is Markov. Boumeester does his job on the ice, that is all i care about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Thornton will at least get you too crunch time. Who cares if Boumeester is shy. So is Markov. Boumeester does his job on the ice, that is all i care about. yeah, did the guy actually say no to both Jaybo and Jailhouse Joe? LOL come on, they are better than ANYTHING on our team except for maybe Markov. we can't afford to spit on such super stars. I'd take them ANY DAY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Gainey already did something surprising yesterday. In fact, he smiled Pics or it didn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakiqc Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Then the ball is in Komi's hands now. Im quite sure Bob hasnt lowballed him. I'm sure too that the ball is in Komi's hand. He has the chance to get very well paid, live in one of the best city in the world + be the captain of one the most glorious team in history. (and we're not talking about SC 25 in 2010!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 This sucks - the only rumour sources right now are "I heard on radio" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I hope he signs but I hear the band warming up. I beleive it's the Steve Miller Band, "go on and take the money and run". It's becoming tradition, UFA D man leaves for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 This sucks - the only rumour sources right now are "I heard on radio" Better than "I just made up this"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Better than "I just made up this"... or hey guys, I'm new here, what do you think about: Ovechkin for Bouillon, Dandenault, Fischer, Perezhogin, Chipchura and a 3rd round pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 The other question of the hour: "Is a Mod going to fix the typo on the title of this thread?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Is Bob gonig to do somehting sruprising? fixed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 fixed lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 or hey guys, I'm new here, what do you think about: Ovechkin for Bouillon, Dandenault, Fischer, Perezhogin, Chipchura and a 3rd round pick But we can't trade Fischer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysix Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I expect Bob to do NADA. I won't let Bob ruin my friday night with high expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 This sucks - the only rumour sources right now are "I heard on radio" How about "I read in someone's status on Facebook..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Yeah Bob did something surprising alright. He caved to the pressure of the media and fans and took a local kid, whos never going to play in the NHL Why didnt you take Kreider Bob? Or move down? So dissapointing. Cant wait for football season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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