Permanent Rumour Thread

[BlueKross]

Oh, the size issue again! You can argue one way or the other all day long. It doesn't matter a damn what we think. The only thing that rules is what the draft teams think. Traditionally they covet size. I don't see that changing in the short term.

[Guest Stogey24]

So Commandant, your basically saying because the team won in the playoffs, it's OK that Desharnais does nothing and we continue to pay him 3.5 million a year.

We could also win games with Raph Diaz out there too. Does that mean he's adding anything to the line up? No.

[Guest Stogey24]

The Habs continued employment and especially deployment of DD is a laughingstock. I'm surprised the fancy stats mavens haven't pointed out that in DDs best seasons he was given over 60% offensive zone starts/the softest minutes on the team, the best wingers, a minute fifteen on the powerplay, the best everything, and at his apex three seasons ago he was an average #1 center numbers wise. This is a guy who brings nothing to the table when he isn't scoring as well. He's a joke. The arguments for him are close to what people here said about Gomez, ie, a handful of excuses followed by "if not him, who?"

Let's not forget either that DD had about fifteen solid games on a 19-4 team as a third line center. That's not the ideal situation for him. He's a scorer, unfortunately just not in this league. I think he'd do very well in the KHL.

It's a joke. He's one of the most one dimensional players there is.

I'd seriously like to see where this guy ends up when he's finished with the Habs. I doubt it's even in the NHL at this point. Or he'll sign a 1 year deal with a team, then off to Europe

[Commandant]

So Commandant, your basically saying because the team won in the playoffs, it's OK that Desharnais does nothing and we continue to pay him 3.5 million a year.

We could also win games with Raph Diaz out there too. Does that mean he's adding anything to the line up? No.

I said he was overpaid and should be one of the pieces we try to move.

If we can't move him, then I don't think him playing on the third line is something that makes it... IMPOSSIBLE to win in the playoffs, i think that is over the top hyperbole.

He can be a decent third liner, just overpaid.

As for doing nothing in the playoffs... he's been heavily checked in a first line role. A role he's never been suited for. Throughout his career he's better at ES than PP. Playing third line minutes, against weaker defensive pairs, I do believe he would be able to supply offense in that spot. Things get a lot easier when you aren't the focus of the number 1 defensive pair of the other team.

[habs rule]

I said he was overpaid and should be one of the pieces we try to move.

If we can't move him, then I don't think him playing on the third line is something that makes it... IMPOSSIBLE to win in the playoffs, i think that is over the top hyperbole.

He can be a decent third liner, just overpaid.

As for doing nothing in the playoffs... he's been heavily checked in a first line role. A role he's never been suited for. Throughout his career he's better at ES than PP. Playing third line minutes, against weaker defensive pairs, I do believe he would be able to supply offense in that spot. Things get a lot easier when you aren't the focus of the number 1 defensive pair of the other team.

Yeah Commy I think you are right. Basically he is an overpaid (not his fault) 3rd line center.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Y'know, contemplating DD's inadequacies in this thread really brings home how unfortunate it is that Lars Eller never was able to become a legitimate second-line C. That is, I believe, what Gauthier acquired him to be. And if he had been able to become a 20-goal, 50+-point C, we'd be much better placed, organizationally: able to either demote or trade Plekanec for help on the wings, for instance.

This isn't to rag on Eller. Just to observe that he had a function in our team-building plan similar to that occupied by Beaulieu: a player who we really needed to evolve into a particular role. And because he never did, we're stuck with holes up front that we're hard-pressed to fix, and still looking to DD to somehow contribute something.

I'm not sure we can even blame Gauthier, really. All of us have been seduced at one time or another by Eller's potential as a rangy second-line C. Wasn't meant to be.

(The Goat's real crime was in dumping Cammallerri - who is EXACTLY what this team has needed up front - for a turd in Bourque; and then we shipped Bourque for more turds; effectively turning a first-line sniper into exactly nothing. Talk about pathetic asset management).

[Machine of Loving Grace]

It certainly looked after the lockout that Eller would one day replace Plekanec and Galchenyuk would one day replace Desharnais. Like that was how the setup would be. Galchenyuk replaced Desharnais but it took forever to happen. Eller has never shown to have top six skill. The moment he has to deal with top defensive units he folds.

[JoeLassister]

Galchenyuk replaced Desharnais but it took forever to happen.

Yeah. Just around turning 22 years old. Forever.

[Guest Stogey24]

Yeah. Just around turning 22 years old. Forever.

I was going to say the same thing.

[DON]

Hope he has same 22 and 23yr old seasons that Tarsenko did with 37 and 40g. Am really looking forward to seeing the 16-17 version of Galcheynuk

[hab29RETIRED]

Here's the problem. DD is useless on the PP. If he sticks around, if history is any indicator and Le genius holds true to form, DD will continue to get PP time. Sometime you need to dump a player that a coach treats like his adopted son.

I said he was overpaid and should be one of the pieces we try to move.

If we can't move him, then I don't think him playing on the third line is something that makes it... IMPOSSIBLE to win in the playoffs, i think that is over the top hyperbole.

He can be a decent third liner, just overpaid.

As for doing nothing in the playoffs... he's been heavily checked in a first line role. A role he's never been suited for. Throughout his career he's better at ES than PP. Playing third line minutes, against weaker defensive pairs, I do believe he would be able to supply offense in that spot. Things get a lot easier when you aren't the focus of the number 1 defensive pair of the other team.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I was going to say the same thing.

Took forever = Was ready 14-15 season, got pulled off and not put back except I think one game in the playoffs, got put back at centre and guaranteed by Bergevin, got pulled when he was playing fine with bad wingers, didn't get put back on until Desharnais got hurt. It was so bad people just gave up and were thinking he'd never get the spot with Therrien coaching.

I was vocal in being fine with him starting at wing but after two seasons it was clear he needed to move to the middle. It took forever for Therrien to realize he had a fix to his centre problem right in front of him.

It's so bad some people still would rather move him to the wing and get another centre.

[DON]

Took forever = Was ready 14-15 season, got pulled off and not put back except I think one game in the playoffs, got put back at centre and guaranteed by Bergevin, got pulled when he was playing fine with bad wingers, didn't get put back on until Desharnais got hurt. It was so bad people just gave up and were thinking he'd never get the spot with Therrien coaching.

I was vocal in being fine with him starting at wing but after two seasons it was clear he needed to move to the middle. It took forever for Therrien to realize he had a fix to his centre problem right in front of him.

It's so bad some people still would rather move him to the wing and get another centre.

Don't care which position he plays, he would do fine at C or W. But seems majority of good UFAs this year are wingers like Okposo, Eriksson, Ladd, Vrbata, Hudler, Perron, Lucic. So not having to look for a centre this off-season, wont hear "cant win with 14-51 as our top two centres" all summer long, will be nice for a change.

[Commandant]

Here's the problem. DD is useless on the PP. If he sticks around, if history is any indicator and Le genius holds true to form, DD will continue to get PP time. Sometime you need to dump a player that a coach treats like his adopted son.

I have a hard time blaming the coach for using DD as a top 6 forward, when his GM has never provided him the adequate number of top 6 forwards.

Yeah its all therrien's fault he used DD on the powerplay instead of Brian Flynn and Paul Byron and the rest of the guys who MB supplied him with last year.

[hab29RETIRED]

how about not using Galchenyuk, or using him less than DD?

I have a hard time blaming the coach for using DD as a top 6 forward, when his GM has never provided him the adequate number of top 6 forwards.

Yeah its all therrien's fault he used DD on the powerplay instead of Brian Flynn and Paul Byron and the rest of the guys who MB supplied him with last year.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I have a hard time blaming the coach for using DD as a top 6 forward, when his GM has never provided him the adequate number of top 6 forwards.

Yeah its all therrien's fault he used DD on the powerplay instead of Brian Flynn and Paul Byron and the rest of the guys who MB supplied him with last year.

For the most part I agree, but...

At the start of the season the pairings were Pacioretty - Plekanec - Gallagher and Galchenyuk - Desharnais - Semin. Even then Therrien wouldn't play Galchenyuk at centre.

Then Weise replaced Semin. Fleischmann, Andrighetto and Smith-Pelly received less than four minutes of PP time prior to the collapse.

Post collapse, DD was still Top 6 in PP minutes. Ghetto and McCarron got some minutes. Carr was rarely used on the PP, barely more than Byron. Ghetto was used more than Eller but that's about it.

[Commandant]

how about not using Galchenyuk, or using him less than DD?

Alex Galchenyuk 209 minutes of PP time this year.... 3rd on the time.... 59 minutes more than DD.... on a per game basis (DD was injured and missed some time) Galchenyuk was still used 30 seconds more per game on PP.

DD was 5th on the team in PP time per game. All four of Gallagher, Plek, GAlchenyuk, Pacioretty go more PP Time.

So yes... on a team with 4 legit top 6 forwards.... DD was the 5th most used forward on the PP.

Again, i blame MB for DD's PP time.

[Commandant]

For the most part I agree, but...

At the start of the season the pairings were Pacioretty - Plekanec - Gallagher and Galchenyuk - Desharnais - Semin. Even then Therrien wouldn't play Galchenyuk at centre.

Then Weise replaced Semin. Fleischmann, Andrighetto and Smith-Pelly received less than four minutes of PP time prior to the collapse.

Post collapse, DD was still Top 6 in PP minutes. Ghetto and McCarron got some minutes. Carr was rarely used on the PP, barely more than Byron. Ghetto was used more than Eller but that's about it.

Maybe its cause its 2:30 am and I'm about to go to bed here... What is the complaint, that DD got more PP time than Ghetto, McCarron, Carr? That DD was top 6 in PP minutes?

Yeah thats grasping at straws.

Get me LEGIT NHL TOP 6 FORWARDS, and we don't have the issue. I'm not gonna complain about a guy who once got 60 points in a season, and has another season over 50 points getting the 5th most PP time on the team amongst forwards... not when the team only has 4 good forwards.

Being 5th on a team with 4 good forwards tells me DD is getting PP time by default; not because he's some golden boy of the coach.

But i forgot every thread here has to be about the horrible coaching of MT.

Sorry if I'm not seeing the distribution of PP ice time as an issue when he's the 5th most used guy in minutes per game.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Maybe its cause its 2:30 am and I'm about to go to bed here... What is the complaint, that DD got more PP time than Ghetto, McCarron, Carr? That DD was top 6 in PP minutes?

Yeah thats grasping at straws.

Get me LEGIT NHL TOP 6 FORWARDS, and we don't have the issue. I'm not gonna complain about a guy who once got 60 points in a season, and has another season over 50 points getting the 5th most PP time on the team amongst forwards... not when the team only has 4 good forwards.

Being 5th on a team with 4 good forwards tells me DD is getting PP time by default; not because he's some golden boy of the coach.

But i forgot every thread here has to be about the horrible coaching of MT.

Sorry if I'm not seeing the distribution of PP ice time as an issue when he's the 5th most used guy in minutes per game.

I'm in agreement that the problem is Bergevin trying to collect quick fixes to the top six instead of finding a legitimate winger. At least Gainey signed Sergei Samsonov. Bergevin didn't even do that. He got Alex Semin and Tomas Fleischmann.

But the problem is that DD wasn't getting the minutes by default. He started the year as the PP2 centreman over Alex Galchenyuk, who was pushed to the wing despite it being made a big deal out of him being a centre last summer.

When it came to ES ice time, the people who argued that DD was still being treated like a second line centre had a good argument. After the first 12 games, Desharnais had 145:59 of ice time even strength while Galchenyuk had 146:20. Therrien was playing the lines equally. Fleischmann and Weise both played more ES minutes than Galchenyuk. Galchenyuk did command the 4th most PP minutes but as a winger.

In the month of November, Desharnais had the third most ES minutes of among all forwards with Galchenyuk seventh. That's right, in the month of November, not only was Desharnais in the top three of forwards for even strength minutes, but with a "dearth of top fix forwards", Therrien played Desharnais, Fleischmann, Weise and Eller more than Chuck. DD had 45 more shifts total.

Same in the month of December. DD 3rd in ES, Galchenyuk 7th. Chuck finally got boosted on the PP because with Gallagher out, Therrien decided to play him as a right wing for some crazy reason which people thought was genius.

It wasn't until January that Galchenyuk was playing more ES minutes than Desharnais by almost two minutes. Not per game, total. It isn't until February that Galchenyuk becomes our ES leader, which coincided with Desharnais getting injured.

There's an argument to be made that maybe Desharnais was useful on the PP2 due to the injuries and lack of experience to put on the PP. But there's no excuse in 2015 for Alex Galchenyuk to spent two straight months as our seventh most used forward, especially at a time when Brendan Gallagher was hurt. In November and December, David Desharnais was getting ES minutes like a first line forward, not a third line forward or a second line forward out of necessity. There's no acceptable excuse for that. None.

[DON]

Samsanov...well seems many were pleased with Semin signing and already had Semin getting 15-20 g and were screaming mad when he was sent packing.

A big deal about Galchenyuk at centre was made by fan not the Habs and people are still whining endlessly about it. He was told to prepare to play centre early in the summer and fans were let know this in late summer/fall. Bergevin never made any big proclamation about it.

And as Therrien said, Galchenyuk was not the same player in the 2nd half of season as he was in the fall.

Too bad Habs Mgmt simply are just not as smart as fans are I suppose.

(I forgot, when and where is our MENSA convention this year?)

[habs rule]

(I forgot, when and where is our MENSA convention this year?)

I think it is at my house this year. You had it last year so by default......

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Bergevin never made any big proclamation about it.

And as Therrien said, Galchenyuk was not the same player in the 2nd half of season as he was in the fall.

Too bad Habs Mgmt simply are just not as smart as fans are I suppose.

(I forgot, when and where is our MENSA convention this year?)

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/montreal/galchenyuk-ready-to-move-from-wing-to-centre-bergevin-says-1.3223637

It was a pretty big announcement.

Therrien was wrong by every possible metric that Galchenyuk wasn't ready. There were countless articles by many writers pointing it out. When you dismiss basic information to make a silly point it leads me to believe you're just trolling for discussion instead of actually trying to discuss the Habs. Let me know which it is.

[DON]

Bergevin's comment blown up by Montreal media, that unusual.

Basic information?..are you a TMZ follower and believe everything the media pumps out as the gospel?

Talk about naïve!

[habs rule]

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/montreal/galchenyuk-ready-to-move-from-wing-to-centre-bergevin-says-1.3223637

It was a pretty big announcement.

Therrien was wrong by every possible metric that Galchenyuk wasn't ready. There were countless articles by many writers pointing it out. When you dismiss basic information to make a silly point it leads me to believe you're just trolling for discussion instead of actually trying to discuss the Habs. Let me know which it is.

Therrien was wrong? Say it ain't so. This can't be. Mark Down Mark wants to go in a fox hole with him. Ok that part I don't know about, I think I will send my crazy Jack Russell in there with them. May the best man or dog come out. Don't like their chances.

[dlbalr]

According to a Finnish site, Lehkonen is in agreement with the Habs on an entry-level deal with the possibility that he is loaned back to Frolunda if he doesn't make the Canadiens out of camp. Obviously the Habs haven't announced it yet or I'd be starting a new thread.

http://yle.fi/urheilu/3-8865246

Edit: Here's a Swedish report as well: http://www.aftonbladet.se/sportbladet/hockey/sverige/shl/frolunda/article22772354.ab