Training camp thread

[dlbalr]

18 players cut, including Palushaj, Avtsin, Tinordi, Leblanc, and Nash. http://www.habsworld.net/article.php?id=2207

[JGC21]

Glad to see White and Pacioretty still with the team. I think Martin may have to make a tough choice here. If it were up to me, I'd keep White up with the team as the 14th forward and platoon him in/out of the lineup and send Pacioretty to Hamilton for a few months. Then, depending on what's going on with Pouliot/Kostitsyn - call Pacioretty up for December and deal one of the former's.

Top 2 lines:

Eller / Gomez / Gionta

Cammalleri / Plekanec / Kostitsyn

Bottom 6:

Pouliot / Boyd / Lapierre

Pyatt / Halpern / Moen

Darche, White

I hope Martin only carries 7 d-man this year, there's no need to keep 8. Therefore, you can have a 14th forward (White).

[JoeLassister]

I now want Moen to be traded.

I want White in the lineup somehow. Time for him to get Moen's responsabilities, IMO.

[lazy26]

I now want Moen to be traded.

I want White in the lineup somehow. Time for him to get Moen's responsabilities, IMO.

I like Moen, but I feel like he's regressed a bit since joining the Habs.

[CoRvInA]

Glad to see White and Pacioretty still with the team. I think Martin may have to make a tough choice here. If it were up to me, I'd keep White up with the team as the 14th forward and platoon him in/out of the lineup and send Pacioretty to Hamilton for a few months. Then, depending on what's going on with Pouliot/Kostitsyn - call Pacioretty up for December and deal one of the former's.

Top 2 lines:

Eller / Gomez / Gionta

Cammalleri / Plekanec / Kostitsyn

Bottom 6:

Pouliot / Boyd / Lapierre

Pyatt / Halpern / Moen

Darche, White

I hope Martin only carries 7 d-man this year, there's no need to keep 8. Therefore, you can have a 14th forward (White).

dont worry about Pacioretty looks like he's injured again! among a whole bunch of other players

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/306974.html

[dlbalr]

I hope Martin only carries 7 d-man this year, there's no need to keep 8. Therefore, you can have a 14th forward (White).

I hope they only carry 7 D...and only 13 F. The last thing I want to see is 3 players per night sitting in the press box eating away at the team's already limited cap space. This is what happened last year...and the Habs wound up spending over the cap. No need to carry more than 22 players, especially if White's going to be someone who spends as much time in the press box than on the ice (as numbers dictate).

dont worry about Pacioretty looks like he's injured again! among a whole bunch of other players

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/306974.html

Also reported in the link on HW cited earlier.

[hab29RETIRED]

I now want Moen to be traded.

I want White in the lineup somehow. Time for him to get Moen's responsabilities, IMO.

+1

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I now want Moen to be traded.

I want White in the lineup somehow. Time for him to get Moen's responsabilities, IMO.

This makes sense in the immediate term. The problem is that, come the stretch, Moen is precisely the sort of player that the Habs will be shopping around for, should they unload him. And don't forget, as a rookie White is guaranteed to hit a wall somewhere. May as well skip a step and keep Moen around.

[BlueKross]

I hope they only carry 7 D...and only 13 F. The last thing I want to see is 3 players per night sitting in the press box eating away at the team's already limited cap space.

You may no like it, but rosters are 23 man limit. I think GM's in general have struggled in using the 23 man roster effectively. Typically the later lines are of the low rent nature. Personnally, I would be

rotating players in and out of the later lines specific to what they bring and who they are playing. I don't see any big advantage by scimping on your roster size to save a few bucks.

[dlbalr]

You may no like it, but rosters are 23 man limit. I think GM's in general have struggled in using the 23 man roster effectively. Typically the later lines are of the low rent nature. Personnally, I would be

rotating players in and out of the later lines specific to what they bring and who they are playing. I don't see any big advantage by scimping on your roster size to save a few bucks.

I know you can have up to 23 players - why would you want 23 though? 3 guys in the press box every night? I'm sorry, I'd rather have the youngsters playing in Hamilton than eating popcorn in the press box (even if it really is good popcorn...). You can mix and match with 1 extra forward and 1 extra d-man which is what most teams carried last season. And if you really need to bring a certain player in for a specific game? Do what every other team does - call him up, then send him down after the game. (Not the Habs method of call him up a week in advance and sit him, play him once, sit him for another 3 days, then send him down - 11 days of pay for 1 game = cap mismanagement.) As for not scrimping on the roster to save a few bucks? If the Habs would have scrimped last year, even for a month, they wouldn't have a cap below the max this year.

There's ways to give the youngsters playing time without having them sit 3 of 5 games in the NHL. Shuffle them back and forth giving them some experience without killing the cap situation - it's the best of both worlds...every other team caught on last year, hopefully the new capologist is aware of this as well. And the Habs have the players to do that, guys like White, Maxwell, and Pacioretty are all waiver exempt so they can be shuffled. If you do that enough at the beginning of the year, there's some extra cap space at the deadline (or if they don't make a trade, then you can carry a larger roster without repercussions).

[saskhab]

Unless you employ a goon or some kind of specialist, I don't see much use for the 23rd roster spot as well. I was thinking, though, that Picard would make the team just out of fear of losing him via waivers if he starts the season with the team. He hasn't played an AHL game in the past 2 seasons and makes $600k... some team will have an injury on the blueline and Picard would be a good temporary fill. Considering the strong camp he's had, I think they're going to keep him around. I guess it might depend on Carle and Weber's readiness to step into the lineup at some point. Also, O'Byrne has to prove he's better than Picard.

I agree that I don't see White or Maxwell making the team despite their strong camps. It's very encouraging what stage they're at, but the current roster implications and cap situation doesn't allow that kind of flexibility. They're all playing for a spot in the callup pecking order. They're clearly the top 3 options at forward.

Moen is too valuable for the PK. People forget how awful Moen looked last preseason. You have to look at long term projections and not short samples like a training camp. Short preseason samples have caused us to rush prospects while easily dismissing veterans in the past. It's about time to acknowledge just what preseason is for: getting the cobwebs out. The end of season evaluations and pre-season fitness levels are the truly important elements in determining who makes the team.

And even though White, Maxwell, and Pacioretty may have had strong camps, their performance in camp probably only gets them a bump for 3 weeks or so. After that, it's based on how they're doing in the AHL.

[JoeLassister]

This makes sense in the immediate term. The problem is that, come the stretch, Moen is precisely the sort of player that the Habs will be shopping around for, should they unload him. And don't forget, as a rookie White is guaranteed to hit a wall somewhere. May as well skip a step and keep Moen around.

I've not been impressed at all by Moen last year and especially during the offseason. Dissapointing cuz I thought we were bringing him here for playoffs purpose...

Not saying that we will not shop around for a "Moen", but I'd prefer the Habs to develop White the most they can before trading for a "Moen" other than Travis himself...

[JoeLassister]

Moen is too valuable for the PK. People forget how awful Moen looked last preseason. You have to look at long term projections and not short samples like a training camp. Short preseason samples have caused us to rush prospects while easily dismissing veterans in the past. It's about time to acknowledge just what preseason is for: getting the cobwebs out. The end of season evaluations and pre-season fitness levels are the truly important elements in determining who makes the team.

Moen is too valuable for the PK ???? Gomez-Gionta Pyatt-Lapierre Halpern-White, maybe some other can chip in as well. Maybe valuable, but "too" valuable is pushing it, IMHO.

[BCHabnut]

Ya, I really don't get why we pay Moen so much. Doesn't he make over 2 mill?

[Wamsley01]

Ya, I really don't get why we pay Moen so much. Doesn't he make over 2 mill?

Nobody was talking like this when he buried the Pens with his 4 nothing goal in Game 7.

White is great, but White is also eligible to be sent to Hamilton no strings attached. These same discussions follow EVERY training camp and guess what discussion happens in December when the fanbase complains that

A. Management rushed him and ruined him or

B. He just isn't good enough, get rid of him

Latendresse, Paccioretty, Ribeiro, Carey Price etc etc. Over and over and over again.

Keep Moen, send White down if he can't claim one of the other spots. Moen is a proven NHL player and has Stanley Cup experience to boot. White will have his time.

[BTH]

Ya, I really don't get why we pay Moen so much. Doesn't he make over 2 mill?

1.5M. What would you expect to get him for? I think he's worth all of his salary.

@saskhab: isn't Carle already cut/on waivers?

[dlbalr]

1.5M. What would you expect to get him for? I think he's worth all of his salary.

@saskhab: isn't Carle already cut/on waivers?

I know you're not asking me, but yes, yes he is on waivers.

[BTH]

I know you're not asking me, but yes, yes he is on waivers.

It's too bad. I could definitely see him being claimed.

[dlbalr]

It's too bad. I could definitely see him being claimed.

He's had 4 training camps as a pro now - I think he could be a bottom pairing guy but how long of a leash should he get? Most teams have their own d-men like Carle, I'd put it below a 50/50 chance he gets claimed.

There were a couple of decent young d-men (such as Vladimir Mihalik (a former 1st rounder) and Teemu Laakso - heck, even Jay Leach who's not quite so young) on waivers yesterday that cleared. Perhaps a good sign?

[saskhab]

Moen is too valuable for the PK ???? Gomez-Gionta Pyatt-Lapierre Halpern-White, maybe some other can chip in as well. Maybe valuable, but "too" valuable is pushing it, IMHO.

Plekanec-Moen was our top PK duo last year. I assume it'll be Halpern-Moen if the plan is to rest Plex a bit. Lapierre hasn't established much as a PKer in his career, though Pyatt did well as a 2nd/3rd rotation guy. The idea is to rest our top offensive players a bit this year... taking Moen out isn't a good idea.

White's a rookie, it's way too early to believe he'll be effective in such situations.

[saskhab]

Oh yeah, and Carle won't be claimed. He hasn't played a pro game since last December other than this preseason. No one thinks he's got top 4 potential, like dlbalr says, every team has their own Carle.

Tampa is the only team that might take a shot at him if Boucher lobbies for it. But he has to want to play him in the NHL right from the start.

[BCHabnut]

Moen at 1.5 mill isn't bad. He suits his purpose. I still was hoping for a little more from him. It's funny though. Every year a different player shines and we all flock over to them with the love. As far as Dejarnais goes, he is a little slow I guess, but I have been quite impressed with his camp. A couple years ago I thought Dagostini was a top liner for sure though. Max Pac the year before... A lot of players look good in camp i suppose. I do believe that white is the real deal though. I would love to see him and Boyd on a line together.

[l.moustakas]

I'm not sure why some teams would not claim a player like Carle, or Laasko or Mihalik for that matter. Organizations like the Islanders or Oilers, who have hodge-podge bluelines at best, could certainly afford to a chance on a such prospects. After all, they are available for free, aren't they?

As for Carle being in his fourth pro camp, that is true, but injuries certainly have not been kind to him.

[dlbalr]

I'm not sure why some teams would not claim a player like Carle, or Laasko or Mihalik for that matter. Organizations like the Islanders or Oilers, who have hodge-podge bluelines at best, could certainly afford to a chance on a such prospects. After all, they are available for free, aren't they?

As for Carle being in his fourth pro camp, that is true, but injuries certainly have not been kind to him.

Why claim a player that you already basically have a carbon copy of, in your own system? If you have a spot open, most teams would prefer to dance with the devil they know over the one they don't. If this was midseason, then I'd say the odds are higher as then injuries come into play. Right now, every team is making the same decisions with their own young guys...that's what over 100 players have cleared waivers since they opened Saturday. If you can sign an established NHL vet (such as the Isles did with Mike Mottau today) for $800k, why not go for him over an unproven, sadly injury prone player?

[saskhab]

The biggest thing working against Carle is the fact that he hasn't played a game in 9 months aside from the past couple of preseason games. He probably just needs some seasoning to work his way back up the depth chart. If Carle had finished the year playing well, I'd agree someone might claim him, but he probably lost another 3-6 months to a year with that injury.