saskhab Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Getting Markov back could push us back to the top tier of this conference on its own. It'll allow everyone to play to their strengths... Plex no longer the PP QB, Gill playing 3rd pair at even strength, and Subban is freed up to play a bit more offensively again. Offensively we're really missing Kostitsyn right now. He and Eller on the 3rd line really gave other teams fits. If Gomez is being converted to a LW, will they still try and pair him with Gionta? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Getting Markov back could push us back to the top tier of this conference on its own. It'll allow everyone to play to their strengths... Plex no longer the PP QB, Gill playing 3rd pair at even strength, and Subban is freed up to play a bit more offensively again. Offensively we're really missing Kostitsyn right now. He and Eller on the 3rd line really gave other teams fits. If Gomez is being converted to a LW, will they still try and pair him with Gionta? You'd be talking about Gomez - Plex - Gionta Pax - DD - Cole Cammy - Eller - Kostitsyn Moen - Noke - whoever looks sweet to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 You'd be talking about Gomez - Plex - Gionta Pax - DD - Cole Cammy - Eller - Kostitsyn Moen - Noke - whoever looks sweet to me... That would be some serious lines... wish gomer could make the transition to wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 You'd be talking about Gomez - Plex - Gionta Pax - DD - Cole Cammy - Eller - Kostitsyn Moen - Noke - whoever looks sweet to me... Man those lines do look sweet. Our top 9 when healthy makes for 3 solid, capable scoring lines, with a great 4th line that knows their role. Anything that keeps Darche out of the top 9 or PP makes me happy. And the defense when healthy also looks solid. I really hate to complain about injuries but I can't get over how different this team would look without them. The injury situation on defense could be a blessing in disguise for the future. When Spacek and Gill retire or move on, we have rookies now who will be able to jump right in to make an easy transition to full time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Don't really like the idea of Cammalleri and his $6 million price tag on the 3rd line. I still think something is going to change via trade but until then I would re-unite Cammy with Pleks, re-unite Gio and Gomez. Although I prefer Eller a center I think he has to go to the wing. I would personally go with: Cammalleri-Pleks-Kostitsyn Pacioretty-DD-Cole Eller-Gomez-Gionta Moen-Nokaleinan-Darche Until White returns that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 That would be some serious lines... wish gomer could make the transition to wing. Gomer came into the league as a winger. After his more impressive performance the last two times out, I'm thinking I'd like to see that experiment continue a little longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Gomer came into the league as a winger. After his more impressive performance the last two times out, I'm thinking I'd like to see that experiment continue a little longer. I don't think so. He played center for Tri-City in the WHl and center while playing in the BCHL. He's pretty much been bred as a center his entire career.Maybe played a few games at wing in Jersey though????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 I don't think so. He played center for Tri-City in the WHl and center while playing in the BCHL. He's pretty much been bred as a center his entire career.Maybe played a few games at wing in Jersey though????? I believe so, but my (alright old) memory says that he played more than just a few games on the wing. He was moved to centre because of his playmaking skills, an obvious choice, but I think it's like we've been doing in Montreal in the last pile of years, taking a centre then moving him to the wing because we don't think he can cut it down the middle. *coughEllercough*...many others, of course. I'm not saying it's bad practice, just saying it's happened a few times which led to eyebrow-raising. Bottom line, he didn't look out of place on the wing at all. The only drawback, of course, is that he's going to have to dig on the boards, and Gomez isn't much of a digger, so while in the short-term it's not such a bad idea, I'm not sure how the idea would pan out down the road. When, oh when, will our Habbies finally get strong down the middle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 I believe so, but my (alright old) memory says that he played more than just a few games on the wing. He was moved to centre because of his playmaking skills, an obvious choice, but I think it's like we've been doing in Montreal in the last pile of years, taking a centre then moving him to the wing because we don't think he can cut it down the middle. *coughEllercough*...many others, of course. I'm not saying it's bad practice, just saying it's happened a few times which led to eyebrow-raising. Bottom line, he didn't look out of place on the wing at all. The only drawback, of course, is that he's going to have to dig on the boards, and Gomez isn't much of a digger, so while in the short-term it's not such a bad idea, I'm not sure how the idea would pan out down the road. When, oh when, will our Habbies finally get strong down the middle? http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20012NJDSASALL&sort=totalFaceOffs&viewName=faceOffPercentageAll Looks like he was pretty much a centre. Playoff stats show he took 3rd most draws on that team. But they had a lot of options, so maybe it was just Gomez taking draws before moving to wing. Arnott, Holik, Madden, Nemchinov, Corkum all played some C as well. But looks like Madden was more a winger back then and Gomez was the #3 C. That Devils team was incredible. The classic Devils D (Stevens, Niedermeyer, Rafalski, Daneyko), Brodeur in his prime, 3 point per game forwards (Elias, Mogilny, Sykora), 8 players with 50 points or better, Gomez a Calder finalist, Holik a Selke type centre.... EVERY PLAYER was an even or better on that team (Corkum was -12 when traded from LA, was +4 in 12 games with Devils). And then the season ended as a failure because they lost their last two games to the Avalanche. They were one win away from winning the Cup 3 times in 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted November 16, 2011 Author Share Posted November 16, 2011 Gomez himself said he started in the NHL as a winger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Well, if Gomer Pyle does indeed have a history on the wing, then perhaps he *is* the best choice for that role. Maybe it's best to continue to allow DD and Eller to grow to their full potential at C instead of expecting them to defer to a veteran who has been a total debacle for the past year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Gomez unless he can produce more and show more potential than Plekanec or Eller can not be a centre. He does not really have the defensive game right now to be a shut down guy Leave him on the wing and GET HIM OFF THE PP please. Give Eller a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I believe so, but my (alright old) memory says that he played more than just a few games on the wing. He was moved to centre because of his playmaking skills, an obvious choice, but I think it's like we've been doing in Montreal in the last pile of years, taking a centre then moving him to the wing because we don't think he can cut it down the middle. *coughEllercough*...many others, of course. I'm not saying it's bad practice, just saying it's happened a few times which led to eyebrow-raising. Bottom line, he didn't look out of place on the wing at all. The only drawback, of course, is that he's going to have to dig on the boards, and Gomez isn't much of a digger, so while in the short-term it's not such a bad idea, I'm not sure how the idea would pan out down the road. When, oh when, will our Habbies finally get strong down the middle? When was that because it shows him as a center his 1st year in the NHL and a center while he played junior. After last night though I think I would ride him on LW. 2/10 in the faceoff circle. Perhaps it is time to switch things up a little bit and place Cammy with Plekanec and drop Gionta back to Gomez and Eller? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 When was that because it shows him as a center his 1st year in the NHL and a center while he played junior. After last night though I think I would ride him on LW. 2/10 in the faceoff circle. Perhaps it is time to switch things up a little bit and place Cammy with Plekanec and drop Gionta back to Gomez and Eller? He said it himself at some point recently. Aside from that, I do remember him being listed as a C/LW early on, and I also know he took some face-offs then went to the wing on occasion. Good call on the line changes, mind you. The Eller part you missed, but didn't the other two happen last night? ;-) Honestly, I think, looking back on the Habs in the last decade or so, the question of strength down the middle has always been in the centre of any controversy in Montreal, right or wrong. This thread is probably one of the most relevant threads for Habs fans. The debate brought up here is so intrinsic to Hab World (perhaps in parallel to HabsWorld) that I wonder why a thread like this isn't stickied. Here's a question: if Gomez starts producing at the equivalent of a 50 point clip for the balance of the season, is that satisfactory? Another question: with Plex, Gomer, DD, Eller, and Noke down the pipe, are we strong enough to compete *in the playoffs* against the elite teams in the league and therefore legitimately challenge for the Cup? Or do we necessarily have to be considered outsiders because we lack a true #1, or the size required to both neutralize the bigger pivots in the league and win battles down low both in attacking and defending zones? A third: If you were the GM, how far would you go to acquire a bigger centre who would be that "go-to" guy? Or would you instead be more interested in a complimentarily consistent guy to Plex? Finally: Do the Canadiens have it in them to make the big trade to make this kind of thing happen, or is this all irrelevant? These are the questions that go through my head each night when I'm watching. (And many when I'm not watching.) I feel this team is a pretender to the Cup, that Cinderelli's shoe has to be a perfect fit, and that Carey must not wear pink in order for us to snatch a Cup. The team composition is such that, barring catastrophe, we'll be a contender all year, should probably make the playoffs, but then should probably find the going more difficult against the Bruins of the world. And it's not that we can't beat these guys in a 7 game war, but I'm not sure we have the necessary parts to swing the odds in our favour. Moreover, I don't think we'll get there unless we strengthen ourselves down the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Both proposed lineups look good to me. Really, the Canadiens have a lot of options and that's a fantastic thing. If one of the centres is struggling, Martin can move Gomez around to shake things up. Win win situation if you ask me. I really, really like this team and things are starting to make a lot more sense in the standings the further we move along in the season. This team is a +8 at even strength, regularly outshoots teams, and is arguably an elite PK team. It's just the PP production that needs to improve and there are good signs on that front (and obviously Markov's return should help). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 He said it himself at some point recently. Aside from that, I do remember him being listed as a C/LW early on, and I also know he took some face-offs then went to the wing on occasion. Good call on the line changes, mind you. The Eller part you missed, but didn't the other two happen last night? ;-) Honestly, I think, looking back on the Habs in the last decade or so, the question of strength down the middle has always been in the centre of any controversy in Montreal, right or wrong. This thread is probably one of the most relevant threads for Habs fans. The debate brought up here is so intrinsic to Hab World (perhaps in parallel to HabsWorld) that I wonder why a thread like this isn't stickied. Here's a question: if Gomez starts producing at the equivalent of a 50 point clip for the balance of the season, is that satisfactory? Another question: with Plex, Gomer, DD, Eller, and Noke down the pipe, are we strong enough to compete *in the playoffs* against the elite teams in the league and therefore legitimately challenge for the Cup? Or do we necessarily have to be considered outsiders because we lack a true #1, or the size required to both neutralize the bigger pivots in the league and win battles down low both in attacking and defending zones? A third: If you were the GM, how far would you go to acquire a bigger centre who would be that "go-to" guy? Or would you instead be more interested in a complimentarily consistent guy to Plex? Finally: Do the Canadiens have it in them to make the big trade to make this kind of thing happen, or is this all irrelevant? These are the questions that go through my head each night when I'm watching. (And many when I'm not watching.) I feel this team is a pretender to the Cup, that Cinderelli's shoe has to be a perfect fit, and that Carey must not wear pink in order for us to snatch a Cup. The team composition is such that, barring catastrophe, we'll be a contender all year, should probably make the playoffs, but then should probably find the going more difficult against the Bruins of the world. And it's not that we can't beat these guys in a 7 game war, but I'm not sure we have the necessary parts to swing the odds in our favour. Moreover, I don't think we'll get there unless we strengthen ourselves down the middle. Do we have what it takes down the middle.......thats the question. Do I like having Plekanec/DD/Gomez as our top 3 centers.......no way. That's way too small for a playoff run. Even the Wings who are small down he middle have alot more size than that. If it is true that Gomez played LW then I would be working on the defensive side of his responsibilities in practice and will continue to use him on the wing because size is so crucial down the middle. I know I originally said I would prefer Eller on the wing but I've changed my mind. With that said we still need faceoff help. Eller is horrible, Desharnais is so-so, Plekanec is average and Nokaleinan is effective. As a collective however they struggle. Kind of brigs me to the trade option and acquiring that big center. Let's be honest here how good would Eric Staal look on this team. I know to acquire a guy of his ability would require one hell of a trade because he is Carolina hockey but what would it take. Obviously Carolina is not shopping him so we'd have to throw out something too good to resist. I would however make a pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Eller hasn't done anything to get excited about, imo. DD can look brutal, but come out with two points. That has as much to do with DD as it does with the fact that he has Cole and Pacs on the wings, Pacs being hot right now. I would like to see Gomez with Cole and Pacs. Gomez was doing much better last year with Pacs before Chara came to town. With two big wingers willing to go to the dirty areas and with hot sticks, we might get some decent play out of Gomez. I don't see DD being a solution to anything. Eller might make it as a 3rd line center, but ultimately, we need to make a trade to replace Gomez with a bigger, quality center. Someone of at least Plek's level of play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 These are the questions that go through my head each night when I'm watching. (And many when I'm not watching.) I feel this team is a pretender to the Cup, that Cinderelli's shoe has to be a perfect fit, and that Carey must not wear pink in order for us to snatch a Cup. The team composition is such that, barring catastrophe, we'll be a contender all year, should probably make the playoffs, but then should probably find the going more difficult against the Bruins of the world. And it's not that we can't beat these guys in a 7 game war, but I'm not sure we have the necessary parts to swing the odds in our favour. Moreover, I don't think we'll get there unless we strengthen ourselves down the middle. Well, every team had trouble against the Bruins last year. The Bruins had near perfect health for the two month playoff run (Savard's career was over and they had moved on, Horton didn't get hurt until the Final, only Kampfer was hurt for the first three rounds, and no one even had major offseason surgery to suggest they were playing through a severe injury), had elite goaltending, and won despite a complete lack of a PP. They went seven games three times, and the Habs were the closest team to beating them, losing three games in OT (the oddity is by regular season standards, Montreal won that series 9 points to 8). And I think we've improved from then while Boston has pretty much stayed the same (Seguin's improvement offsetting the losses of Recchi and Ryder, Corvo for Kaberle is a wash). The key for me is not so much Boston (who I think if we play the same way as last year, we'll win 6 out of 10 times), but Pittsburgh and Washington, who frankly are better when healthy. Pittsburgh has the potential to be nearly unbeatable this year if Crosby comes back as what he can be. They're tough enough without their two best players. Obviously Price has to be great for us to win the Cup. We don't have players of the Crosby/Ovechkin/Toews/Lidstrom level. Boston needed Thomas to be amazing and they had a top talent in Chara. Unless a top talent becomes available (the Weber suggestions are about the most likely scenario, maybe an Iginla trade), I think we're as good as we can be provided we get healthy. There isn't a lot of room for improvement because frankly there isn't really a hole in the lineup that isn't already adequately or more than adequately filled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Great contributions, Colin and Saskhab. For what it's worth, here are my thoughts on Colin's very pertinent questions: Here's a question: if Gomez starts producing at the equivalent of a 50 point clip for the balance of the season, is that satisfactory? I'd prefer a 60-point clip, but I'd settle for 50. This would mean a Gomez whose rushes are generally effective and who is on pace for, like, 45 assists. That'd be a useful (not fabulous) asset, useful enough to keep him around before trying to dump him in the summer. Do we necessarily have to be considered outsiders because we lack a true #1, or the size required to both neutralize the bigger pivots in the league and win battles down low both in attacking and defending zones I know the Big Centreman is a point of hockey orthodoxy, and yes, I'd love to have a Malkin. But I also think there are multiple paths to team-building and that a team that can roll 3-4 dangerous lines is reliably hard to beat even if it lacks the Stud at C - especially if the team plays with the kind of ferocious will and defensive commitment these guys have demonstrated over two playoffs. A team without superstars will never be widely regarded as a top contender, but think New Jersey Devils. That's been the model for this group all along, to my mind. A third: If you were the GM, how far would you go to acquire a bigger centre who would be that "go-to" guy? Or would you instead be more interested in a complimentarily consistent guy to Plex? Definitely the latter. You will only acquire the all-star Big C by blowing up significant elements within the organization, most likely young talent. We're not flush enough to do that. A Pleks #2 would be just what the doctor ordered. On some nights, when DD or Eller or Gomez are really rolling, we have that, but it can't be counted on night after night, at least not with Eller at his present stage of development and Gomer Pyle still wandering around in a daze. Finally: Do the Canadiens have it in them to make the big trade to make this kind of thing happen, or is this all irrelevant? Contrary to popular belief, the current management does have the cojones to take gigantic risks. The Great Summer Blow-Up of 2009 proves that, as does Bob's rumoured hari-kari deal with Tampa for Lecavalier, not to mention its repeated willingness to bet the farm on Price despite massive fan resistance. But again, I think they are aware that this team has proven it can do playoff damage and that, if it ever manages to stay healthy, its ceiling rises considerably; and they are aware that acquiring that Stud Centreman will cost you very significant assets, such that the deal could hurt you as much as help you, especially in the future. Barring a return to form from Gomez, I would not be shocked to see Gauthier trying to acquire any #1A centreman who becomes available as a rental at the deadline, but I would be shocked to see him try to swing for the fences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 We talk about strength down the middle and while that is true of 90% of cup champs, and I really think we need better in montreal to truly contend, I think Boston can be seen as an exception to the rule. Kreijci, Bergeron, peverly last year was not significantly stronger than what we have now, and none of those guys is elite. In fact Plekanec was the best centre in that series. I think we need an adequate compliment to him. Either the development of Eller has to speed up rapidly (still think hell get to that level just not this year), Gomez has to wake up, or someone needs to be added. Pleks is a 1a type guy, but we need to find the 1b to compliment him. How you do that quicker, I don't know. Its not easy, centre is the toughest position to fill in the nhl now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 The other cup winner who wasn't elite at centre was anaheim. McDonald was merely good, and Getzlaf was a young kid, and while he was good, he was not the player he is today when they won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 What about Jersey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Here's a question: if Gomez starts producing at the equivalent of a 50 point clip for the balance of the season, is that satisfactory? Like CC said, I'd also prefer if he were to produce at a 60 point clip, but I'd also take 50-55 points. It would be an improvement over last year! 50-55 points in 65 games is pretty good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 The other cup winner who wasn't elite at centre was anaheim. McDonald was merely good, and Getzlaf was a young kid, and while he was good, he was not the player he is today when they won. Sami Pahlsson, though, was very good. He was an shutdown force in the tradition of Carbonneau and Gainey at that point in his career. Of course, Anaheim also had both Niedermeyer and Progner to help out in that shutdown capacity. lol To be honest, I think Plekanec is every bit as good, and probably better than Ryan Kesler. Kesler and the Sedin lines do make each other more effective, so I can see how it can be concluded the Habs are missing a centre. I don't know if that kind of player is available, but we'll see come the trade deadline. I do like the team that we have, I don't know if we can go four rounds for the Cup but I think we're closer than the consensus opinion to doing that. I think we're even with the Bostons and Phillys of the conference but a step behind the Pens and Caps, and conversely a step behind the Blackhawks, Sharks, Canucks and Red Wings out west. That puts us at around 7-12 in the entire NHL, a step below the elite. It's easier for us to make the Finals than similar western teams because there are fewer elite teams in the East, so at least we have that going for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 The other cup winner who wasn't elite at centre was anaheim. McDonald was merely good, and Getzlaf was a young kid, and while he was good, he was not the player he is today when they won. What about Jersey? another good example.Common theme. Elite D and goalie for jersey, anaheim, boston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.