Some interesting Patrick Roy info

[Easy Ryder]

Remparts are out . Means Roy is available.

By the way No to Grigorenko ! in MTL, please hell no.

[Commandant]

I still prefer Galchenyuk to Grigorenko.

But in fairness to Grigorenko. RNH was held pointless in his teams 2nd round loss last year.

[hab29RETIRED]

_{Vigneault's job will definitely be in jeopardy. It's a classic case where it'll be easier to fire the coach and hope a new guy can spark the team to glory than to reconstruct what is already a high-quality lineup. Vigneault has also had some conflict with Ryan Kesler. Could be time for a change there.}

_{And yes, Vigneault would ABSOLUTELY be the best candidate to coach the Habs. It's called a no-brainer. He was an excellent coach with us the first time around, and has been an excellent coach with Vancouver. His resumé as a coach makes Patrick Roy's look like a piece of used toilet paper.}

_{That being said, he will not be the best option for those who crave a carnival rather than winning hockey (which seems to represent about 50% of the fan base). Coach V. expects his teams to play a system and has been known to mix and match his lines, as well as favouring veterans in the crunch. He insists that rookies learn the game properly. All of this is to say his approach is fundamentally that of any good coach - and so it won't take long for same people who hated Martin to go absolutely batsh*t on Vigenault.}

I like Vigneult, but i don't like how he has limited the Sedin's role and kept them off the PK, as well as how he does limit the use of young players. We have a pretty young team and may be younger next year and want a coach who is good at developing and handling young players. I really wonder how much faster Subban would have progressed under a guy like Maclean in Ottawa.

Roy has shown he to be pretty effective with young players, the challenge for him, is how he deals with veteran NHL'ers. The more i think about it, the more I want Roy. i think Vigneult is a HUGE upgrade over Martin, but I think Roy has paid his dues. This isn't Mario Trembley with ZERO experience coming in. I'm not overly concerned about his temper. Hell, from the current coaches already having jobs, my favorites are Babcock, Torterrella, Blysma and laviolette. Torts and Laviolette have been pretty successful despite their tempers.

[hab29RETIRED]

I still prefer Galchenyuk to Grigorenko.

But in fairness to Grigorenko. RNH was held pointless in his teams 2nd round loss last year.

Unlike you, I haven't seen either play other then Grigo for a few World junior games and my knowledge of them is limited to what I've read and highlights he seems to have the better upside. It's too bad Galchenyuk was injured for the majority of the year. I'm not concerned about his recovery, but hate not having a long look at him in his draft year. We can't afford another Wickenisier mistake and I'd hate to leave Grigo on the table and have him picked up by the leafs and become the better player. I'd be much more comfortable of the Oilers or Jackets picking one of Grigo or Galchenyuk up and making our choice easier.

I also think its important whoever we pick, we have the right coach to develop our pick. One of the issues with Wickenieser was that he wasn't given the opportunity and first struggled with the habs not showing faith in him and him not having the confidence and then with him getting injured. But whoever we pick, we need a coach who is going to be able to help develop they guy.

[sakiqc]

Remparts are out . Means Roy is available.

By the way No to Grigorenko ! in MTL, please hell no.

With Remparts eliminated, I assume we'll know within 1 week who's the next Habs GM.

[Commandant]

With Remparts eliminated, I assume we'll know within 1 week who's the next Habs GM.

We still are gonna have to wait for the Hawks elimination to get a shot at Bergevin. I also still think they'd like to ask permission to speak to Dale Tallon, and that Doug Wilson might be fired too.

[illWill]

With Yakupov presumably going #1, I wonder what the chances are of Columbus selecting Galchenyuk at #2? They will be moving Rick Nash more than likely in the off season so they will like to get a high impact forward prospect to replace him. They are probably a bit weary of selecting Russians from past failures so that would mean Grigorenko may not be their first choice. I really hope that they pick Murray and leave us with Galchenyuk.

Edit: Ooops, wrong thread

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

With Remparts eliminated, I assume we'll know within 1 week who's the next Habs GM.

Wow, you have very little faith in the competence and professionalism of the Habs's ownership. That we would hire an under-qualified rookie without even conducting a proper search is a disconcerting idea.

[sakiqc]

Wow, you have very little faith in the competence and professionalism of the Habs's ownership. That we would hire an under-qualified rookie without even conducting a proper search is a disconcerting idea.

If they interview other candidates, it's only to boost Roy's profile and ego. Roy is already overqualified for the job. It's with your attitude that we overlook talents in our own backyard. In Roy's case, he's not hidden here. If we don't hire him now, someone else will and you and all other Habs fans will complain why Habs didn't hire him first. He has all the credentials we can dream for. It's a foregone conclusion he'll be hired. It's only a matter of making it official. Habs have respected Roy and waited for his series to be over. They have let him enjoy his last series with his sons. Now Habs will bring back their "son" in the fold. YOU are the one lacking faith my friend

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

If they interview other candidates, it's only to boost Roy's profile and ego. Roy is already overqualified for the job. It's with your attitude that we overlook talents in our own backyard. In Roy's case, he's not hidden here. If we don't hire him now, someone else will and you and all other Habs fans will complain why Habs didn't hire him first. He has all the credentials we can dream for. It's a foregone conclusion he'll be hired. It's only a matter of making it official. Habs have respected Roy and waited for his series to be over. They have let him enjoy his last series with his sons. Now Habs will bring back their "son" in the fold. YOU are the one lacking faith my friend

Actually, I've said before that I'd be OK with Roy as GM, regarding that as a high-risk, high-reward option. I'm considerably less sanguine about him as a coach; and either case remains just that: high-reward and high-risk.

Let's not kid ourselves. He is, in fact, qualified for neither job, at least not in conventional terms. Yes, he has a strong minor-league background, and yes, he is Patrick Roy. These are not negligible facts by any means. I respect them. But at least I'm not deluding myself that he is 'overqualified' for either job based on those facts. He has never coached or managed professionals, let alone NHLers. I remain skeptical about throwing raw rookies into the most demanding job(s) in all of hockey. Less skeptical about Roy than I might be of some. But still skeptical.

Look. Bob Gainey was as great a champion as Roy and an even better leader of men. And he was massively more qualified for either job than Roy is right now. Most of us regard his tenure as having been either only a qualified success, or a flop. This lesson cuts two ways: first, it means formal qualifications and great past success are no guarantee of future success, a point that works in Roy's favour. But second, it shows that being a past great player is no guarantee of success, a point that works against Roy.

Now: if, after intensive interviews and an exhaustive search, Savard and Molson come to the honest conclusion that Roy is indeed the best man available, I'll accept that. If the whole process is a sham before they can anoint Saint Patrick, because, ya know, he was this real awesome goalie for us 20 years ago and plus, like, he's French!!!, then I'll be pretty disappointed that we're STILL being run like Ronald Corey's Clown College instead of a serious, professional organization.

You've drunk the Patrick Roy kool-aid. Fair enough, but don't try to tell me it's premium scotch.

[dlbalr]

If they interview other candidates, it's only to boost Roy's profile and ego. Roy is already overqualified for the job. It's with your attitude that we overlook talents in our own backyard. In Roy's case, he's not hidden here. If we don't hire him now, someone else will and you and all other Habs fans will complain why Habs didn't hire him first. He has all the credentials we can dream for. It's a foregone conclusion he'll be hired. It's only a matter of making it official. Habs have respected Roy and waited for his series to be over. They have let him enjoy his last series with his sons. Now Habs will bring back their "son" in the fold. YOU are the one lacking faith my friend

Are you predicting that Roy will be named coach, GM, or both?

[sakiqc]

Are you predicting that Roy will be named coach, GM, or both?

I'm predicting he'll be named both.

Habs can't hire a no name to be the face of the franchise. He'll have strong asst gms (named by upper management) working behind the curtain, but he'll be the new frontman of the franchise.

[Commandant]

I don't believe that any one person is capable of doing both jobs at the NHL level in the post cap era. Not on a full time basis (it was fine when Gainey took over and only had a couple weeks til the Trade Deadline to do both jobs, after the deadline he could focus on coaching and have his underlings push the paper).

Both jobs are 24/7 in the NHL, even more so than junior hockey.... its too much.

[sakiqc]

thats why they will surround him with the best assts possible. Roy will bring something that his predecessors hadnt, passion and fire. If we want a new direction and renewed passion. We want Roy to have full ability to realize the change. This cant be accomplished by having Roy as assistant GM. this cant be accomplished by naming Roy the coach before naming the GM. You want the GM to have full authority. Thats why i believe the Habs have basically been vetting assts GMs, and thats why we hear so many people withdrawing their interest.

[Trizzak]

If they interview other candidates, it's only to boost Roy's profile and ego. Roy is already overqualified for the job. It's with your attitude that we overlook talents in our own backyard. In Roy's case, he's not hidden here. If we don't hire him now, someone else will and you and all other Habs fans will complain why Habs didn't hire him first. He has all the credentials we can dream for. It's a foregone conclusion he'll be hired. It's only a matter of making it official. Habs have respected Roy and waited for his series to be over. They have let him enjoy his last series with his sons. Now Habs will bring back their "son" in the fold. YOU are the one lacking faith my friend

You say that phrase often enough that it makes me uncomfortable...

Anyways, we've been pulling GMs from our own backyard for over 30 years. I am glad that they're expanding their search to look at all applicants, and hopefully the best person (from any yard) is picked.

[BlueKross]

You say that phrase often enough that it makes me uncomfortable...

Anyways, we've been pulling GMs from our own backyard for over 30 years. I am glad that they're expanding their search to look at all applicants, and hopefully the best person (from any yard) is picked.

I am not advocating it, I am just putting it out there. Maybe the Nhl should put somethng in effect along the lines of the Rooney Rule which requires a smidgeon of Black Coaches to be processed in the NFL when top vacancies are declared open.

[dlbalr]

thats why they will surround him with the best assts possible. Roy will bring something that his predecessors hadnt, passion and fire. If we want a new direction and renewed passion. We want Roy to have full ability to realize the change. This cant be accomplished by having Roy as assistant GM. this cant be accomplished by naming Roy the coach before naming the GM. You want the GM to have full authority. Thats why i believe the Habs have basically been vetting assts GMs, and thats why we hear so many people withdrawing their interest.

Will the best assets possible want to work in what you're calling more or less a figurehead role? They do the work behind the scenes while Roy is publicly recognized as GM (not unlike his current setup in Quebec), not exactly an enticing invitation for some.

[BlueKross]

Will the best assets possible want to work in what you're calling more or less a figurehead role? They do the work behind the scenes while Roy is publicly recognized as GM (not unlike his current setup in Quebec), not exactly an enticing invitation for some.

I am thinking that GM role in Montreal has not been a traditional set-up, and the GM and Asst GM's are just foot soldiers for the next level , which would help mitigate any perceived perception that the asst has more hockey acumen than the GM.

[sakiqc]

Will the best assets possible want to work in what you're calling more or less a figurehead role? They do the work behind the scenes while Roy is publicly recognized as GM (not unlike his current setup in Quebec), not exactly an enticing invitation for some.

It may not for some, but it's impossible they can't find quality people who want to work for the Montréal Canadiens. If it's not for personal reason (like coming back to Québec/closer to hometown), it will be for more money (like Timmins or the scouts the Habs stole from other organizations).

To the people who don'T want Roy because he has "no experience":

It's funny that people complain that we've let go of Boucher. Now they don't want Roy? Unless I'm mistaken, Boucher only had 1 year of professional experience, that is, his year in Hamilton. A professional with Roy's pedigree can easilly bypass that requirement. He's been a leader at the NHL level for 20 years. It's absurd to say he has no (management) experience at the professional level. When he'll be GM and/or coach of the Habs, yes it will be his 1st year. Everyone has to start somewhere! To the people who don't want Roy now, would you rather have him after Roy spend 4-5 seasons with another team? Like Vigneault? He was an unnexperienced coach from Québec. He had the coaching job only because he was speaking French and coached in our backyard. He didn't deserve it. Now suddenly because he had success with another team he is good now.

a prophet has no honor in his own country

Edited April 19, 2012 by sakiqc
clarification

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

It may not for some, but it's impossible they can't find quality people who want to work for the Montréal Canadiens. If it's not for personal reason (like coming back to Québec/closer to hometown), it will be for more money (like Timmins or the scouts the Habs stole from other organizations).

It's funny that people complain that we've let go of Boucher. Now they don't want Roy? Unless I'm mistaken, Boucher only had 1 year of professional experience, that is, his year in Hamilton. A professional with Roy's pedigree can easilly bypass that requirement. He's been a leader at the NHL level for 20 years. It's absurd to say he has no (management) experience at the professional level. When he'll be GM and/or coach of the Habs, yes it will be his 1st year. Everyone has to start somewhere! To the people who don't want Roy now, would you rather have him after Roy spend 4-5 seasons with another team? Like Vigneault? He was an unnexperienced coach from Québec. He had the coaching job only because he was speaking French and coached in our backyard. He didn't deserve it. Now suddenly because he had success with another team he is good now. Shame to those who think like that!

a prophet has no honor in his own country

I was sorry to see Boucher go, but I never swallowed the kool-aid about him either. This season's debacle in Tampa Bay proves that he is a coach like any other. (This is not to say he's a bad coach, just that he's no superman).

Vigneault actually had qualifications, having spent three years as an assistant at the NHL level before he was hired here.

That you want Roy to become both GM and coach just goes to show that you're too bedazzled by the Roy mystique to think clearly. Roy isn't Jesus Christ, he's a guy like everybody else, and putting a guy with no NHL credentials in BOTH of those jobs is a recipe for the worst debacle since Houle-Tremblay.

[sakiqc]

I was sorry to see Boucher go, but I never swallowed the kool-aid about him either. This season's debacle in Tampa Bay proves that he is a coach like any other. (This is not to say he's a bad coach, just that he's no superman).

Vigneault actually had qualifications, having spent three years as an assistant at the NHL level before he was hired here.

That you want Roy to become both GM and coach just goes to show that you're too bedazzled by the Roy mystique to think clearly. Roy isn't Jesus Christ, he's a guy like everybody else, and putting a guy with no NHL credentials in BOTH of those jobs is a recipe for the worst debacle since Houle-Tremblay.

he's got 20 years experience at the NHL level, was a leader and one of the greatest player ever

he's got nearly 10 years of coach+GM experience at the junior level

what do you want more? do you think Roy will ever be an asst coach/GM? That would be to deny who he is and what his qualities are. That guy is no 2nd fiddle. He's either the captain of the ship or he's captain of another ship. The question is, do Molson/Savard wants him to captain their ship?

[dlbalr]

I'm going to jump in with something quick here since it appears we're headed down a slippery slope here with the language/location requirements. Do not, under any circumstance, try and judge another poster for having or not having a certain belief. It's okay to debate it, but don't let it get personal.

[sakiqc]

I'm going to jump in with something quick here since it appears we're headed down a slippery slope here with the language/location requirements. Do not, under any circumstance, try and judge another poster for having or not having a certain belief. It's okay to debate it, but don't let it get personal.

sorry, my whole post wasn't targeting you. The 2nd paragraph wasn't in direct response to your comment but I was continuing previous thoughts of the thread .. I apologize

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

he's got 20 years experience at the NHL level, was a leader and one of the greatest player ever

he's got nearly 10 years of coach+GM experience at the junior level

what do you want more? do you think Roy will ever be an asst coach/GM? That would be to deny who he is and what his qualities are. That guy is no 2nd fiddle. He's either the captain of the ship or he's captain of another ship. The question is, do Molson/Savard wants him to captain their ship?

Well, Wayne Gretzky was THE greatest player ever and he stunk out the joint as a coach. Now Roy is more qualified than Gretzky was; what I'm saying is that his 20 years of playing are completely irrelevant to the question of whether he'll make a good coach or GM. His only valid qualifications are his junior credentials. These are good, but it's quite a leap to infer that he must therefore make an awesome coach in the NHL, let alone coach + GM, a position that is widely agreed to be unsustainable in today's NHL even for experienced professionals.

Much of your argument seems to be that we will lose Roy if we don't snap him up. That would worry me only if Roy is the best man for the job. If he's not, then it's irrelevant.

Again, I am not necessarily opposed to hiring Roy for one or the other of the two positions (preferably GM). What I am opposed to is mindlessly anointing him just because he's Patrick Roy. Can we please do this properly for once?

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I'm of the opinion that Roy needs to be a part of this organization going further but I don't know which role I want him in.