JMMR Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 The number of times carbo had the fourth line on the ice for an offensive zone faceoff, following a TV timeout drove me INSANE. Unless you have one of the top 4th lines in the league this should NEVER happen. Offensive zone face offs should be dolled out as follows 40%- 1st line, 40% 2d line 20% 3rd line. Yes this drove me nuts as well. I still cannot believe the Habs were the highest scoring team in 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 I do not have the technical eye of a Commandant, but the team I saw under Carbo simply did not seem to be a very well-coached team. There was very little structure to their game and everything relied on offensive momentum. When the players finally quit on him altogether it was even worse - total chaos out there. I still cannot believe the way he was immediately sainted as a martyr upon his firing; and that he's not been hired since is, I think, telling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 I do not have the technical eye of a Commandant, but the team I saw under Carbo simply did not seem to be a very well-coached team. There was very little structure to their game and everything relied on offensive momentum. When the players finally quit on him altogether it was even worse - total chaos out there. I still cannot believe the way he was immediately sainted as a martyr upon his firing; and that he's not been hired since is, I think, telling. The biggest difference between the 08 and 09 team was puck support. The 08 team relied on a number of short, quck passes to move the puck quickly and create transition offence. The 09 team stopped doing the short passes and looked for way more home run passes. The 08 team won with speed, but it was speed of moving the puck quickly... the puck is always quicker than what the opponents can catch up to it. The 09 team wanted to beat teams by skating faster than them and going for long bomb passes. This got worse as the season went on. This can work and can create offence, but its way lower percentage of plays than the 08 team was using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 The biggest difference between the 08 and 09 team was puck support. The 08 team relied on a number of short, quck passes to move the puck quickly and create transition offence. The 09 team stopped doing the short passes and looked for way more home run passes. The 08 team won with speed, but it was speed of moving the puck quickly... the puck is always quicker than what the opponents can catch up to it. The 09 team wanted to beat teams by skating faster than them and going for long bomb passes. This got worse as the season went on. This can work and can create offence, but its way lower percentage of plays than the 08 team was using. So, you're saying the team was well-coached in 08 but not 09? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 So, you're saying the team was well-coached in 08 but not 09? The 09 team clearly stopped following Carbo's coaching, completely tuned him out, and he lost the room in a way and to such a degree that I've rarely ever seen. For the 08 team, everything went right from about late november 07 to the end of the season. The team started playing well and it snowballed. Its easy to coach in those conditions For the 09 team, things started well and then they hit a rough patch, Carbo had no ability to deal with the rough patch, he had no ability to right the ship. The players figured out that when the going got tough he didn't know what he was doing, and they quit on him. That was Carbo's issue, and its not a good issue to have because a season like 2007-2008 is rare. No injury problems, everything he touched turned to gold, etc.... Far more teams will have a rough patch like we experienced in 2008-09 but at some point the coach recovers from that and turns the team around. Carbo couldn't turn us around, and we wouldn't have made the playoffs if Gainey didn't come in and find the recipe for success which was Tanguay - Koivu - Kovalev down the stretch. Unfortunately Tanguay and Markov got hurt before the playoffs and we were up shit creek cause we had nothing else going for us. Oh and P.S. Claude Julien and John Stevens both badly outcoached Carbo in those playoffs, and we only beat the Bruins inspite of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 The 09 team clearly stopped following Carbo's coaching, completely tuned him out, and he lost the room in a way and to such a degree that I've rarely ever seen. For the 08 team, everything went right from about late november 07 to the end of the season. The team started playing well and it snowballed. Its easy to coach in those conditions For the 09 team, things started well and then they hit a rough patch, Carbo had no ability to deal with the rough patch, he had no ability to right the ship. The players figured out that when the going got tough he didn't know what he was doing, and they quit on him. That was Carbo's issue, and its not a good issue to have because a season like 2007-2008 is rare. No injury problems, everything he touched turned to gold, etc.... Far more teams will have a rough patch like we experienced in 2008-09 but at some point the coach recovers from that and turns the team around. Carbo couldn't turn us around, and we wouldn't have made the playoffs if Gainey didn't come in and find the recipe for success which was Tanguay - Koivu - Kovalev down the stretch. Unfortunately Tanguay and Markov got hurt before the playoffs and we were up shit creek cause we had nothing else going for us. Oh and P.S. Claude Julien and John Stevens both badly outcoached Carbo in those playoffs, and we only beat the Bruins inspite of this. The only thing you can say in Carbo's defence is that he had a team of spoiled punks. Higgins, Komi, Price, the Kostitsyns - all had major growing-up to do, and had been given zero mentoring by the organization (a failing for which Carbo has to take some degree of blame, but not as much as Gainey). And then there's Kovalev, the ultimate enigma. But this is not to let Carbo off the hook, as there is little to show that he was a particularly good coach. I remain puzzled by how a player and smart and knowledgable as Carbonneau could fail to transmute those qualities into ace coaching. And I hated the fact that Carbo was instantly turned into a martyr the minute he was fired, including by some of the same people who had previously called for his firing (yeah, Boone, I'm looking at you). Something about coaching in Montreal generates a bizarre amount of irrational commentary (Carbo was wrongly fired!!! Martin is the worst coach in history!!! Etc.). It can drive ya nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 And I hated the fact that Carbo was instantly turned into a martyr the minute he was fired, Wasn't part of that Carbo's doing? "One day the truth will come out..." Not to mention Gainey blowing up the team a couple months later made it look like Carbo shouldn't have been fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoloCup Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Little off topic but is there something wrong with Collberg? Most everyone proclaimed we got a steal in the 2nd round and now just reading he's not even invited to the Swedish WJC camp. Odd for a guy to play that well on a gold medal squad not to at least get an invite unless he was a lock for the NHL which can't see that happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Little off topic but is there something wrong with Collberg? Most everyone proclaimed we got a steal in the 2nd round and now just reading he's not even invited to the Swedish WJC camp. Odd for a guy to play that well on a gold medal squad not to at least get an invite unless he was a lock for the NHL which can't see that happening. He has a shoulder injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Little off topic but is there something wrong with Collberg? Most everyone proclaimed we got a steal in the 2nd round and now just reading he's not even invited to the Swedish WJC camp. Odd for a guy to play that well on a gold medal squad not to at least get an invite unless he was a lock for the NHL which can't see that happening. He was invited to the camp. He got hurt at the camp Now he is not participating in the summer tourney because of that injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoloCup Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 He was invited to the camp. He got hurt at the camp Now he is not participating in the summer tourney because of that injury. Thanks for the update, thought it strange and google came up empty, hopefully nothing too serious and he can still make the team Always more interesting watching the WJC with Habs prospects in there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Thanks for the update, thought it strange and google came up empty, hopefully nothing too serious and he can still make the team Always more interesting watching the WJC with Habs prospects in there He's a guaranteed lock for the team if healthy. Not even a question of making it or not making it. We just need a diagnosis on the shoulder, and him to stay healthy in the SEL. No one has said what is wrong with the shoulder other than he is definitely out of this weeks tourney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 He's a guaranteed lock for the team if healthy. Not even a question of making it or not making it. We just need a diagnosis on the shoulder, and him to stay healthy in the SEL. No one has said what is wrong with the shoulder other than he is definitely out of this weeks tourney. Hope its minor, if not surgery could hold him out a full year. Shoulders can be awful rehab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Hope its minor, if not surgery could hold him out a full year. Shoulders can be awful rehab. He scored a goal in an intrasquad game for Frolunda yesterday so it must have been something minor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 He scored a goal in an intrasquad game for Frolunda yesterday so it must have been something minor. Fantastic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 He scored a goal in an intrasquad game for Frolunda yesterday so it must have been something minor. or its major and he is still to bad ass for it to matter ! Mario Lemieux style Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Collberg's highlight reels are amazing. Hope he can make the leap to N Amer hochey quickly. Shame he isn't coming over for a year of major juniors. Nothing against the Elite league, I consider it one of the best in the world. However,the game and life are just abit different here and I feel players benefit from the experiance. Great talent and fine pick. Glad he is healthy!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Collberg's highlight reels are amazing. Hope he can make the leap to N Amer hochey quickly. Shame he isn't coming over for a year of major juniors. Nothing against the Elite league, I consider it one of the best in the world. However,the game and life are just abit different here and I feel players benefit from the experiance. Great talent and fine pick. Glad he is healthy!!! In lookin at good Swedish players; all of Backstrom, Karlsson, Alfredsson, Forsberg, Sundin went straight from SEL to NHL and have fine to great rookie seasons and obviously good careers. So i cant even think of any Swede who came over early, played junior and then had good career, except Landeskogg. Even Magnus Paajarvi, who some are already calling a bust at 21 years old, had a nice 34 point rookie year on a crap team. So really for Collberg to develop his all-round game vs men in SEL for 1 more year is likely best and even before the draft he said he was already committed to play SEL and seemed to look forward to 1 more year in Home country and dont think CHL was ever even a consideration for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 There is talk going around that Dudley has been talking up Colby Armstrong as a top six possibility as he can comfortably play both wings and scored 22 goals only a few seasons back. I guess the idea as well (Dudley didn't say this of course) is that Colby Armstrong is regarded as a dangerous player and if Plekanec is being matched against the best players on the opposing team, having Armstrong might scare a good player from going into the corners with him, opening up Plekanec and Gionta. Speculation like this just makes me want exhibition to start. EDIT: Just heard the Dudley interview where people are getting this idea. Nothing similar was said, just that he thinks Armstrong can be a 20 goal scorer again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 There is talk going around that Dudley has been talking up Colby Armstrong as a top six possibility as he can comfortably play both wings and scored 22 goals only a few seasons back. I guess the idea as well (Dudley didn't say this of course) is that Colby Armstrong is regarded as a dangerous player and if Plekanec is being matched against the best players on the opposing team, having Armstrong might scare a good player from going into the corners with him, opening up Plekanec and Gionta. Speculation like this just makes me want exhibition to start. EDIT: Just heard the Dudley interview where people are getting this idea. Nothing similar was said, just that he thinks Armstrong can be a 20 goal scorer again. I highly doubt Armstrong will do much offensively and only had one 20 goal season and is .46 PPG guy for career and seems quite fragile, so if gets 40 points will be a bonus. But he can bring other grinder elements that could be of use on 3rd or 4th line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I'd be all for Colby Armstrong in the top six if he hits Seguin high and puts him out for the year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 I'd be all for Colby Armstrong in the top six if he hits Seguin high and puts him out for the year... Meh.. Seguin is ight. just down Chara for some revenge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Meh.. Seguin is ight. just down Chara for some revenge Yeh, for now anyway, Seguin is one of 2 Bruins I can tolerate (Bergeron being the other). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Bergeron grew up hating the Habs as a Nordiques fan and once basically said if he got drafted by Montreal he would have been playing to get out. You shouldn't like him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Yeh, for now anyway, Seguin is one of 2 Bruins I can tolerate (Bergeron being the other). You wouldnt want Lucic-Chara-Thorton-Krejci-Seidenberg-Marchand on your team? All are good players and would look fine in a Hab jersey. Marchand is an irritating pest and something that the Habs have been missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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