G Man Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 agree with gorges NOT being captain. he just isn't good enough. i think patches is the guy to captain this team moving forward. very vocal in the locker room. great in front of the cameras and he's one of our core best players. after him id choose markov short term for a few years while subban continues to grow into being the first Black superstar captain in NHL history!! Projecting forward I don't see Gorges on this team if we are going to move the needle towards eventually contending. Markov, Subban, Emelin, Tinordi needs to become our top 4 sooner rather than later. Pateryn/Beaulieu can become your bottom pairing... ...and you hope Beaulieu can develop his game enough to take a top 4 spot once Markov retires. You have to make room for those players, Gorges will have to be one of the guys who will have to leave. He could be a bottom pairing, but not at that cap hit. Anyhow.. while he is good, personally I need my defensive Dmen to be bigger and bring a more physical element to the game. Tinordi, Emelin, Pateryn better fit that mold. Diaz will have to go as well.. not sure he has much value but I'd like to see him traded, or simply not re-signed this summer. It will be time to shed low-ceiling veterans like Gorges, Diaz, Bouillon and make room for Tinordi, Pateryn, Beaulieu. Risky to bring up so many kids at the same time, but if we're not going to contend.. I'd rather start counting on them now and accelerate the learning curve, even if we have to live with some growing pains. Unloading Gorges' salary will also help absorb Subban's new massive cap hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 That isn't even relevant to the discussion. Boston traded Seguin because they weren't happy with him. It wasn't a Seguin or Bergeron, or even Seguin or Krejci decision. More on this. When Boston made a trade it was not Bergeron. It was Seguin. Sort of tells the value of this type of player. I really like Eller, and he could do well with it, but I'm not so sure we would benefit from this sort of trade. I would almost rather try to trade for a #3 defenseman this year. It would be cheaper and would help the teams transition a lot. The defense from #3 down are all playing one spot too high on the depth chart. I can't see one guy turning this team from a fast transition team to a big cycle team. That defenseman would help the transition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 You don't constantly change captains. Pleks for now. Once he retires/gets traded you re-evaluate. It would be great if Galchenyuk or Subban are ready at that time. agree with gorges NOT being captain. he just isn't good enough. i think patches is the guy to captain this team moving forward. very vocal in the locker room. great in front of the cameras and he's one of our core best players. after him id choose markov short term for a few years while subban continues to grow into being the first Black superstar captain in NHL history!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 That isn't even relevant to the discussion. Boston traded Seguin because they weren't happy with him. It wasn't a Seguin or Bergeron, or even Seguin or Krejci decision. I would argue that they had 3 top 6 centres and wanted depth on wing. Seguin may have been pissing them off, but I can't see it being easy to trade a future number one centre because you are mad at him. I think from a business and team balance perspective the guy to go would be either Kreijci (spelling) or Seguin. Bergeron never entered the equation because of his defensive prowess. To me that is very relavant to the discussion. Montreal has 5 top 6 centres. 14, 27, 48, 51, 81. 4 top 6 if Eller settles in as a strong 3rd line. 27 is too young, 14 is too valuable defensively 48 is virtualy untadeable, so to me trading 51 is the only option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakiqc Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 I really don't think you can get a 22 y.o. Evander Kane for Plekanec. Plekanec is my favourite player but I really don't know how and why the Jets would trade Kane for him. He is about where Subban was 2 years ago. He already has a 30-goals campaign (something Plekanec hasn't accomplished thus far). Oh and did I say he is 22 ? If Bergevin can't sign PK long term, I'd trade PK straight up for Kane and try to sign Kane long term ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I really don't think you can get a 22 y.o. Evander Kane for Plekanec. Plekanec is my favourite player but I really don't know how and why the Jets would trade Kane for him. He is about where Subban was 2 years ago. He already has a 30-goals campaign (something Plekanec hasn't accomplished thus far). Oh and did I say he is 22 ? If Bergevin can't sign PK long term, I'd trade PK straight up for Kane and try to sign Kane long term ASAP. thats crazy talk!! PK is one of the top 5 defensemen in the league. evander kane is not one of the top 5 wingers in the league. plex is better then evander kane all day long You don't constantly change captains. Pleks for now. Once he retires/gets traded you re-evaluate. It would be great if Galchenyuk or Subban are ready at that time. i meant id go with patches as captain and if not him markov for the years he has left before retirement and by then PK would be the man with the C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Believe it or not Evander Kane for Plekanec actually makes the habs smaller again, like the Cole for Ryder swap. Kane weighs in at 160 lbs. Bergevin is going to sit pat. The trade market has been terrible this year, and he isn't going to do a big trade. He seems to be a very hands off GM, which is good and bad. Good, because a Gomez/McDonagh trade won't happen, but bad, because when you look at the Stanley Cup winners recently, most of them, especially Boston pulled some blockbusters. It's the responsibility of the GM to make something happen. Signing your players to cap friendly deals is great, but make a deal. Sign a big free agent. Shake things up a bit. He wants to emulate Chicago, but I don't think we have the horses in the prospect pool for that. I see Subban and Keith as a wash, Galchenyuk, imo tops out at 70 pts and there's no game breaker like Patrick Kane in sight. Perhaps the continuation of Carey Price into dominance, coupled with a solid defensive core in Subban, Emelin, Markov, Beaulieu Gorges and Tinordi makes up for some offensive firepower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Believe it or not Evander Kane for Plekanec actually makes the habs smaller again, like the Cole for Ryder swap. Kane weighs in at 160 lbs. Bergevin is going to sit pat. The trade market has been terrible this year, and he isn't going to do a big trade. He seems to be a very hands off GM, which is good and bad. Good, because a Gomez/McDonagh trade won't happen, but bad, because when you look at the Stanley Cup winners recently, most of them, especially Boston pulled some blockbusters. It's the responsibility of the GM to make something happen. Signing your players to cap friendly deals is great, but make a deal. Sign a big free agent. Shake things up a bit. He wants to emulate Chicago, but I don't think we have the horses in the prospect pool for that. I see Subban and Keith as a wash, Galchenyuk, imo tops out at 70 pts and there's no game breaker like Patrick Kane in sight. Perhaps the continuation of Carey Price into dominance, coupled with a solid defensive core in Subban, Emelin, Markov, Beaulieu Gorges and Tinordi makes up for some offensive firepower. lol 160lbs? What are you talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakiqc Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 thats crazy talk!! PK is one of the top 5 defensemen in the league. evander kane is not one of the top 5 wingers in the league. plex is better then evander kane all day long i meant id go with patches as captain and if not him markov for the years he has left before retirement and by then PK would be the man with the C 1st - E. Kane is 22 y.o. 2nd - last season: 200 shots on goals, 150 hits Only one other player had comparable stats, Ovechkin 220 SOG 120 hits 3rd - last season 17 goals in 48 games -- equivalent to 30 goals in a regular season = Two X 30 goals season in 4 NHL seasons. 4th - he is on pace for a 3rd 30 goals season in 5 NHL seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 I think you are thinking of Patrick Kane. Evander Kane is your prototypical power forward that the Bruins columnists have been salivating over and suggesting how they can get him for Marchand and other prospects. Believe it or not Evander Kane for Plekanec actually makes the habs smaller again, like the Cole for Ryder swap. Kane weighs in at 160 lbs. Bergevin is going to sit pat. The trade market has been terrible this year, and he isn't going to do a big trade. He seems to be a very hands off GM, which is good and bad. Good, because a Gomez/McDonagh trade won't happen, but bad, because when you look at the Stanley Cup winners recently, most of them, especially Boston pulled some blockbusters. It's the responsibility of the GM to make something happen. Signing your players to cap friendly deals is great, but make a deal. Sign a big free agent. Shake things up a bit. He wants to emulate Chicago, but I don't think we have the horses in the prospect pool for that. I see Subban and Keith as a wash, Galchenyuk, imo tops out at 70 pts and there's no game breaker like Patrick Kane in sight. Perhaps the continuation of Carey Price into dominance, coupled with a solid defensive core in Subban, Emelin, Markov, Beaulieu Gorges and Tinordi makes up for some offensive firepower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 lol 160lbs? What are you talking about. That's what he was listed at on hockeyfights.com http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/7390 Not the best source..but they have Tinordi listed at 6'4 so it must be a problem with all of their size listings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 That's what he was listed at on hockeyfights.com http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/7390 Not the best source..but they have Tinordi listed at 6'4 so it must be a problem with all of their size listings. Ya, that's weird they have him listed at that size on there. He's like 6'2 200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Ya, that's weird they have him listed at that size on there. He's like 6'2 200. Maybe they do the listing at the time of their first fight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Maybe they do the listing at the time of their first fight? A lot of times a players size is listed predraft and is never updated. Even at that you must have got the wrong Kane. Evander was probably still in peewee at 160. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 1st - E. Kane is 22 y.o. 2nd - last season: 200 shots on goals, 150 hits Only one other player had comparable stats, Ovechkin 220 SOG 120 hits 3rd - last season 17 goals in 48 games -- equivalent to 30 goals in a regular season = Two X 30 goals season in 4 NHL seasons. 4th - he is on pace for a 3rd 30 goals season in 5 NHL seasons. you would trade PK subban for evander kane straight up?? thats crazy talk period. if we are trading PK subban we need to be getting the malkin's/ovechins/stamkos/tavares of the world not evander kane who with all do respect (you project would of scored 30 goals last year given an 82 game schedule). just as info subban had 5 less goals then him but 5 points more LY. 1st kane 22yrs correct pk subban is not old BTW 2nd shooting percentage of 7% (hardly something to write home about) 3rd last season he was on pace for 29 goals over 82 not 30 and this season he is on pace for 27. with that said one multi goal game and those projections change drastically! thats why I'm not a fan of projecting goals. look at max or ryder or DD as examples of projections being made prior to hot streaks or goals /points coming in bunches or slumps 4th as i said in #3 he has one 30 goal season one 17 goal season*( lockout) and is on pace for 27 this year. all I'm saying is PK out scored him last year and will most likely put up more points then him this year, all the while playing D. we are 100 times better with PK in our line hip then with evander kane in it. PK subban for evander kane straight up is crazy talk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 While I'm everything but a fan of trading PK for E. Kane, you guys forgot about the first part of Sakiqc's sentence : If Bergevin can't sign PK long term, I'd trade PK straight up for Kane and try to sign Kane long term ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 13, 2014 Author Share Posted January 13, 2014 If bergevin can't sign PK long term, we need a new GM While I'm everything but a fan of trading PK for E. Kane, you guys forgot about the first part of Sakiqc's sentence : If Bergevin can't sign PK long term, I'd trade PK straight up for Kane and try to sign Kane long term ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 If bergevin can't sign PK long term, we need a new GM If Meehan tells the Habs that Subban's going to file for arbitration twice and force his way to UFA, they won't be able to sign him long-term then. (Of course, if that's his plan, I don't think anyone else would be able to either...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Agreed, and even if you can't sign him you still don't trade him for kane. he is only an RFA so he will be signed any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 If Meehan tells the Habs that Subban's going to file for arbitration twice and force his way to UFA, they won't be able to sign him long-term then. (Of course, if that's his plan, I don't think anyone else would be able to either...) I don't think we have seen any sign that PK will do that. My impression is he wants a long term deal, and to stay with the Habs. Meehan however is a very tough agent so be prepared for a tough negotiation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Bergevin should just get the deal done. PK's value is only going up. He already pinched his pennies on the bridge deal. Time to pay up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I'm sorry but after Bergevin signed Briere, I lost a lot of faith in him. Don't be surprised if a short term contract happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 The rumour is that he MAY choose arbitration in order to maximize dollars, because when he goes UFA, the cap will be even higher. Just a rumour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 The rumour is that he MAY choose arbitration in order to maximize dollars, because when he goes UFA, the cap will be even higher. Just a rumour. I would too. Happens in all lines of work when the boss squeezes you for a raise. Imagine how much money he would make in free agency? Plus he wouldn't have to deal with Therrien, the Canadian dollar, and a franchise that can't get out of it's own way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I think there is a difference between Subban going for a short-term deal in order to maximize his payout later on, and him intending to leave Montreal. The former could just be his maximizing his leverage; nothing would stop him from then signing up with Montreal long-term at maximum dollars. It's just business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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