Pleks - two polar opposite options

[hab29RETIRED]

After the game tonight and seeing how dominating Pleks was on the PK, as well as helping shutdown one of the best lines in hockey, I'm kind of torn.

On the one hand, I really think he is the habs best trade chip to get a young big forward with skill - particularly this year where being captain of the Czech team. I really think he can bring us an Evander Kane and if Murray hadn't scooped him up last year, a guy like Bobby Ryan. Who knows, he might even be the one guy that in a package that could net us Taylor Hall (that's probably a stretch - but Pleks is EXACTLY what the Oilers need). In a package deal with Winnepeg, I think Pleks could probably bring a forward like Kane AND a Dman like Bogosian. neither have lived up to their potential with the Jets.

On the other hand, he would leave a HUGE whole in our lineup. I do think that Eller could be a Pleks lite, the same way that 4 years ago I was calling Pleks a Datysuk lite (and was getting ripped to shreds on this site). I'm also a huge Pleks fan. he was my favourite from who I thought were the big three prospects under the last Habs regime. Along with Higgins and AK46 Pleks was my favourite tab from the last rebuild. I still remember seeing a game in Buffalo after the last lockout, where Briere pretty much did in the habs, but Pleks and Higgins played with that never quit tenacity, and I knew from that one game both of these guys would be great players. While AK46 is gone to the KHL and Higgins is finally showing he is a solid 3rd line blood and guts guy in Vancouver, Plkes has really turned into a guy who SHOULD have been nominated for the Selke in at least 3 of the last 5 years. By far he has been the most consistent hab over the last 5 years.

Anyway, I see two options for what to do with Pleks and they are on the polar extreme of each other. We can trade him IF we can get a big return that should make us stronger for the next 5 or 6 years. Or we keep him and make him our next captain next year once Gionta is sent packing. I think i'd be okay with either decision - as long as Pleks is made the next captain and we don't end up making a guy like Gorges the captain.

[Neech]

Trading Pleks would mean entering into a mini-rebuild, even if we got a star like Evander Kane or Eberle (EDM isn't letting go of Hall, who they should have made captain had Eakins had an ounce of sense). In that case, we should also move Markov (and anyone else over 30), and go forward hoping our young guys will round into shape in 2-3 years time. There's a case to be made for that: mainly, that we might not have the pieces to be a contender within the Pleks-Markov window (Markov having probably a maximum of 3 effective years left, Pleks with 3-5). It could make sense to build around Galchenyuk, with Eller, Subban and Pacioretty being our future vets.

I'd rather sit tight with Pleks - you know what you're getting from him, and any trade's return is unlikely to be superior to that. We have a pretty good team with him, and it's unusual for a club in our position to regress in the hopes of long-term gains (even though it could very well be the right move). It's sort of like trading our captain before heading into the playoffs.

[hab29RETIRED]

Trading Pleks would mean entering into a mini-rebuild, even if we got a star like Evander Kane or Eberle (EDM isn't letting go of Hall, who they should have made captain had Eakins had an ounce of sense). In that case, we should also move Markov (and anyone else over 30), and go forward hoping our young guys will round into shape in 2-3 years time. There's a case to be made for that: mainly, that we might not have the pieces to be a contender within the Pleks-Markov window (Markov having probably a maximum of 3 effective years left, Pleks with 3-5). It could make sense to build around Galchenyuk, with Eller, Subban and Pacioretty being our future vets.

I'd rather sit tight with Pleks - you know what you're getting from him, and any trade's return is unlikely to be superior to that. We have a pretty good team with him, and it's unusual for a club in our position to regress in the hopes of long-term gains (even though it could very well be the right move). It's sort of like trading our captain before heading into the playoffs.

There is no way I'd trade Markov AND Pleks. If we do, i think we'd be in the same situation as Edmonton, Winnepeg, and Phllly. A team with a lot of high potential players, without veterans to show them the ropes when things aren't going well.

I think giving more responsibility to Eller this year, would better prepare him to come in next year as a better player. I also think we could potentially be MUCH stronger this year, by making us a deal that gives us a solid top 4 D (Subban-Markov-Emelin- and let's say Bogosian) and have the D potentially eve stronger if a guy like Tinordi can be an impact player by mid-year next year.

Up front if we can FINALLY get a physical guy who can score and control the boards, we could have two very strong forward lines. What those lines would look like would depend if Galchenyuk is ready to be a centre (in which case I'd try and move DD). Assuming if we moved Pleks/Gorges/Bourque/Pateryn for Kane/Bogosian/If Galchenyuk isn't ready, a potential lineup of the following would be better IMO:

MaxPac-DD-Gallegher

Galchenyuk-Eller-Kane

Bournival-Derek ROy-Briere/Leblanc/other rookie/signing

Prust-White-Moen

Subban-Emelin

Markov-Bogosian

Tinordi-Murray

I haven't given as much thought to the third line, but that i think we could make other moves to shore that up. Personally, I think that if Leblanc isn't going to be given a chance next year, he HAS to be moved and Diaz could be resigned for additional depth until Tinordi is ready, or traded at the end of this year.

On the other hand, if we don't move Pleks, I'd like MB to prioritize on the following:

1. Resign Subban and Markov
2. Either resign or trade Diaz
3. Move Bourque and his lazy ass out
4. Move Briere at the end of the year (unless we can somehow get a decent return for him this year)
5. Prioritize on getting Pleks a guy who will drive hard to the net and has some finish (getting a guy like a young stud like Grigerenko would be a great option)
6. Move Gionta or let him walk at the end of the year and give the C to Pleks
7. Move Gorges and get a true top 4 pairing Dman (I don't see how we can get a true top 4 pairing Dman and pay Gorges $4M)

[Neech]

I don't think the team you listed there is any better than this current roster. Look at the centres: if either DD or Eller go in to a funk, which they are wont to do, we're paper thin down the middle The bottom line, in my view, is if you're trading Pleks you're opening up a huge hole on the roster. Eller's a fine two-way player, but he's not filling that hole. So you might as well trade the other vets because you're sacrificing short-term performance for supposed long-term gain. (by the way, we wouldn't end up like EDM, with Subban, Price and Pacioretty as established stars).

I'd hang on to Pleks, who along with Eller make a killer second and third centre combo. Our top-line centre is the problem, so when and if Galchenyuk is ready to move in to that position, I'd move DD, who most agree isn't a top-6 player on a contender. I think he has some value for someone, especially with a rising cap. It would be addition by subtraction if Galchenyuk is taking the leap.

[habs rule]

Grigorenko and the sabres are not too happy with each other, I would love to steal him away from them.

We need goal scoring, so if it means we have to give up some defence (plex) Then that may be the only choice.

In spite of everyone being afraid of trading the captain, him gotta go asap. If we don't trade him before the deadline we lose him for zippo. Lets get something for him. And unlike The Ghost we wont expect him to pay for his sweater.

Briere and DD need to go but I don't think the return will excite anyone. Diaz could stay or go, he is a decent player just not physical. Bourque will have to go, but ya know, every now and then he comes to play and man he can play. Just don't happen too often. all in all I pretty much agree with what you are saying. Unfortunately no matter what we do it will become a mini rebuild by the time we clear out the deadwood.

[PMAC]

Anyway, I see two options for what to do with Pleks and they are on the polar extreme of each other. We can trade him IF we can get a big return that should make us stronger for the next 5 or 6 years. Or we keep him and make him our next captain next year once Gionta is sent packing. I think i'd be okay with either decision - as long as Pleks is made the next captain and we don't end up making a guy like Gorges the captain.

The way I see it is that Plex is going to be the 2-way player that anchors first couple of years of our solid contending status... and with a little luck leads us to a Cup in the not too distant future. On a team as potentially erratic as this one the idea of trading our most consistent player does not appeal. I also see him as the next captain over Gorges.

However, I think a two for one deal like Kane and Bogdosian would be a steal.... short-term pain for long term gain. I don't see the Jets going for it though. In short, I think--and hope-- Plexs stays but for the right package anyone can be traded

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I would not move him.

If Ellers ceiling is Plek lite then that means he'll never bring what Plekanec does. You don't know what the future brings and going with Eller could mean finding yourself with a Radek Bonk on the third line instead of him growing into a hitting Plekanec.

For most it's all about getting younger but I'd rather keep Plek and package Eller for a guy like Kane. Winnipeg would probably favour it too.

As I've pointed out before, when the Kings needed a guy like Plek they went after Mike Richards. The cost included Wayne Simmonds, who most here would never trade back then due to his age, size and play style. That's Eller for us. To me he's the guy we move to get what we need. Not a guy who once he's gone, we have to hope and pray someone fills his skates.

[KoRP]

It would be nice to know what Bergevin is planning wouldn't it? Sounds like half of us are worried he is going to trade Plek and Markov, and the other half is worried that he won't. Ultimately I guess it would and will come down to the return or the offer. As much as I would like to see some size and scoring added, I shudder to think about how many games we could win right now without these two in the line up. I agree with what 29Retired said about needing the right veterans to bring our young core along, and right now Markov and Plek are still elite players, life long Habs, and they want to be there, trading them sends kinda the wrong message to their team mates maybe? I think moving Briere, DD, Gionta and Bourque before next season would be the right moves to change our team's chemistry, and allow us to replace smurfs with size, leaving our elite players to teach the core on life as a Hab, and how to win!

I'm not sold on E. Kane being the type of personality we need in MTL, albeit he is the type of player we need more of. I'd be looking to St.Louis to acquire Stewart, I know he is older, but is a solid player, who can score and fight and hit, and would not take the assets to acquire that Kane would. If we are to trade Plekanec, it needs to be a substantial return, like a 1st rounder, a prospect, and a roster player with size. Every other team has players that they ask a crazy return for, that is not the player Plekanec is, and they are getting what they ask for in deadline deals for veterans to try and win the cup now. Plekanec is worth a lot I say.....

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I like Habs29's original post above, and I don't have any easier answers to the questions it poses.

What I can say is that I don't think Bergevin will trade Pleks. It's easy for armchair GMs to sit back and say, "well, the only way we can become contenders is by moving this terrific player to get back two key organizational pieces." There may be truth in that - squinting into the future, I just don't see the Habs as having the pieces to become genuine contenders. A good team with an outside chance to win, sure; but a Chicago, St. Louis or Pittsburgh? No. But I doubt Bergevin thinks like this. He almost certainly sees Pleks as a core piece of any future winning team and probably an irreplaceable asset. GMs tend to favour the bird in the hand. You think Philly is happy they traded Carter and Richards only to watch those guys become the core of a Cup team that very year? Maybe they should have kept the birds in the hand.

And Pleks is only 31. Look at Datsyuk, 35 with no signs of slowing down; if Plekanec follows that template we could be looking at another 5-7 years of him playing at this level (!). When you frame it that way, trading him is insane.

All of this is to say is that moving him is a nervy, high-risk, high-reward move. I would admire the GM who pulls the trigger to trade Pleks for two young players, say, a top-3 forward and a top-4 defender, which is what Habs29 envisions. That could indeed bump our future up a notch, from "good team" to "serious contender." It could also blow up in our face by gutting our roster of its heart and future captain. Few GMs will take such a risk. I don't think "patient builder Bergie" will.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

man... the key to winning trades is getting the best player back. plex would be the best player back in all these trades. we would be the loser in all of them.

moving an expiring contract + picks and marginal prospects for a significant player under contract? thats ideally what MB should be looking at. we trade 3+ assets for 1. those are always the trades that are won.

id personally like to see a sign and trade for Ott to centre moen and prust. that would give us one helluva 4th line. maybe best in the league and a line that would make you drool in the playoffs.

[Neech]

As I've pointed out before, when the Kings needed a guy like Plek they went after Mike Richards. The cost included Wayne Simmonds, who most here would never trade back then due to his age, size and play style. That's Eller for us. To me he's the guy we move to get what we need. Not a guy who once he's gone, we have to hope and pray someone fills his skates.

That's an interesting comparison, but it's important to note that they made that trade a year or two further into their rebuild than we are at this point. They were already knocking on the door for a few seasons, and Richards was the veteran piece to win now. They also had much more in the way of valuable prospects to move for him than we do at this point.

The ONLY reason that I'd consider moving Pleks would be a grim appraisal of our assets for the next 3-7 years, and us deciding that it just isn't enough. But as has been pointed out, this is neither a move GMs tend to make, nor necessarily the correct one with the uncertainty that is inherent in future assets.

[JoeLassister]

Any clue what is the "modified NTC" that Plekanec has ?

[Link67]

Any clue what is the "modified NTC" that Plekanec has ?

I think it is simply a reminder clause

Upon being brought up to speed with a possible trade, he is obligated to remind us that we will regret the move very much. Especially if all we get is a Kane or Eberle type player, who don't even out produce Pleks by much if at all, let alone do the rest of the things he can do. Pleks and Max are my 2 untouchable forwards unless the package is mesmerizing, Kane and Eberle are not. Pleks plays the game in a very rare way, only Datsyuk, Begeron, Toews, can do it better. Max Is well on his way to being the most affordable 30 goal scorer in the league, and for a long time too, just based on his production vs cap hit and term, we shouldn't move him if it isn't a major upgrade.

Sometimes I feel that fans just want a trade for the sake of having a trade, what part of a patient rebuild from the ground up isn't getting through to people? Did we see Chicago trade away any top line forwards in there prime during there building process? Did we see Pittsburgh do it? We need a player like Pleks during a long playoff run, the same way Boston needed Bergeron, Chicago needed Toews. because regardless of production, these players always get the job done against the other teams top lines.

[JoeLassister]

I think it is simply a reminder clause

Upon being brought up to speed with a possible trade, he is obligated to remind us that we will regret the move very much. Especially if all we get is a Kane or Eberle type player, who don't even out produce Pleks by much if at all, let alone do the rest of the things he can do. Pleks and Max are my 2 untouchable forwards unless the package is mesmerizing, Kane and Eberle are not. Pleks plays the game in a very rare way, only Datsyuk, Begeron, Toews, can do it better. Max Is well on his way to being the most affordable 30 goal scorer in the league, and for a long time too, just based on his production vs cap hit and term, we shouldn't move him if it isn't a major upgrade.

Sometimes I feel that fans just want a trade for the sake of having a trade, what part of a patient rebuild from the ground up isn't getting through to people? Did we see Chicago trade away any top line forwards in there prime during there building process? Did we see Pittsburgh do it? We need a player like Pleks during a long playoff run, the same way Boston needed Bergeron, Chicago needed Toews. because regardless of production, these players always get the job done against the other teams top lines.

I SO MUCH don't care about Evender Kane. Fact is, put Plekanec in front of Kane and he will shut him down day in day out.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Great post, Link. I think we do want to see a trade for the sake of seeing a trade, in part because this team can be so uninspiring on such a regular basis. You watch guys like Bourque dogging it night after night, it's hard not to fantasize about Changes. Trades are fun and this team has had a fairly static roster since the Gal(l)ys were brought up. It's a normal urge, but as you say, that doesn't make it wise.

The other thing about "patient building" is that I think many of us have the uneasy feeling that our prospects are a bit too much like the prospect pool from the Gainey Rebuiuld 1.0 - that's to say, good players but not the nucleus of a future perennial contender. If that's your sense, it's plausible to muse over trades to bolster the high-end young talent in the system.

[G Man]

You only trade Plekanec now if you've given up on being competitive and going for a rebuild.. I don't favor such move, nor do I think the Habs are thinking rebuild.

The mistake was re-signing DD to that term.. he shouldn't be on this team past next season, or even past this season perhaps.

My top 3 centers would be:

Plekanec

Galchenyuk

Eller

Put Plekanec in a more offensive role, with better offensive talent.

Galchenyuk settles in as 2nd offensive line.

Eller is molded into Jordan Staal role.

As Galchenyuk game's evolves, and Plekanec's starts slowing down.. #1 & #2 roles are reversed.

[DON]

I am all for Plekanec getting a letter on his jersey, but can start with a 'A' first and upgrade #26 to 'C'.

If someone offers enough I would trade Gallagher/Galchenyuk/Price.

But Bergevin most probable move at end of Feb will be, Ahler (Dumont) for fringe NHL/AHLer and a 5th round pick to Carolina for Malhotra.

And highly doubt any big move is coming with team on a 100+point pace.

Maybe in the summer a bigger 'hockey-trade' (or sign Brad Richards after his buy-out maybe to replace Gionta?) may happen, which would be more likely, I think.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

It's a good plan, G Man. But if DD keeps producing like he is, there will be a trade market for him, should we choose to go that route.

[BCHabnut]

I think it is simply a reminder clause

Upon being brought up to speed with a possible trade, he is obligated to remind us that we will regret the move very much. Especially if all we get is a Kane or Eberle type player, who don't even out produce Pleks by much if at all, let alone do the rest of the things he can do. Pleks and Max are my 2 untouchable forwards unless the package is mesmerizing, Kane and Eberle are not. Pleks plays the game in a very rare way, only Datsyuk, Begeron, Toews, can do it better. Max Is well on his way to being the most affordable 30 goal scorer in the league, and for a long time too, just based on his production vs cap hit and term, we shouldn't move him if it isn't a major upgrade.

Sometimes I feel that fans just want a trade for the sake of having a trade, what part of a patient rebuild from the ground up isn't getting through to people? Did we see Chicago trade away any top line forwards in there prime during there building process? Did we see Pittsburgh do it? We need a player like Pleks during a long playoff run, the same way Boston needed Bergeron, Chicago needed Toews. because regardless of production, these players always get the job done against the other teams top lines.

More on this. When Boston made a trade it was not Bergeron. It was Seguin. Sort of tells the value of this type of player. I really like Eller, and he could do well with it, but I'm not so sure we would benefit from this sort of trade. I would almost rather try to trade for a #3 defenseman this year. It would be cheaper and would help the teams transition a lot. The defense from #3 down are all playing one spot too high on the depth chart. I can't see one guy turning this team from a fast transition team to a big cycle team. That defenseman would help the transition.

[BCHabnut]

It's a good plan, G Man. But if DD keeps producing like he is, there will be a trade market for him, should we choose to go that route.

This is the trade I would make this year. His stock has certainly risen. I think if Briere was given his natural position and enough minutes, we would see more from him as well.

[hab29RETIRED]

I'd love for them to be our top 3 centers. I doubt we'd get much or anything for DD though. I'd also LOVE to see DD gone this year.

I just think we have too many holes to fill - DD, Gionta, Bourque, Briere and don't see them filled by our own prospects in the next 2 years, which is why Pleks seems to be the only guy that could fill those other holes. Even if we did move Pleks, I'd still want to move DD, but we'd have to first make sure Galchenyuk us ready.

You only trade Plekanec now if you've given up on being competitive and going for a rebuild.. I don't favor such move, nor do I think the Habs are thinking rebuild.

The mistake was re-signing DD to that term.. he shouldn't be on this team past next season, or even past this season perhaps.

My top 3 centers would be:

Plekanec

Galchenyuk

Eller

Put Plekanec in a more offensive role, with better offensive talent.

Galchenyuk settles in as 2nd offensive line.

Eller is molded into Jordan Staal role.

As Galchenyuk game's evolves, and Plekanec's starts slowing down.. #1 & #2 roles are reversed.

[hab29RETIRED]

No way would I want Gorges as the captain. I think it's a mistake that pleks doesn't have a letter today. If his name was Pierre, he'd probably been the captain already. Funny how the Czech NATIONAL team picks him over a guy like Elias to be captain, but he doesn't even have a letter here.

And there is ABSOLUTELY no way I'd sign Brad Richards. We already messed up with Briere. We don't need another guy who USE TO BE a great player, but will still will be looking for term and dollars despite a buyout.

I am all for Plekanec getting a letter on his jersey, but can start with a 'A' first and upgrade #26 to 'C'.

If someone offers enough I would trade Gallagher/Galchenyuk/Price.

But Bergevin most probable move at end of Feb will be, Ahler (Dumont) for fringe NHL/AHLer and a 5th round pick to Carolina for Malhotra.

And highly doubt any big move is coming with team on a 100+point pace.

Maybe in the summer a bigger 'hockey-trade' (or sign Brad Richards after his buy-out maybe to replace Gionta?) may happen, which would be more likely, I think.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

agree with gorges NOT being captain. he just isn't good enough. i think patches is the guy to captain this team moving forward. very vocal in the locker room. great in front of the cameras and he's one of our core best players. after him id choose markov short term for a few years while subban continues to grow into being the first Black superstar captain in NHL history!!

[BCHabnut]

My pick for "C" would be Plek or if he wanted it, Markov. Markov might be a little too grumpy for the job though. Did you see how grumpy he looked when Subban was mauling him after the win? It was so funny.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Does the locker room still decide the captains?