Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I don't think you take rib shots a player then sign him. You have to draw a line between tactics and disrespect Mike Johnson was called the worst player in the league at his arbitration hearing but after re-signing with the Coyotes there was no animosity. Brendan Morrison was called a mouse sitting on the back of elephants in his arbitration hearing. He played six more seasons with the Canucks. Subban said he enjoyed the arbitration hearing. We've known from the start of his career that if there's one guy who isn't going to take things personal, it's Subban. It's less of a hockey negotiation and more of two lawyers arguing on if the player is guilty of avarice or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I have my doubts about him enjoying it like he said. Arb-"Coach Therrien doesn't trust this selfish hot dog during the end of the 10th game of the season." PK-"Man, this is great." Milbury is a scapegoat. That whole franchises problem is Charles Wang. He wanted to put a Sumo wrestler in net in the late 90's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Milbury is a scapegoat. That whole franchises problem is Charles Wang. He wanted to put a Sumo wrestler in net in the late 90's. Milbury was there before Wang. He was there during the John Spano controversy. Several of his dumbest trades ever were not due to Wang but him. He had zero patience on young players. The whole reason he moved Luongo/Jokinen for Kvasha/Parrish was him thinking Kvasha was going to become a Ziggy Palffy style superstar. Wang didn't come in as a part-owner until 2000. By then, Milbury had done a majority of his bad moves (he came in at 95). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Mike Johnson was called the worst player in the league at his arbitration hearing but after re-signing with the Coyotes there was no animosity. Brendan Morrison was called a mouse sitting on the back of elephants in his arbitration hearing. He played six more seasons with the Canucks. Subban said he enjoyed the arbitration hearing. We've known from the start of his career that if there's one guy who isn't going to take things personal, it's Subban. It's less of a hockey negotiation and more of two lawyers arguing on if the player is guilty of avarice or not. There is some truth to the Mike Johnson statement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Milbury was there before Wang. He was there during the John Spano controversy. Several of his dumbest trades ever were not due to Wang but him. He had zero patience on young players. The whole reason he moved Luongo/Jokinen for Kvasha/Parrish was him thinking Kvasha was going to become a Ziggy Palffy style superstar. Wang didn't come in as a part-owner until 2000. By then, Milbury had done a majority of his bad moves (he came in at 95). He's maligned for being a bad GM when he was in about as bad of a situation as he could be in, when you factor in the state of the building, quality of the team, Spano, Wang, the team's budget and the ticket revenues. He made crappy trades, but he had to do something. He's no worse than Rejean Houle. At least he has something of an excuse besides total incompetence. Some of those trades looked better then than now and are bad in hindsight. The Yashin trade is rumored to be a result of Wang wanting a superstar in the next ten minutes, you can't fault him on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 He's maligned for being a bad GM when he was in about as bad of a situation as he could be in, when you factor in the state of the building, quality of the team, Spano, Wang, the team's budget and the ticket revenues. He made crappy trades, but he had to do something. He's no worse than Rejean Houle. At least he has something of an excuse besides total incompetence. Some of those trades looked better then than now and are bad in hindsight. The Yashin trade is rumored to be a result of Wang wanting a superstar in the next ten minutes, you can't fault him on that. - Traded Salo because he made him cry in arbitration - Traded Raffi Torres after only 31 games - Traded Osgood after he helped the Islanders get to the playoffs just because he was struggling in the season. - Drafted DiPietro when the club already had Luongo - Traded Berard for Felix Potvin then traded McCabe/Bertuzzi for Linden, completely destroying their young D core - Traded Jokinen/Luongo for Kvasha/Parrish because he thought Kvasha would replace Palffy That is all without including Yashin or Dumont (who was traded due to finances). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 - Traded Salo because he made him cry in arbitration - Traded Raffi Torres after only 31 games - Traded Osgood after he helped the Islanders get to the playoffs just because he was struggling in the season. - Drafted DiPietro when the club already had Luongo - Traded Berard for Felix Potvin then traded McCabe/Bertuzzi for Linden, completely destroying their young D core - Traded Jokinen/Luongo for Kvasha/Parrish because he thought Kvasha would replace Palffy That is all without including Yashin or Dumont (who was traded due to finances). Zdeno. Chara. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Zdeno. Chara. He was involved in the Yashin deal and was in a long line of defencemen that Milbury gave up early on. The Islanders should have been skating into the 21st century with a core including Luongo, Chara, Berard, McCabe, Bertuzzi, Torres, Jokinen, Brewer and a better return for JP Dumont when he wanted more money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 He was involved in the Yashin deal and was in a long line of defencemen that Milbury gave up early on. The Islanders should have been skating into the 21st century with a core including Luongo, Chara, Berard, McCabe, Bertuzzi, Torres, Jokinen, Brewer and a better return for JP Dumont when he wanted more money. the saddest part is that we had lousy management ourselves and never took advantage of mad mike! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 No...no question, Mike Butternuts Milbury is a very idiotic TV guy and totally incompetent manager. But I do hope he is the next Leafs or Bruins GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 the saddest part is that we had lousy management ourselves and never took advantage of mad mike! We instead took advantage of Don Maloney from the Turgeon/Malakhov for Muller/Schneider trade. That deal screwed the Islanders badly. We did get a first round pick out of the Islanders for Trevor Linden, but that wasn't anything special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 We did get a first round pick out of the Islanders for Trevor Linden, but that wasn't anything special. The Habs got a first rounder for Linden but they got it from Washington. They actually parted with a 1st (10th overall) to the Isles to get him in the first place. Thankfully, the year they dealt that pick was in an absolutely horrific draft class Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 - Traded Salo because he made him cry in arbitration - Traded Raffi Torres after only 31 games - Traded Osgood after he helped the Islanders get to the playoffs just because he was struggling in the season. - Drafted DiPietro when the club already had Luongo - Traded Berard for Felix Potvin then traded McCabe/Bertuzzi for Linden, completely destroying their young D core - Traded Jokinen/Luongo for Kvasha/Parrish because he thought Kvasha would replace Palffy That is all without including Yashin or Dumont (who was traded due to finances). Chara played three unremarkable years in Long Island and didn't become a star for five more years. Where are the rants about Francois Beauchemin being waived? At least they got Ya shin, and at the time of the trade that was a fair deal.Osgood-Sucks Torres-Joke Berard-Money Salo-Even bigger joke Pallfy-Money He pales in comparison to trading Roy, trading Leclair, trading four captains, hiring Tremblay and striking out at the draft every single year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 He was involved in the Yashin deal and was in a long line of defencemen that Milbury gave up early on. The Islanders should have been skating into the 21st century with a core including Luongo, Chara, Berard, McCabe, Bertuzzi, Torres, Jokinen, Brewer and a better return for JP Dumont when he wanted more money. That's 100% hindsight. Right now we should have: Subban-McDonagh Beauchemin-Markov Streit-Emelin Hainsey Best defense in the last 40 years! All of these deals turned into flops later. Mad Mike wasn't a good GM, but I would say maybe 20% of it was his fault. With the crew they had in Long Island, he was the bright light. Very scary place to be. They almost sold the franchise to Spano for Cripe's Sake, and he was worth like 3 million dollars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 That's 100% hindsight. Right now we should have: Subban-McDonagh Beauchemin-Markov Streit-Emelin Hainsey Best defense in the last 40 years! All of these deals turned into flops later. Mad Mike wasn't a good GM, but I would say maybe 20% of it was his fault. With the crew they had in Long Island, he was the bright light. Very scary place to be. They almost sold the franchise to Spano for Cripe's Sake, and he was worth like 3 million dollars. Beauchemin, Hainsey, Strait? You are joking i assume? over $5m for Strait, no thanks dont think I would trade Plekanec to fit him in roster and the other two are mediocre d at best. 'Almost' sold means very little, kinda like 'If only....'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meller93 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Beauchemin, Hainsey, Strait? You are joking i assume? over $5m for Strait, no thanks dont think I would trade Plekanec to fit him in roster and the other two are mediocre d at best. 'Almost' sold means very little, kinda like 'If only....'. To call beauchemin mediocre after how he's been with Anaheim ain't right. I mean hell, his name was tossed around with the words "Norris trophy" in 2013 if I remember correctly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 He pales in comparison to trading Roy, trading Leclair, trading four captains, hiring Tremblay and striking out at the draft every single year. - The Leclair/Desjardins for Recchi deal was not worse than the McCabe/Bertuzzi for Linden deal. - Islanders went through five captains in six years - At the time people were shocked at the Yashin deal because the first round pick was a second overall pick. Everyone knew Spezza would be a first line center. That Yashin deal was a lot like the Kessel for two first round picks deal or the Gomez deal. It was a gamble for a sure thing over not so sure things and it failed miserably. - I'd say Luongo/Jokinen was worse than the Roy deal because in the Roy deal, at the very least there was a little talent in Rucinsky. Parrish flamed out in a few seasons and Kvasha was even faster. And they gave up a top six center and a starting goalie who was Top 10 in the league while he played for it. And did it just because they mistakenly drafted a goalie first overall instead of a forward. Right after burning through three goalies in five years (Potvin, Salo, Osgood). The Roy deal was ugly because Montreal sent a Hall of Fame goalie to a powerhouse team that needed a goalie. The Luongo deal was uglier because we're not talking a 30 year old goalie with six years left in his career. We're talking about a goalie who has hardly started his career with franchise goalie potential. Which Luongo had. Milbury had zero patience with players and it constantly burned him over, and over, and over. The idea he was any form of light in Long Island is a joke. The only light they had was a better drafting record under Milbury than previously, where drafting Brett Lindros in the first round was considered a good decision. Mike Milbury is quite possibly the worst GM in NHL history. Ask anyone around the league. And he did it during Houle's tenure in Montreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Welp! Here goes. Subban hasn't earned his contract. He might earn later, but right now, IMO he doesn't deserve the term or the dollars based on his performance up to now. I hope I am wrong later. I am a big fan, but would have much rather have seen a 7 million 6 year deal. Stamkos, Crosby, Towes, Chara in his prime. That's who are worth that money. To me those are the elite. The guys who consistently perform and are the best. Everybody else ranks below them. Everybody. If Subban wants to earn his pay, he needs to perform at the top of his game every game. That means he has to be better than every single player on the ice. That's a tall order. Not only that, he needs to drop the garbage from his game. Slewfooting, animated gestures at refs when calls aren't made. Diving. All that junk. It needs to go. Man up. You are collecting a big boy paycheck now earn it. Would he have won the Norris in a full season? Doubt it. Did he earn his gold medal? No. He was there. That's about it. Do I think he can win a Norris in the future? Absolutely. I hope he does. Will he be a leader for team Canada? Yes. But what real elite numbers has this guy put up to get that cash? I believe in paying for what you have earned. So far he has proven that his ceiling is very high, and that undoubtedly he has yet to reach it. But his pay is reserved for the best, and I don't believe he is the best yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Welp! Here goes. Subban hasn't earned his contract. He might earn later, but right now, IMO he doesn't deserve the term or the dollars based on his performance up to now. I hope I am wrong later. I am a big fan, but would have much rather have seen a 7 million 6 year deal. Stamkos, Crosby, Towes, Chara in his prime. That's who are worth that money. To me those are the elite. The guys who consistently perform and are the best. Everybody else ranks below them. Everybody. If Subban wants to earn his pay, he needs to perform at the top of his game every game. That means he has to be better than every single player on the ice. That's a tall order. Not only that, he needs to drop the garbage from his game. Slewfooting, animated gestures at refs when calls aren't made. Diving. All that junk. It needs to go. Man up. You are collecting a big boy paycheck now earn it. Would he have won the Norris in a full season? Doubt it. Did he earn his gold medal? No. He was there. That's about it. Do I think he can win a Norris in the future? Absolutely. I hope he does. Will he be a leader for team Canada? Yes. But what real elite numbers has this guy put up to get that cash? I believe in paying for what you have earned. So far he has proven that his ceiling is very high, and that undoubtedly he has yet to reach it. But his pay is reserved for the best, and I don't believe he is the best yet. Where have you been for the past 20 years ? 98% of the league are not paid for what they have earned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Sure he still has some maturing to do, but he is just awesome some games, most games he is very solid and always a dangerous weapon. And it isn't a totally stupid 10-12 year deal, so I would bet you couldn't find a GM who wouldn't offer the same deal or more, if had the caproom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 How much is a Norris winner worth compared to the leaf's pylon Phaneuf? How much is he worth compared to Letang? Who would you rather have now, Subban or chara. Also keep in mind chara's contract was signed around 6 years ago. You've never seen Crosby dive? I'd also say he was a passenger in the finals during the pens cup win. You can't compare his cap hit to Crosby or weber, Suter or anyone else who signed a front loaded deal. Players today make stupid money - hell, friggin Bolland is getting $5.5m to be a third liner. Welp! Here goes. Subban hasn't earned his contract. He might earn later, but right now, IMO he doesn't deserve the term or the dollars based on his performance up to now. I hope I am wrong later. I am a big fan, but would have much rather have seen a 7 million 6 year deal. Stamkos, Crosby, Towes, Chara in his prime. That's who are worth that money. To me those are the elite. The guys who consistently perform and are the best. Everybody else ranks below them. Everybody. If Subban wants to earn his pay, he needs to perform at the top of his game every game. That means he has to be better than every single player on the ice. That's a tall order. Not only that, he needs to drop the garbage from his game. Slewfooting, animated gestures at refs when calls aren't made. Diving. All that junk. It needs to go. Man up. You are collecting a big boy paycheck now earn it. Would he have won the Norris in a full season? Doubt it. Did he earn his gold medal? No. He was there. That's about it. Do I think he can win a Norris in the future? Absolutely. I hope he does. Will he be a leader for team Canada? Yes. But what real elite numbers has this guy put up to get that cash? I believe in paying for what you have earned. So far he has proven that his ceiling is very high, and that undoubtedly he has yet to reach it. But his pay is reserved for the best, and I don't believe he is the best yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Sure he still has some maturing to do, but he is just awesome some games, most games he is very solid and always a dangerous weapon. And it isn't a totally stupid 10-12 year deal, so I would bet you couldn't find a GM who wouldn't offer the same deal or more, if had the caproom. Yeah, exactly. Subban is paid according to his value on the market. Subban on a one year deal is the subject of every third rumor for the next two years. We only got a taste of two days worth of that crap. Luongo x 2. I think Bergevin would have been forced to trade him. Toews is not worth the same as Subban. Toews is worth 1.5 million more. We know this for a definitive fact because of the deal he signed. Crosby on the open market would get an eight year deal at the maximum percentage with a full NTC. Over the last two years, I believe Subban leads all defensemen in points. Remember that the Habs PP was garbage. If the Habs have a top-5 power play next year, he gets 15-20 goals and 60 points easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 I agree with a lot of what is said. I love watching Subban play. He is an exciting guy. I'm just saying that he has not earned it and since he had to play hardball and go for best player in the league money, I want to see the best player in the league out there. I wish players could be cut like in NFL. Go ahead and sign big money, low guarantee. If you don't perform, you're cut. Next year, I expect Subban to be the third best player in the national hockey league. That's what he demanded for pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 By that logic, weber didn't earn his massive contract, because after failing playing hardball with the Preds, he only got his contract because he received an offer sheet from Philly. Subban has earned the money he's getting a hell of a lot more than Bolland or Phaneuf did. Bolland is getting a $1m more than Maxpac, despite the fact he scored 31 fewer goals then Maxpac (he also scored 2 fewer goals and as well as 41 less points than Subban). Bolland also has never even scored 20 goals. This is the reality of the NHL today. If muscle rather pay a star like Subban than a grunt like bolland. I agree with a lot of what is said. I love watching Subban play. He is an exciting guy. I'm just saying that he has not earned it and since he had to play hardball and go for best player in the league money, I want to see the best player in the league out there. I wish players could be cut like in NFL. Go ahead and sign big money, low guarantee. If you don't perform, you're cut. Next year, I expect Subban to be the third best player in the national hockey league. That's what he demanded for pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 In five years this will look like the Bouwmeester deal, without Bouwmeester. Friggin hate that guy. Now there's the defenseman you're thinking of. Never helped his team win a thing, had some high point totals and got locked into a cushy deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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