habs rule Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Indeed. Price is, as everyone knows, the team's real leader - the guy that holds the room in awed respect. But after the Luongo debacle in Van, it won't be a goalie. It won't be Subban either. The old-school people running the team know his worth, but are unlikely to reward the brash kid with the C. And they are probably always on guard against swelling his ego beyond its already-massive proportions. Patches has played by all the 'good boy' NHL rules and was a moral leader on the team by virtue of his stellar two-way play last season, adding a dimension to his game that he didn't need to add. It's his to lose. It will be Patches, Subban an A, and Pleks an A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 It will be Patches, Subban an A, and Pleks an A. I feel like they'll rotate the A's with PK, Markov and Pleks. Patch is the obvious choice for captain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I feel like they'll rotate the A's with PK, Markov and Pleks. Patch is the obvious choice for captain. They have been rotating home and road As since 08-09 so you're likely right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I feel like they'll rotate the A's with PK, Markov and Pleks. Patch is the obvious choice for captain. They might, but Pleks and Markov have no real interest in being captain. So it might be time to solidify the leadership. But as Price said a letter on a sweater means nothing, it is leadership by committee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 The captaincy does not 'mean nothing.' Chelios and Carbo went to war over it, Koivu has talked repeatedly about how it's one of the great honours of his life, Brodeur commented that he didn't think Gionta was 'captain material' (which implies the role comes with definite expectations and criteria), the team's avoidance of choosing one in 2010 and 2014 suggested that making a wrong choice would matter, and Patches has been actively lobbying for it for over a year. Put it all together, and you've got a role that actually does matter rather a lot to a fair number of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Does it matter to people? Is it an honour? Is there a lineage? Can a bad captain bring a locker room down? Can a good captain bring a locker room up? Absolutely. Does the media act like naming a captain can decide whether you will win the Stanley Cup, which is stupid? Absolutely. That's the thing. If Carey Price wore a C on his chest but the A's took care of ceremonial faceoffs and the linesmen and the only reason he wore it was to designate him as the first person to grab the Stanley Cup, would that make any difference to anything in the game? Nope. Not a bit. We've had co-captains and no captains, uni-lingual captains and bilingual captains, Canadians and Americans and Finns. We've had guys like Kovalev and Brisebois wear the C because Koivu was out and the world never ended. For all of the importance the C is supposed to be, nobody remembers who captained the Tampa Bay Lightning without looking it up. Same goes for the 99 Stars and most people who are not Habs fans don't remember Carbonneau was our captain in 93. It's an honour, but it doesn't actually mean anything to the game other than the designated player to talk to the referee. And even then, it was popular in the late 80s to have two guys do it (Calgary had two captains in 89) so even then it wasn't that big of a deal. Hey, that reminds me. Pacioretty and Subban both perfect for it? Just make them co-captains. Bring it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I'd be OK with a co-captaincy but on a rotating annual basis. Thus: Patches wears it alternating years, PK the other years This might sound crazy, but the Carbo-Chelios division was just too horrible to want to repeat. Only one guy should have the 'C' on his jersey at any given moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 The captaincy does not 'mean nothing.' Chelios and Carbo went to war over it, Koivu has talked repeatedly about how it's one of the great honours of his life, Brodeur commented that he didn't think Gionta was 'captain material' (which implies the role comes with definite expectations and criteria), the team's avoidance of choosing one in 2010 and 2014 suggested that making a wrong choice would matter, and Patches has been actively lobbying for it for over a year. Put it all together, and you've got a role that actually does matter rather a lot to a fair number of people. Hey CC I didn't say the captaincy means nothing Price (the real captain) said putting a c on a sweater will not change anything. It is Captain by committee. That is the way they have done it and will continue to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 For all of the importance the C is supposed to be, nobody remembers who captained the Tampa Bay Lightning without looking it up. Same goes for the 99 Stars and most people who are not Habs fans don't remember Carbonneau was our captain in 93. Patting myself on the back, but I knew both. Dave Andreychuk and Derien Hatcher. Thought about Modano but he always had the "A". I aso do believe in the importance of having a designated captain for a myriad of reasons by the way, but to each their own. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurdBurglar Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I played hockey. I can tell you from experience that when the time comes and everyone need to dig deep, I would listen more to a guy that is going to go out there, take some risks and give it their all. More so than a guy who is going to tell me to give it my all and not be that impactful person on this ice. My opinion is PK should wear the C. He is skilled and has that upper notch, and above all, consistant.. Pleks and Markov both are experienced guys who could, but can't for the same reason, they aren't lead by example guys. They are great players but neither seem to have that upper notch that PK has. While the only other real choice is Patches, the problem with a goal scorer is slumps, of which Patches has many. My concern there would be his confidence during those slumps translating into his ability to "command the troops," if you will. This is purely an outsider's opinion as I have never been in that dressing room nor know what exactly are the actions and reactions of the players to these 4 candidates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I played hockey. I can tell you from experience that when the time comes and everyone need to dig deep, I would listen more to a guy that is going to go out there, take some risks and give it their all. More so than a guy who is going to tell me to give it my all and not be that impactful person on this ice. My opinion is PK should wear the C. He is skilled and has that upper notch, and above all, consistant.. Pleks and Markov both are experienced guys who could, but can't for the same reason, they aren't lead by example guys. They are great players but neither seem to have that upper notch that PK has. While the only other real choice is Patches, the problem with a goal scorer is slumps, of which Patches has many. My concern there would be his confidence during those slumps translating into his ability to "command the troops," if you will. This is purely an outsider's opinion as I have never been in that dressing room nor know what exactly are the actions and reactions of the players to these 4 candidates. That is actually a very good point and one of the reasons I thought the 4 associate Captains was a good idea. But Price is the real captain anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 4 'A's and no 'C' is plain goofy. And not sure why Price keeps being mentioned as a reason not to name a 'C', he will never be named one, nor even cross the red-line to debate with ref...so I think we can move on from that item. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 I played hockey. I can tell you from experience that when the time comes and everyone need to dig deep, I would listen more to a guy that is going to go out there, take some risks and give it their all. More so than a guy who is going to tell me to give it my all and not be that impactful person on this ice. My opinion is PK should wear the C. He is skilled and has that upper notch, and above all, consistant.. Pleks and Markov both are experienced guys who could, but can't for the same reason, they aren't lead by example guys. They are great players but neither seem to have that upper notch that PK has. While the only other real choice is Patches, the problem with a goal scorer is slumps, of which Patches has many. My concern there would be his confidence during those slumps translating into his ability to "command the troops," if you will. This is purely an outsider's opinion as I have never been in that dressing room nor know what exactly are the actions and reactions of the players to these 4 candidates. Good points for sure, but I think Patches' evolution into a really strong two-way player means that he contributes even when he isn't scoring. Also - and this is an honest question - just how streaky is Patches, really? My mental image of him is of a pretty consistent offensive threat. I don't think small slumps here and there are any cause not to give a guy the C, especially when you consider that Subban also has dips in his play at times (e.g., the first few weeks of last season). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Pacioretty isn't streaky, he just scores in bunches. When the majority of players score less than 30 goals in an 82 game season, you can't really call anyone who does more "streaky" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 4 'A's and no 'C' is plain goofy. And not sure why Price keeps being mentioned as a reason not to name a 'C', he will never be named one, nor even cross the red-line to debate with ref...so I think we can move on from that item. I know you want a Captain appointed but to say having 4 associate captains is plain goofy, is goofy in and of itself. Having 4 ASSOCIATE Captains merely refects the great leadership this team has. 1 captain goes down and there are 3 others to take his place. Maybe the captain and a couple guys don't see eye to eye, we got 3 other guys to talk it out. Price will never have the C put on his jersey but that doesn't mean he is not the real leader and captain of this team. The rest of the team listen when he talks and are in awe of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 agree to (respectively) disagree, how bout that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 agree to (respectively) disagree, how bout that. I think you meant respectfully but hey I am ok with that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx..CK..xXx Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 I know you want a Captain appointed but to say having 4 associate captains is plain goofy, is goofy in and of itself. Having 4 ASSOCIATE Captains merely refects the great leadership this team has. 1 captain goes down and there are 3 others to take his place. Maybe the captain and a couple guys don't see eye to eye, we got 3 other guys to talk it out. Price will never have the C put on his jersey but that doesn't mean he is not the real leader and captain of this team. The rest of the team listen when he talks and are in awe of him. I honestly am of the opinion that this is a debate that should not even take place. I admit that I am a traditionalist in more than one way but there are captains on each team for a reason. That is the norm because it demonstrates that a team has a clear leader who they will follow through thick and thin. Tied in with the fact that being named captain can be a great honor, historically, great captains have risen to the occasion of having been given this great honor and have achieved greater things than they even knew possible, as captains. Quite often, while they certainly deserved to be named captain in the first place, they only raise to this stature after being named captain. Let's see if Pacioretty or Subban have that extra level of greatness within them that we have yet to witness. It comes with the job description. It may sound silly, but I have personally been named captain only once in my hockey career and it did make me want to commit myself that much more to the team. It changes your perspective on things and I think it is important for any team to have that player. It can be said that 4 associate captains demonstrates great leadership by committee but on the other side of the coin, it demonstrates indecisiveness. Simple as that. From your posts, it's clear that you agree that the team actually does have a captain in Price. The fact that he can't be captain due to his position leads you to believe that we have no one else who is captain material. Say it's not an issue, but I think that would definitely be one. Give the "C" to Pacioretty and no one should complain; he's clearly captain material. He's broken his neck for this team for crying out loud. If we trade Pacioretty for Ladd or Benn (left winger captains) do we all of a sudden now have a leader? Name Pacioretty captain, have Subban, Markov and Plek as alternates. Price in the reigns and you still have a great leadership core and they'll all be listened to when they speak. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 PK's our best skater, but he doesn't seem like captain material. And just from general observations of the team and watching 24CH, the other players don't see him as such either. That slash in game 1 that got him suspended is not the type of thing you want your best player doing, let alone the guy who is our supposed leader. Pacioretty is a better option, and things like his understated recovery from the Chara incident, as well as his vastly improved 2-way game add weight to his candidacy. He's the closest thing we have to a star forward. I'd be surprised if anyone else was chosen. Gallagher has the most heart, but he's younger and gets pummelled every night. Pleks and Markov don't want it. The real question is how are Max's French lessons going. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 it's clear that you agree that the team actually does have a captain in Price. The fact that he can't be captain due to his position leads you to believe that we have no one else who is captain material. Say it's not an issue, but I think that would definitely be one. Give the "C" to Pacioretty and no one should complain; he's clearly captain material. He's broken his neck for this team for crying out loud. If we trade Pacioretty for Ladd or Benn (left winger captains) do we all of a sudden now have a leader? Name Pacioretty captain, have Subban, Markov and Plek as alternates. Price in the reigns and you still have a great leadership core and they'll all be listened to when they speak. I respect your opinion and you are definitley entitled to voice it , but please don't put words in my mouth, absolutely nowhere did I ever say that we have no one who is captain material. I have said all along that all 4 of them make excellent captains. However whether he wears the C or not Carey is the leader on this team. I am perfectly fine with Patches as Captain. I thought the 4 associate captains worked very well. And if you have read my posts you know why and I don't have to repeat myself. Besides it is summertime, there is nothing to talk about and if no one takes a different view on a topic like this, this thread would be 5 comments long. Cheers my friend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 It's not the C that will can potentially cause dissension. MaxPac deserves the C. I have no problems with that. My problem is, if MaxPac gets the C, they've gotta take an A away from one of Markov, Pleks, or Subban. It's not that someone gets promoted, it's that someone gets a demotion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilz Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 So um. No way around this and I apologize for any offenses but.. I have an overwhelming sensation that if Subban was white there wouldn't be any need for discussion. Not this thread in particular. Just a lot of underlining conditioning at work. Turns my stomach. I encountered it a few times in the last week or so. Racists in denial are an ugly shade of ignorance. Again, not aimed at anyone here. Just my 2 cents. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 So um. No way around this and I apologize for any offenses but.. I have an overwhelming sensation that if Subban was white there wouldn't be any need for discussion. Not this thread in particular. Just a lot of underlining conditioning at work. Turns my stomach. I encountered it a few times in the last week or so. Racists in denial are an ugly shade of ignorance. Again, not aimed at anyone here. Just my 2 cents. Cat, meet pigeons. A very interesting thought. I've been adamant all along that subliminal racism has informed the whole discourse around Subban, so it would be hypocritical of me to deny that it might be lurking in the discourse around 'Subban as C' as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 For sure race is a factor is how PK is viewed, and this includes his teammates. But the main issue at play in this decision is not why he is or isn't viewed as a captain by the other players in the room, but rather if he is. It could be for bullsh!t reasons - and I maintain that there are legitimate reasons why he's not captain material at this point - but you make the call based on the facts on the ground, rather than a radical choice that would get people grumbling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 I wondered how long before someone played the race card. I really don't see it. This hockey team is very close, PK is too good a guy to harbour racist thoughts about. I am not saying it isn't possible but I sure as hell don't want to believe it. the only racism around this team is linguistic. But enough about that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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