xXx..CK..xXx Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 It's not the C that will can potentially cause dissension. MaxPac deserves the C. I have no problems with that. My problem is, if MaxPac gets the C, they've gotta take an A away from one of Markov, Pleks, or Subban. It's not that someone gets promoted, it's that someone gets a demotion. Alternate all three of them. Habs Rule, what I meant to infer is that it seemed as though you were saying that Price is the leader of the team so people know who the real captain is anyway regardless of who wears the "C". I jumped to the conclusion and it's a bit of a stretch I admit, and I perhaps should have worded my response differently. But what I am trying to argue is that it would be good to turn the page and not have the team lean on Price so much as their leader. I'm completely fine with having our goalie be our best player but I don't want the team to have to rely on him over and over again to win games. Whether it be physically, or mentally. Call it a placebo effect, but it's time to make a player our captain and have the team lean on him. Let him step up to the plate. If some fans think Carey is the true "C" and our only chance, maybe the players think this way as well without an appointed captain. Trouble is, Pacioretty already was the one who was leading us on offence last year. Maybe he has something greater in him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Alternate all three of them. Habs Rule, what I meant to infer is that it seemed as though you were saying that Price is the leader of the team so people know who the real captain is anyway regardless of who wears the "C". I jumped to the conclusion and it's a bit of a stretch I admit, and I perhaps should have worded my response differently. But what I am trying to argue is that it would be good to turn the page and not have the team lean on Price so much as their leader. I'm completely fine with having our goalie be our best player but I don't want the team to have to rely on him over and over again to win games. Whether it be physically, or mentally. Call it a placebo effect, but it's time to make a player our captain and have the team lean on him. Let him step up to the plate. If some fans think Carey is the true "C" and our only chance, maybe the players think this way as well without an appointed captain. Trouble is, Pacioretty already was the one who was leading us on offence last year. Maybe he has something greater in him. I agree that we shouldn't need Price to be in the position where if he lets in 1 goal we lose. That is the way it was last year. We need more offence, I don't think we are going to get much more out of Patches, but more would be nice. We need some other guys to step it up and pot some goals to take the pressure of of Carey. I think Patches would make a fine captain, myself I lean towards Subban just because like Gallagher he really hates to lose. At the end of the game when you need some offence he is a guy who will step up his game and go all out to get that tieing or winning goal. It does not always work out and sometimes he gets himself in trouble, but damn he does go for it. Price Patches and Subban are the leaders on this team long term, Markov has very little time left, and Pleks may be gone this year. That is a pretty good leadership group imho. I was happy with the associate captain scenario but it is not going to break my heart for Patches or Subban to wear the C. More than likely Patches. Those 3 will set the tone in the dessing room, and that is a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Qote from HIO, pretty much sums it up. “I’ve always thought that the C is kind of ceremonial. You don’t need a C to lead a team,” goaltender Carey Price said Thursday. Price is absolutely right, and he should know; he very much is part of the Canadiens leadership group. The truth is, the players on a team know who the leaders are. A consonant or a vowel stitched on the upper left of a jersey will not command respect in the dressing room. Management does not legislate leadership; it is very largely by example that a player leads, the captain’s C a bit of an exclamation mark for fans and the marketing department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nihilz Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Cat, meet pigeons. A very interesting thought. I've been adamant all along that subliminal racism has informed the whole discourse around Subban, so it would be hypocritical of me to deny that it might be lurking in the discourse around 'Subban as C' as well. Exactly. Any negative aspect to reflect that congested angst. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Bah, summer has been too long for some of you guys apparently. Max for the C is the best move, he is a great leader and team spokesman. The only reason Subban won't be captain is his sometimes bad relationship with the refs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 For sure race is a factor is how PK is viewed, and this includes his teammates. But the main issue at play in this decision is not why he is or isn't viewed as a captain by the other players in the room, but rather if he is. It could be for bullsh!t reasons - and I maintain that there are legitimate reasons why he's not captain material at this point - but you make the call based on the facts on the ground, rather than a radical choice that would get people grumbling. I tend to agree with this, at first blush. But when I consider the implications, they're troubling. It's exactly the same logic that a business owner would use to justify not hiring black people, or relegating them to the back of the shop, if he has racist customers who don't want to interact with black people. In the end, the ONLY acceptable rationale for not giving PK the C would have to centre on the 'legitimate reasons' you refer to. Otherwise, the organization is implicated in reproducing racist 'logic' just as much as the hypothetical business owner in question - and that's fundamentally unacceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 If the team had no other leaders it's one thing. Pacioretty makes a great argument to be captain. Markov has been dubbed The General, as if he's higher than a mere captain. Plekanec wore the C for the Czech Republic. If none of these guys were around, similar to when Koivu got the C, and we skipped on Subban? Now you have a racially motivated issue. Everyone knows Subban is 1-2 with Pacioretty for who gets the C. If he loses out, it's because the organization preferred Pacioretty, not the organization had anything against Subban. I say this as someone who would love to see Subban with the C, far more than Pacioretty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 I tend to agree with this, at first blush. But when I consider the implications, they're troubling. It's exactly the same logic that a business owner would use to justify not hiring black people, or relegating them to the back of the shop, if he has racist customers who don't want to interact with black people. In the end, the ONLY acceptable rationale for not giving PK the C would have to centre on the 'legitimate reasons' you refer to. Otherwise, the organization is implicated in reproducing racist 'logic' just as much as the hypothetical business owner in question - and that's fundamentally unacceptable. I believe PK would be seen as having more 'captain cache' if he were white, but he would still have those reasons against him - his volatility, questionable decision making, history of losing his cool, etc. I see him sort of like Ovechkin - clearly the best skater on the team, but not really a strong captain. Race is coming into play here (as it does most of the time), but it's not really a prime opportunity to make a progressive move to buck the trend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 It's always a prime move. Fact is, if you believed Montreal had a chance to win the Cup, and then we named Subban captain and now you have doubts? There's nothing wrong with Subban and everything wrong with you. Of course, this is mountains out of molehills. Bergevin and Therrien could decide something out of the blue like Torrey Mitchell as captain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 It's always a prime move. Fact is, if you believed Montreal had a chance to win the Cup, and then we named Subban captain and now you have doubts? There's nothing wrong with Subban and everything wrong with you. Of course, this is mountains out of molehills. Bergevin and Therrien could decide something out of the blue like Torrey Mitchell as captain. Or DD? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 Why not Subban, not skin colour, but simply look at slash on Stone as one example. Why not Pacioretty, any time smurfs Plekanec, Gallagher or DD were getting roughed up, where is the 6'2" 210lber but skating back to bench. Cant recall him standing up to/for anyone yet and no he dosent need to toss any punches but simply do the Hal Gill, get in there and tie up someone. But other than that I cant see any reason why not. If they already plan on resigning Plekanec he may still be a good option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Why not Subban, not skin colour, but simply look at slash on Stone as one example. Why not Pacioretty, any time smurfs Plekanec, Gallagher or DD were getting roughed up, where is the 6'2" 210lber but skating back to bench. Cant recall him standing up to/for anyone yet and no he dosent need to toss any punches but simply do the Hal Gill, get in there and tie up someone. But other than that I cant see any reason why not. If they already plan on resigning Plekanec he may still be a good option. I think you hit the nose on the head of how looking for perfection in a captain is ridiculous. Wayne Gretzky slashed Doug Gilmour and nobody is going to say he is a poor choice to wear the C. Guys like Bobby Clarke and Eric Lindros have been captains. Scott Stevens elbows more people in the head than anyone in NHL history and he'll go down as the greatest captain in New Jersey Devils history. We shouldn't be looking for perfection. We should just be looking for who can talk to referees without losing their cool and be a good public speaker. Subban and Pacioretty both fit the bill (before someone talks about Subban's slewfoots and dives, Pacioretty got suspended for a head shot only a couple months after returning from the Chara incident. It left a bad taste in the league's mouth) and either would make a good captain. And as I've pointed out before, whomever we give the C to isn't the true leader of the team. That's Carey Price. So in the end, it's just for PR and talking to referees. Flip a coin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 I think the team will go Pacioretty.My choice would be Subban though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 So when is this thing likely to happen? Maybe just prior to opening night Bergevin will sit down with RDS and make 'the announcement'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Management is probably waiting for Max to be back on the ice. Then they'll name him captain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 I think Pacioretty is the safe choice and perhaps the right one, as we don't know the intricacies inside the locker room or how management wants this team perceived. However, I do believe if Subban was given the C, he would handle himself in whatever manner is required. So far all this kid has done is prove people wrong and has done exactly what the team has asked of him. I have no doubt he would make a great captain. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 I think Pacioretty is the safe choice and perhaps the right one, as we don't know the intricacies inside the locker room or how management wants this team perceived. However, I do believe if Subban was given the C, he would handle himself in whatever manner is required. So far all this kid has done is prove people wrong and has done exactly what the team has asked of him. I have no doubt he would make a great captain. Yep to all that, well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDriveFor25 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Pacs is a safe choice, but if I'm picking then it goes to Gallagher. It's amazing to me how many Canadiens players pick him as "Heart" when they're building their ultimate player. He gives it everything, every shift. What more can you ask for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Pacs is a safe choice, but if I'm picking then it goes to Gallagher. It's amazing to me how many Canadiens players pick him as "Heart" when they're building their ultimate player. He gives it everything, every shift. What more can you ask for? Yeah he does but he is a little too young and the refs hate him not a good thing for a captain. I think Pacioretty is the safe choice and perhaps the right one, as we don't know the intricacies inside the locker room or how management wants this team perceived. However, I do believe if Subban was given the C, he would handle himself in whatever manner is required. So far all this kid has done is prove people wrong and has done exactly what the team has asked of him. I have no doubt he would make a great captain. I have to agree with you cause your right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I hate to agree with you cause your right. Fixed your post Here's to a new season and hopefully getting along.....for the most part! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Mid-Sept...season is getting close. Cant see many getting too upset when any of 14, 67, 76 or 79 get named 'C'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Mid-Sept...season is getting close. Cant see many getting too upset when any of 14, 67, 76 or 79 get named 'C'. Hey all are good choices, some dont want it . namely 14 and 79. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Gallagher might be my favourite Hab but I'm tired of small, scrappy captains with heart. Stop giving the C to Scotty Smalls and give it to Benny The Jet Rodriguez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Size of heart should definitely be a factor, height not so much. But Gallagher is a fan favourite and am sure management would like to clone his consistent effort. But he just seems to young yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Has anyone else speculated that the Subban donation could be related to the Captaincy announcement? I am quite aware of his charitable work throughout the years, as I actually met P.K at a fundraiser for special olympics a few years ago, but to make the biggest donation by a sports figure in Canadian history is quite a big deal. One could assume he is posturing for the captaincy, but I don't believe that to be the case. My thoughts are that perhaps he has already been told he is the Captain and this was his thank you/commitment to the city, fans and the organization. And also maybe a way for people that were on the fence about him before to embrace him for the great man and player he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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