hab29RETIRED Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 So you are trying to argue that Eller was the problem with the PP?? DD was still getting more time on the PP than Eller and it still sucked. I think the PP has improved more because the DD are actually all shooting now and moving the puck around, rather than markov and Subban passing back and forth to each other. Best post I've seen on the topic... honestly, I'd like to put this up as a guest article on my site. Yes, we should go with the best options... Eller's PP time comes almost entirely in the first five games, when our PP produced nothing... h'e clearly not the best option. Our PP has been red hot the last seven... so what is this criticism of who is/isn't on the PP... it makes no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Now that is revisionist history. DD had taken Ellerslie place while the PP still sucked. The PP improved from game 6 or 7 onward. DD had already taken Ellerslie spot by game 3. Eller was getting spot duty in the PP, DD was usually out in the first wave with galchenyuk. DD isn't centring his line on the PP, nor is he on the first pp unit.... He's not in the same role he was in last year even on the PP. That said the PP is working... and it started working when Eller was taken off and DD was put as Chucky's LW on the second unit. So DD getting more PP time than Eller isn't the coach playing favorites... its the coach playing the results right now. Lets stop this myth that Therrien hates Eller based on this PP time. As for the last two years stuff, its disingenious to only rely on goals to say Eller outproduces DD at ES.... include assists and DD blows him out of the water, which is not surprising since he's a far better playmaker. Why is it wrong to say DD is the better offensive player, and Eller is the better defensive player and have the coach use them in such situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Now that is revisionist history. DD had taken Ellerslie place while the PP still sucked. The PP improved from game 6 or 7 onward. DD had already taken Ellerslie spot by game 3. Eller was getting spot duty in the PP, DD was usually out in the first wave with galchenyuk. Agree with that, and have stated just that. This aint exactly a new subject. ha! Will add both are third line players. Tongue in cheek, it took MT three years to admit DD is not a top six center. Took him about an hour on Lars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 It was following game 3... when the Habs had gone 1 for the first whatever on the PP (with DD scoring that 1 goal) that DD surpassed Eller in PP time per game. Still things were about even for the next couple games, then DD really started getting more of the PP time recently. But Here is the bottom line.In 9:00 of PP time, Lars Eller has been on the ice for 0 Habs goals, 1 short handed goal against, and has 1 shot on net.In 20:00 of PP time.... DD has 2 points, has been on the ice for 3 Habs goals... 0 short handed goals against.Seems pretty clear why DD is getting more PP time than Eller this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habs30/31 Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 It was following game 3... when the Habs had gone 1 for the first whatever on the PP (with DD scoring that 1 goal) that DD surpassed Eller in PP time per game. Still things were about even for the next couple games, then DD really started getting more of the PP time recently. But Here is the bottom line. In 9:00 of PP time, Lars Eller has been on the ice for 0 Habs goals, 1 short handed goal against, and has 1 shot on net. In 20:00 of PP time.... DD has 2 points, has been on the ice for 3 Habs goals... 0 short handed goals against. Seems pretty clear why DD is getting more PP time than Eller this season. lol ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Agree with that, and have stated just that. This aint exactly a new subject. ha! Will add both are third line players. Tongue in cheek, it took MT three years to admit DD is not a top six center. Took him about an hour on Lars. And this team does not have 6... top 6 players... so one of those 3rd liners has to get the PP time. I'm glad the one who is the better offensive player is getting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 DD is a pretty good powerplay specialist. I don't know why anyone would attempt to dispute that. But once again, an Eller discussion turns into a Desharnais discussion. They certainly don't want to compare Eller to DSP, Mitchell or Byron, who get fourth line minutes and excel offensively and defensively with them. Nope, not happening. Has to compare him to the guy he has only once in his entire career had comparable scoring numbers to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Think about it for 1 second... What is more important... The Habs PP being productive... or giving more PP time to a player who managed 0 goals, 0 assists, a -1, and only 1 shot on goal in over 9 minutes of PP time.If you still think Therrien is wrong to not put Eller on the PP after that, I have to question if you are a fan of the Montreal Canadiens, or if you are a fan of Lars Eller only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Again. Eller was getting time at the START of the season, when the WHOLE FRIGGIN team looked like the california golden seals on the PP and world the 77 canadiens 5 on 5. Moving DD in Ellers plays is NOT what caused the turn around. Biggest shift came from improvement in how the PP was being managed on the point. Next you'll be saying Weisse on the PP helped improve the PP, because PP wasn't producing with Semin, but it is with Weisse. It was following game 3... when the Habs had gone 1 for the first whatever on the PP (with DD scoring that 1 goal) that DD surpassed Eller in PP time per game. Still things were about even for the next couple games, then DD really started getting more of the PP time recently. But Here is the bottom line. In 9:00 of PP time, Lars Eller has been on the ice for 0 Habs goals, 1 short handed goal against, and has 1 shot on net. In 20:00 of PP time.... DD has 2 points, has been on the ice for 3 Habs goals... 0 short handed goals against. Seems pretty clear why DD is getting more PP time than Eller this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Loving Gallagher. He was our best forward in the play off last year. And although Max is the best pure scorer on the team. Gallagher is the the best hockey player of all the forwards. Fifth round pick. You are probably the only person on planet earth who believes Gallagher is better then patches.... Even minus the goals.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 DD is a pretty good powerplay specialist. I don't know why anyone would attempt to dispute that. But once again, an Eller discussion turns into a Desharnais discussion. They certainly don't want to compare Eller to DSP, Mitchell or Byron, who get fourth line minutes and excel offensively and defensively with them. Nope, not happening. Has to compare him to the guy he has only once in his entire career had comparable scoring numbers to. If DD is such a great PP specialist, why did the PP suck last year, when he was getting among the most time from the forwards?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I'd say Desharnais does a much better job getting the puck to the other players on the ice during a powerplay. Eller just runs around the boards. That said, I'd rather Flash and Chuck for the PP2. As for last year, DD proved he wasn't a PP1 guy. Doesn't mean he can't be a PP2 guy. Eller has yet to prove he's anything more than a third line forward. He's turning into Galchenyuk's anchor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Why does last year matter Bottom line... Eller is playing with Galchenyuk NOW He is not producing NOW He is not producing at Even strength NOW He is not producing on the Powerplay NOW He was benched for a period YesterdaySomeone explain the problem and why what the PP looked like last year, or any of that matters??? He's a guy who isn't getting it done lately and the coach sent him a message, thats it.... the cult of eller that believes he can do no wrong, and no coach should ever bench him is annoying. He's the only guy on the team who the coach can't ever discipline or there is an uproar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Think about it for 1 second... What is more important... The Habs PP being productive... or giving more PP time to a player who managed 0 goals, 0 assists, a -1, and only 1 shot on goal in over 9 minutes of PP time. If you still think Therrien is wrong to not put Eller on the PP after that, I have to question if you are a fan of the Montreal Canadiens, or if you are a fan of Lars Eller only. I want the habs to be better at the end of the year, not the start of the year. That means giving guys a longer look now - that means Semin and Eller, who have not had a prolonged look in offensive positons. We need to see if Eller and Semin can be productive on the PP after a prolonged look, or if we need to make other moves. We already have seen what DD can do in the Playoffs - squat. We already have seen him on the PP last year and it sucked. A PP with DD and Weisse is not the making of a deep playoff team. We need to have a prolonged look at Eller and Semin and some of our kids in January to decide if we need to move assets before the trade deadline. Now is the time to be playing them. Same thing with the Defense. Now is also the time to be playing Tinordi and Pateryn. We all should know that we aren't going on a deep playoff run with Emelin. I'd rather give Tinrodi and Emelin a look now and live with some of their mistakes now. Rather than have them sit around and than not have them in game shape when it counts (like last year). MT made the same friggin mistake last year, riding his favourites all year long. You may be happy with regular season success like leaf fans, but I want us to go far in the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I've had enough of a prolonged look at Eller... 5 years... to know he is not a consistent offensive producer. As for Weise being on the Powerplay... He is not a PP regular through our first 12 games... he's not been a PP regular all year... He got a little time last night, a night when he was one of the Habs best forwards, had 7 shots on goal and 3 goals..... Hmmm.... lets complain about coaching cause a coach rewards a forward who is having a great game with a little extra powerplay time in that game.... Give me a break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Why does last year matter Bottom line... Eller is playing with Galchenyuk NOW He is not producing NOW He is not producing at Even strength NOW He is not producing on the Powerplay NOW He was benched for a period Yesterday Someone explain the problem and why what the PP looked like last year, or any of that matters??? He's a guy who isn't getting it done lately and the coach sent him a message, thats it.... the cult of eller that believes he can do no wrong, and no coach should ever bench him is annoying. He's the only guy on the team who the coach can't ever discipline or there is an uproar. He made a mistake and was benhed. DD and Emelin cost us the game and they don't miss a shift. And i'm sick of this cult of Eller crap. I see him as a useful player, who has never really been given a real chance. I see DD, Emelin, Gilbert, Weisse get free passes for 2 years.What are you - the cult of Emelin, DD, Gilbert and Weisse?? I've had enough of a prolonged look at Eller... 5 years... to know he is not a consistent offensive producer.When did he EVER have a prolonged look where he started in the offensive zone??? DD almost always starts in the offensive zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 So all of those shifts with Galchenyuk were in the defensive zone? Whoa, I guess Therrien is ruining everyone! Eller has been a second line winger all season. I guess none of those have been offensive starts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I've had enough of a prolonged look at Eller... 5 years... to know he is not a consistent offensive producer. As for Weise being on the Powerplay... He is not a PP regular through our first 12 games... he's not been a PP regular all year... He got a little time last night, a night when he was one of the Habs best forwards, had 7 shots on goal and 3 goals..... Hmmm.... lets complain about coaching cause a coach rewards a forward who is having a great game with a little extra powerplay time in that game.... Give me a break. Weisse was also on the PP in the Edmonton game and sucked. so hmm, lets complain about him for one of the most pathetic losses we have had in a while.So all of those shifts with Galchenyuk were in the defensive zone? Whoa, I guess Therrien is ruining everyone! He was brrought up the last 5 years. Until this year, Eller generally started in the defensive zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 He made a mistake and was benhed. DD and Emelin cost us the game and they don't miss a shift. And i'm sick of this cult of Eller crap. I see him as a useful player, who has never really been given a real chance. I see DD, Emelin, Gilbert, Weisse get free passes for 2 years. What are you - the cult of Emelin, DD, Gilbert and Weisse?? When did he EVER have a prolonged look where he started in the offensive zone??? DD almost always starts in the offensive zone. The offensive zone and wingers excuse.... please... Mitchell gets worse zone starts,, worse wingers, less time on the ice, and is outproducing Eller who has played with Galchenyuk and Semin and got HUGE offensive zone star preference this season. The excuses have to stop. At some point, score some ######ing points and earn your way up the lineup. Quit making excuses. So all of those shifts with Galchenyuk were in the defensive zone? Whoa, I guess Therrien is ruining everyone! Eller has been a second line winger all season. I guess none of those have been offensive starts? There offensive zone start percentage is near identical to DDs line.... the second and third lines have gotten huge Ozone start advantages... the first and fourth have been dzone heavy. Never let actual facts get in the way of excuses about why Eller isn't playing well though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 Weisse was also on the PP in the Edmonton game and sucked. so hmm, lets complain about him for one of the most pathetic losses we have had in a while. Yes, the PP in Edmonton... A PP that went 1/2 on the night for 50% efficiency is the reason we lost that game.Dale Weise was used on the PP vs Edmonton, we lost vs Edmonton, clearly using him on the PP was the reason we blew a three goal lead. This logic is outstanding! He was brrought up the last 5 years. Until this year, Eller generally started in the defensive zone. So your argument is that In 5 years he's never had the opportunity to prove he could be a CONSISTENT offensive producer? Sorry, thats false.... Over the years he's been given many chances to progress above the third line role and while he'll get on a streak from time to time, ultimately he's failed to be productive consistently.After 5 years.... He is what he is.... a good third liner.... We need to accept that, and see if we can find Chuck some real wingers before the playoffs come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I believe the bottom line for all of Therrien's thinking on this matter is simply the body of work from both players since the start of the season determined who had the longer leash. DD may have cost a winning goal on a soft play in Edmonton, but has been nothing short of being a big reason why our 3rd line has pretty much out-produced any 3rd line out there on a nightly basis the rest of the time. Meanwhile Eller has been struggling to produce regularly on a second line, centered by our most talented center, and produced half of his season total in 1 game to boot. Leaving much to be desired in at least 7 of his games played. yes the guy backchecks, he is useful, is strong on the puck, but the bottom line now and after 3 years of waiting, is simply that he struggles to produce numbers, and he is streaky as all hell offensively. Therrien isn't going to be dropping the hammer on a guy who has provided MORE than he expected from his spot in the roster after one bad play, he is dropping the hammer on a guy who hasn't given him what he has expected 80% of the season, that isn't favoring, that is logical coaching. Eller isn't in a checking role anymore, he wanted the chance to play an offensive role and move up the roster, he has been given that and still failed to produce, being good without the puck and along the boards isn't good enough anymore. And before we can expect Therrien to dish out the chocolate chip cookies to the guy and give him more PP time so he can produce more, he needs to do more with the 5 on 5 time he has with his line. That line should be better than it is, and if not for Chucky somehow keeping pace with the others and playing very well despite having 2 unproductive slugs on each side at the moment, that line would look even worse than it has. Maybe the next step is not to wonder if Eller is being mistreated by Therrien, but to wonder if Eller has the necessary offensive hockey instincts to warrant being a second line player, maybe we are expecting 55 points from a guy who is suited to be a 35 point 3rd liner. I've always been a supporter of Eller, and i'm not suggesting he is done, that we trade him, or move him off the line even because I still see him as the best option there currently. But for the love of Zeus can we all stop saying its either Therrien hate or Eller love, lets look at the numbers, look at comparables, expectations, and make an objective analysis of the situation, this post is mine. Simply, when Eller moved to his current spot before the season, I was excited, I thought he was going to open the flood gates in his new role, and I am surprised and a little disappointed that he has not, regardless of special teams, and all the banter that comes with that. Watching him play with Galchenyuk, and not able to produce and even at times look underwhelming out there has been surprising to me, watching Semin look the same as he did an Carolina has not, my expectations for both were very different, and so far one has met those expectations while the other has not, and that happened not in the order that i hoped. well said. i completely agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted November 1, 2015 Author Share Posted November 1, 2015 A couple of random points that aren't Eller vs Desharnais: - Who'd have thought the supporting cast (no top four D, no top six forwards) would score six goals in a single game? That happened yesterday and it was in a game where Price sat as well. We talk about the secondary players needing to win games here and there, this was one of those games. - Since my Centre Ice wasn't carrying the Montreal feed last night, I wound up with the Calgary feed with Rick Ball and Kelly Hrudey. How is this duo not one of the national crews for Sportsnet? After getting saddled with having to listen to the Vancouver crew earlier this week, this was a difference of night and day in terms of game calling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 What was up with centre ice yesterday. I got the local Calgary feed, but considering how much centre ice costs, I would expect to be able get the Montreal feed. A couple of random points that aren't Eller vs Desharnais: - Who'd have thought the supporting cast (no top four D, no top six forwards) would score six goals in a single game? That happened yesterday and it was in a game where Price sat as well. We talk about the secondary players needing to win games here and there, this was one of those games. - Since my Centre Ice wasn't carrying the Montreal feed last night, I wound up with the Calgary feed with Rick Ball and Kelly Hrudey. How is this duo not one of the national crews for Sportsnet? After getting saddled with having to listen to the Vancouver crew earlier this week, this was a difference of night and day in terms of game calling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toronthab Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Speaking of Eller. I remember my breakout year. I hate pimples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 So your argument is that In 5 years he's never had the opportunity to prove he could be a CONSISTENT offensive producer? Sorry, thats false.... Over the years he's been given many chances to progress above the third line role and while he'll get on a streak from time to time, ultimately he's failed to be productive consistently. After 5 years.... He is what he is.... a good third liner.... We need to accept that, and see if we can find Chuck some real wingers before the playoffs come. Hells yeah! Great post Link as well. Maybe Semin does deserve at least a chance to help Chucky by playing with a skilled player? Since are short on top 6 skill level players maybe? Accept the fact that Eller is what he is, and use him accordingly, coach decides, and he knows better than all of us here...really. Can't blame Therrien for using the more gifted playmaker, the more gifted offensively, Deharnais on the PP, and use Eller in the role he himself has been decent at, a 3rd line playr that is as someone said, strong on the puck, and fairly good defensively, Let's call 'er a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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