Guest Stogey24 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 All you critics run on assumptions and conjecture, and know sweet FA about the situation in the room that he and Molson sit and discuss the direction of the franchise.I say he has done the smartest thing in light of Price's absence and a non solid return date, prepare for next year and beyond.The team has some great young pieces, and this year, in my opinion, is an anomaly in this era of the Montreal Canadiens.After all, if Price had of played all season, we would be at the top and not the bottom, so why in the world would he throw all the cards in the air, only to have to deal with the fall out from trying to save a certainly sinking ship?How many GM's do you guys talk to? How do you know in the least what these "forwards or offensive" help costs in terms of trading?Conjecture and assumptions mean nothing in fact.That's what I thought... 0Habs have some good prospects that can surely play a role in the coming years, on the cheap, so we can actually afford to sign the UFA we need, or make that deadline deal to go for a cup, but there was no way in hell that would be this year. Price goes down again next year. Then what? Our g.m sits on his hands again and we wait for Carey to get healthy. Wow, what a game plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Then he will know for sure he needs another goaltender? Who said he would sit on his hands next year? You have a crystal ball I guess, and you are basing a strategy on a what if? Yep, you are right, blow the team up and try to make the playoffs now then, with Reimer in nets. Sounds good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Oh sorry, I must be a screw up and just swallow that. If I want your advice or opinion on what I allow to be said to me, I'll ask. I'm not negative or trouble here, and I won't stand to be insulted by anyone because they act like an asshole on every subject. HMM I would love to know how you got that out of what I posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 My point was, oh never mind... I edited it, you should too, unless of course you are entertained... I'm done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Save percentage is not the be all, end all stat to judge a goalie's performance. Talbot is not THAT good of a goalie. What is his save percentage this year? Talbot had a high save percentage because the NYR's defence is not a porous as ours. We have a supposedly defensive coach, yet our team defence sucks. That is a is a coaching issue. Our PP sucks, that is a coaching issue. Our game plan has not worked, yet we press on with the same style. That is a coaching issue. The big difference between the Rangers and the habs is not that Talbot is the next superstar goalie and Condon is an AHL'er. The difference is that vignuelt had his team ready to adjust for the loss of Lundquist. While MT has us playing loosey goosey hockey like Price will still bail us out from the stands. Hell, even Boudreau adjusted his team's approach and style, MT did nothing. MB also should have upgraded our centre right wing positions over the summer. The past two years of DD's playoff performance should have been a good enough signal that DD is not a viable option and that a weisse should not be on the top 2 lines. We need to change the coach and the mix next year. Time to leave Mt alone in the foxhole and throw in a grenade for good measure! MB has not made a single major mistake. His biggest positive error was trading Kassian. The critique, then, has to be that he has been too passive. That's fair, but let's remember that he's been dealing from a position of relative strength: a team that was a guaranteed playoff squad and knocking on the door to get out of the conference. Under those circumstances, I had no real problem with him playing it cool, waiting for the right opportunity before going all in, rather than compromise the future on a swing-for-the-fences play. And please don't go on about Seguin or Spezza; neither player was ever going to come to us from those rival organizations, and we may not have had the assets to dangle in a trade anyway. In terms of his inaction regarding the slump, I actually put that to his credit. As Commandant says, he did not compromise the future for short-term, desperate fixes, accurately recognizing that no team is going to win with goaltending that has a save percentage of .900. That's what Habs29's comparison with the Rangers last year overlooks. Talbot had a save % of .931. That's a massive difference. The frothing negativity about MB is rooted in anger at this disastrous season more than rational analysis. The NEXT 12 months will be what really determines whether Grizzly Adams is a worthy GM or not. This is the make or break period: from this trade deadline to next season's. Calling for his head at this juncture is ridiculously premature. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 My point was, oh never mind... I edited it, you should too, unless of course you are entertained... I'm done. Sometimes I have no idea what you are talking about. You edited it? To what? So you could call me an asshole? All I said was we don't need the personal attacks. Well this is a hopeless cause, I promise you I will never respond to any of your future posts. I urge everyone to do the same. Save percentage is not the be all, end all states to judge a goalie's performance. Talbot is not THAT good of a goalie. What is his save percentage this year? Talbot had a high save percentage because the NYR's defence is not a porous as ours. We have a supposedly defensive coach, yet our team defence sucks. That is a is a coaching issue. Our PP sucks, that is a coaching issue. Our game plan has not worked, yet we press on with the same style. That is a coaching issue. The big difference between the Rangers and the habs is not that Talbot is the next superstar goalie and Condon is an AHL ERM. The difference is that vignuelt had his team ready to adjust for the loss of Lundquist. While MT has u playing loosey goosey hockey like Price will still bailey's out from the stands. Hell, even Boudreau adjusted his team's approach and style, MT did nothing. MB also should have upgraded our centre right wing positions over the summer. The past two years of DD's playoff performance should have been a good enough signal that DD is not a viable option. We need to change the coach and the mix next year. Time to leave Mt alone in the foxhole and through in a grenade for good measure! Pretty much right on the nose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Then he will know for sure he needs another goaltender?Who said he would sit on his hands next year?You have a crystal ball I guess, and you are basing a strategy on a what if?Yep, you are right, blow the team up and try to make the playoffs now then, with Reimer in nets.Sounds good.Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Cam Talbot had a rough October and half of November as he adjusted to a new team. Since December he's been a 920 goalie, and thats behind a porous defence. Save percentage isn't perfect, but its a damn good indicator of goalie talent, and even when goalies move, stays pretty consistent. Luongo's save percentage behind porous Panther teams from 2003-2007 or so was the same as it was behind the top notch canucks teams, and is still the same back with the Panthers today. Thats but one example, but it continues for other goalies that change teams. GAA is highly variable to the strength of the team. Save Percentage is pretty consistent. Yes, I agree MT needs to be replaced... but to blame every single one of the issues on the Habs solely on coaching, is lunacy. You talk about loosey goosey style and relying on goalies but ignore the fact that we give up amongst the fewest shots in the entire NHL. You ignore that Max and others no longer fly the zone looking for breakaway passes. You ignore the fact that we have given up FAR less scoring chances than 1 year ago. The difference is that today every scoring chance seems to end up in the back of the net. These goalies are an issue and don't make big saves. And if you think that its 100% on coaching and there is absolutely 0% of the blame to be placed on sub-par goaltending, quite frankly you don't know what you are talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Then he will know for sure he needs another goaltender? Who said he would sit on his hands next year? You have a crystal ball I guess, and you are basing a strategy on a what if? Yep, you are right, blow the team up and try to make the playoffs now then, with Reimer in nets. Sounds good. He screwed up big time there. He went into the season with Dustin Tokarski as the backup, and then Mike Condon luckily beat him out for the role in training camp. Then he upgrades Tokarski with a guy who had the worst save percentage in the AHL. With Price's injury history, an adequate backup should have been a prioirty. They aren't against the cap like some other teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 He screwed up big time there. He went into the season with Dustin Tokarski as the backup, and then Mike Condon luckily beat him out for the role in training camp. Then he upgrades Tokarski with a guy who had the worst save percentage in the AHL. With Price's injury history, an adequate backup should have been a prioirty. They aren't against the cap like some other teams. I think we bring Fucale up and dig a big hole to put Scrivens in. Condom is actually a good goalie, but he needs a little defensive help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Cam Talbot had a rough October and half of November as he adjusted to a new team. Since December he's been a 920 goalie, and thats behind a porous defence. Save percentage isn't perfect, but its a damn good indicator of goalie talent, and even when goalies move, stays pretty consistent. Luongo's save percentage behind porous Panther teams from 2003-2007 or so was the same as it was behind the top notch canucks teams, and is still the same back with the Panthers today. Thats but one example, but it continues for other goalies that change teams. GAA is highly variable to the strength of the team. Save Percentage is pretty consistent. Yes, I agree MT needs to be replaced... but to blame every single one of the issues on the Habs solely on coaching, is lunacy. You talk about loosey goosey style and relying on goalies but ignore the fact that we give up amongst the fewest shots in the entire NHL. You ignore that Max and others no longer fly the zone looking for breakaway passes. You ignore the fact that we have given up FAR less scoring chances than 1 year ago. The difference is that today every scoring chance seems to end up in the back of the net. These goalies are an issue and don't make big saves. And if you think that its 100% on coaching and there is absolutely 0% of the blame to be placed on sub-par goaltending, quite frankly you don't know what you are talking about. Good post (as usual). Habs29, I think everyone (except DON?) agrees that MT needs to go. So we're all on board there. The issue being discussed here is Grizzly Adams. And I say that, while it'd have been nice to see him land a big fish (other than Vanek and Petry, both whom are conveniently dismissed by his critics), his conservative approach made sense. Lovett, Bergy could not have "planned" for Price to get injured, nor can he assume, in making plans for the future, that Price will be damaged goods. Price is irreplaceable. The team is constructed around him. What do we want him to do, go out and spend $6 mil on Ryan Miller "just in case?" He didn't screw up; rather, he had the worst-case scenario happen. And he responded to it cool-headedly rather than by panicking and giving away assets for desperate quick fixes. Does this mean he's a genius? No. Like I say, the coming year will tell the tale of our GM. He needs to fix most or all of the team's structural weaknesses by trade deadline day, 2017. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Good post (as usual). Habs29, I think everyone (except DON?) agrees that MT needs to go. So we're all on board there. The issue being discussed here is Grizzly Adams. And I say that, while it'd have been nice to see him land a big fish (other than Vanek and Petry, both whom are conveniently dismissed by his critics), his conservative approach made sense. Lovett, Bergy could not have "planned" for Price to get injured, nor can he assume, in making plans for the future, that Price will be damaged goods. Price is irreplaceable. The team is constructed around him. What do we want him to do, go out and spend $6 mil on Ryan Miller "just in case?" He didn't screw up; rather, he had the worst-case scenario happen. And he responded to it cool-headedly rather than by panicking and giving away assets for desperate quick fixes. Does this mean he's a genius? No. Like I say, the coming year will tell the tale of our GM. He needs to fix most or all of the team's structural weaknesses by trade deadline day, 2017. As always CC you are the reasonable one. I agree with your post. But I think even Don knows that his uncle is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Habs fans right now 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 We've pretty much been talking about the same structural weaknesses for three years - until I see Mgmt actually do anything to address them, I'm not willing to cut them anymore slack. Good post (as usual). Habs29, I think everyone (except DON?) agrees that MT needs to go. So we're all on board there. The issue being discussed here is Grizzly Adams. And I say that, while it'd have been nice to see him land a big fish (other than Vanek and Petry, both whom are conveniently dismissed by his critics), his conservative approach made sense. Lovett, Bergy could not have "planned" for Price to get injured, nor can he assume, in making plans for the future, that Price will be damaged goods. Price is irreplaceable. The team is constructed around him. What do we want him to do, go out and spend $6 mil on Ryan Miller "just in case?" He didn't screw up; rather, he had the worst-case scenario happen. And he responded to it cool-headedly rather than by panicking and giving away assets for desperate quick fixes. Does this mean he's a genius? No. Like I say, the coming year will tell the tale of our GM. He needs to fix most or all of the team's structural weaknesses by trade deadline day, 2017. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Habs rule, check your PM's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I am on the fence whether firing Therrien in April is a good thing, or just a change for sake of change. He likely is an average coach, so could get worse or be lucky and Crawford-Bouche really are a better fit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I am on the fence whether firing Therrien in April is a good thing, or just a change for sake of change. He likely is an average coach, so could get worse or be lucky and Crawford-Bouche really are a better fit? Pee wee Herman would be a better fit than le genius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I am on the fence whether firing Therrien in April is a good thing, or just a change for sake of change. He likely is an average coach, so could get worse or be lucky and Crawford-Bouche really are a better fit? He is an average coach, but after four years, his message is starting to be tuned out and a new message is needed. a new set of eyes without preconcieved notions of how to use Galchenyuk, pacioretty, subban, DD, Emelin, Markov, Beaulieu etc... is also needed. At a certain point, human nature hasn't allowed him to see the change in these players and he still utilizes them like its 2013. None of this makes him a bad coach, just one who has outlived his lifespan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Habs rule, check your PM's... I did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 He is a lousy coach, can't run a p/p. Has no idea how to run an offence. Now that he has been exposed by Carey's absence you have all figured out that he CAN'T coach. I have been saying the same thing for 3 years. Hey Carey You good to go tonite? That is your forking coach. Couldn't coach the most offensive powered team in the league, that would be Pits. With Sydney Forking Crosby. Wtf more do I have to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 He couldn't coach the Penguins? I seem to remember him taking them all the way to the Stanley Cup Final. The hyperbole that this guy is as bad as you guys claim is ridiculous. Obviously he's run his time and I don't want him back, but thats no reason for the over the top trashing or ignoring that this was a 27th place club (with Carey Price) when he got here. Price also had a low save percentage in 2012-13, and Therrien still took the team to first in the division. So the idea that he's done nothing, or that its all price, isnt exactly true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 He couldn't coach the Penguins? I seem to remember him taking them all the way to the Stanley Cup Final. The hyperbole that this guy is as bad as you guys claim is ridiculous. Obviously he's run his time and I don't want him back, but thats no reason for the over the top trashing or ignoring that this was a 27th place club (with Carey Price) when he got here. Price also had a low save percentage in 2012-13, and Therrien still took the team to first in the division. So the idea that he's done nothing, or that its all price, isnt exactly true. So you think he coached Price? When he got fired from Pittsburgh for basically being an asshole, what was Bylsma did what was OH wait there was some cup involved OH yeah the stanley cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 So you think he coached Price? When he got fired from Pittsburgh for basically being an asshole, what was Bylsma did what was OH wait there was some cup involved OH yeah the stanley cup. If someone could translate this that would be great. Therrien was in the Stanley Cup final with his team, fact. To discredit that, while crediting a different coach for winning a couple more games the next year to win the cup, is just being biased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 If someone could translate this that would be great. Therrien was in the Stanley Cup final with his team, fact. To discredit that, while crediting a different coach for winning a couple more games the next year to win the cup, is just being biased. who won the cup in 2009 ? look it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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