Machine of Loving Grace Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 It's a great point. We tend to fixate on The Saviour. But really, we just need 1-2 forwards who can be offensively productive in the top-6. They needn't be superstars, as nice as that might be. We might have a superstar in the guy we picked third overall and is currently our number one centre despite some people thinking we still need another centre or it's AOK to once again move him to the wing. Before the fall in December we were one of the best goal scoring teams in the league and by the end of the trashfire season we scored 216 goals. That's three less than the Blues, one more than the Ducks, and 13 goals from Top 10 in goal scoring. You add two 20+ goal scorers to this team and we could be Top 5. Recchi came to Habs in his 9th NHL year, so what at all does that have to do with drafting a 18 year old forward prospect for offense over a d-man? Teams with zero all-star forwards win zero cups and that is what Habs have been for awhile now. To have an all-star forward, we need a forward better than P.K. Subban and Carey Price. The NHL is always going to select Price to represent when he's available. For the past three seasons, only two left wingers have scored more goals than Max Pacioretty (Ovechkin and Benn). Only four left wingers have more points than him (Ovechkin, Benn, Gaudreau, Sedin). If being a top five left winger in the entire league isn't your definition of an all-star because Leo Komarov gets in the ASG and Pacioretty doesn't because we have two players better than him, dunno what to tell you man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 We might have a superstar in the guy we picked third overall and is currently our number one centre despite some people thinking we still need another centre or it's AOK to once again move him to the wing. Before the fall in December we were one of the best goal scoring teams in the league and by the end of the trashfire season we scored 216 goals. That's three less than the Blues, one more than the Ducks, and 13 goals from Top 10 in goal scoring. You add two 20+ goal scorers to this team and we could be Top 5. To have an all-star forward, we need a forward better than P.K. Subban and Carey Price. The NHL is always going to select Price to represent when he's available. For the past three seasons, only two left wingers have scored more goals than Max Pacioretty (Ovechkin and Benn). Only four left wingers have more points than him (Ovechkin, Benn, Gaudreau, Sedin). If being a top five left winger in the entire league isn't your definition of an all-star because Leo Komarov gets in the ASG and Pacioretty doesn't because we have two players better than him, dunno what to tell you man. Sorry, mid-season all-star category are yearly and not for career production (of the LWers at all-star break, where was Max in point totals, 10-15th?) At the end of year, Max has never been voted to 1st nor 2nd all star team. Subban 1st team twice and Price once. Wanna know when last Hab forward was voted to either a 1st or 2nd all-star team...same year he was top ten in scoring Naslund in 85-86. So my point being, Habs haven't had an elite NHL talent at forward for a hell of a long time. (Kovalev I guess would be closest thing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stogey24 Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 It has been a fackin long time eh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 So you're not satisfied with the best goalie in the world, one of the best defencemen in the world and a top five LW in the league. Gotcha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 So you're not satisfied with the best goalie in the world, one of the best defencemen in the world and a top five LW in the league. Gotcha. Seems many were cursing Pacioretty this year, last year and said he is a poor choice for captain and is invisible 1/2 the games. Pacioretty among LWers was 6th, 6th, 11th and 10th in scoring. So top five must be Hab-Rose coloured glasses influenced. So no am not satisfied one bit with team offense from the forward group and haven't been since lock-out year. You are satisfied they finished 16th, 20th, 21st in team scoring and 25th, 25th, 21st on the PP for last three years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Seems many were cursing Pacioretty this year, last year and said he is a poor choice for captain and is invisible 1/2 the games.Mostly because they don't know what other stars look like. Maybe you have a point there. Habs fans don't watch star forwards enough to see how they play in the majority of their games. Every elite player has an off day. Most score their points in bunches. Few players in the NHL are point per game. Plus it's easier to complain about the superstars than the rest of the team. The fact Habs fans don't properly appreciate Pacioretty isn't a point for him not being one of the five best players in the league at his position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 This seems to be a squabble over nothing. EVERYONE agrees we need to add at least one legitimate top-6 FW - say, a guy who can score at least 20-30 goals and 50-60 points on a money-in-the-bank basis. If we add that guy without removing other pieces, we will score more goals. What is the point of arguing over whether he MUST be a 40-goal scorer? Give us more goals, then we can argue over narrow details. Pacioretty is under-appreciated, I agree; and what's puzzling is that under-appreciated players in the cap era are usually overpaid guys. Patches is one of the very best values in the entire league, so I guess it's the "C" that has made him a target. Anyway, he is pretty much last on our list of problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted May 1, 2016 Share Posted May 1, 2016 Seems many were cursing Pacioretty this year, last year and said he is a poor choice for captain and is invisible 1/2 the games. Pacioretty among LWers was 6th, 6th, 11th and 10th in scoring. So top five must be Hab-Rose coloured glasses influenced. So no am not satisfied one bit with team offense from the forward group and haven't been since lock-out year. You are satisfied they finished 16th, 20th, 21st in team scoring and 25th, 25th, 21st on the PP for last three years? Patches is one of the few that I am happy with, I have absolutely no problem with his play. He is a sniper, give me 2 more just like or even one would be ok. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Edmonton - pick is in play and could be parlayed to a team wanting Dubois/Tkachuk Vancouver- has said all things equal they will take a forward. Calgary - could go either way but highly unlikely they pass up Tkachuk or Dubois should Edmonton keep the pick and take a defenceman. Arizona could easily take forward Nylander and so could buffalo. To say all these team need defenceman is nonsense. Most likely Montreal has to chose from forwards Jost, Jones, McLeod, Keller,Bellows or God forbid Gauthier. Or Defense men Bean, Sergachev Fabbro or McAvoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Edmonton - pick is in play and could be parlayed to a team wanting Dubois/Tkachuk Vancouver- has said all things equal they will take a forward. Calgary - could go either way but highly unlikely they pass up Tkachuk or Dubois should Edmonton keep the pick and take a defenceman. Arizona could easily take forward Nylander and so could buffalo. To say all these team need defenceman is nonsense. Most likely Montreal has to chose from forwards Jost, Jones, McLeod, Keller,Bellows or God forbid Gauthier. Or Defense men Bean, Sergachev Fabbro or McAvoy What Vancouver says and does may be totally different and I don't think they even know what they are doing. Why not Logan Brown? Jones, Bellows, Fabbro, McAvoy all likely will go later in 1st round and seems Sergachev likely will be gone, but one of top 3 d-men should still be standing at 9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 What Vancouver says and does may be totally different and I don't think they even know what they are doing. Why not Logan Brown? Jones, Bellows, Fabbro, McAvoy all likely will go later in 1st round and seems Sergachev likely will be gone, but one of top 3 d-men should still be standing at 9. Other than Toronto and Winnipeg no teams probably have any idea what they are going to do. Logan Brown is in the same category as those players you mentioned. Probably drafted between 10-20 o/a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 If the Leafs draft Matthews, does that lower the chances of seing them sign Stamkos ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 If the Leafs draft Matthews, does that lower the chances of seing them sign Stamkos ? They will draft him and not sure why would decrease odds of signing SS? Why would it Joe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Other than Toronto and Winnipeg no teams probably have any idea what they are going to do. Logan Brown is in the same category as those players you mentioned. Probably drafted between 10-20 o/a I kinda mean Canucks are quite dysfunctional at the moment and am not beating the draft Logan drum, but he was a stand out at U18s and has done well in OHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 If the Leafs draft Matthews, does that lower the chances of seing them sign Stamkos ? Not at all. Still up to Stamkos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Edmonton - pick is in play and could be parlayed to a team wanting Dubois/Tkachuk Vancouver- has said all things equal they will take a forward. Calgary - could go either way but highly unlikely they pass up Tkachuk or Dubois should Edmonton keep the pick and take a defenceman. Arizona could easily take forward Nylander and so could buffalo. To say all these team need defenceman is nonsense. Most likely Montreal has to chose from forwards Jost, Jones, McLeod, Keller,Bellows or God forbid Gauthier. Or Defense men Bean, Sergachev Fabbro or McAvoy I didn't say these teams will take defencemen I said they all (with the exception of calgary) have a greater need for defence than forward. Anyone looking at their young players and prospects would come to this conclusion for all four of those clubs. Edmonton - well known what they need. Vancouver recent draft picks... Horvat, McCann, Boeser, Virtanen, Gaunce, Cassels, where is the defence? Top prospects there is an undersized Jordan Subban and a 23-year-old Andrey Pedan. Arizona - Duclair, Domi, Dylan Strome, Perlini, Dvorak, etc... they are stacked at forward. They have 0 defence prospects worth a damn. Hockey's future lists Jarred Tinordi as their best prospect on defence. How laughable is that? Buffalo - have Eichel, Reinhart, O'Reilly down the middle... have Bailey, Carrier, Baptiste, Fasching, Karabacek on wing... have Ristolainen and maybe Jake McCabe on defence. The area of need is the blue line. Will some draft forwards... sure, cause teams don't usually draft for need, but that doesn't change the fact that they have a much bigger need at defence. "to say all these team need defenceman is nonsense." No actually, its not nonsense, its facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Not at all. Still up to Stamkos. I meant, in Stamkos' situation. Unless Toronto would start Matthews on 3rd line duty while Kadri and Stamkos share 1-2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 I meant, in Stamkos' situation. Unless Toronto would start Matthews on 3rd line duty while Kadri and Stamkos share 1-2. In what world would stamkos and Kadri share 1 and 2? If the leafs sign stamkos, he is the undisputed #1 for at least next year, until Mathews proves he better. If anything, depending on how ready Mathews is, Kadri and Mathews share the 2 and 3 role.Having said that stamkos would be nuts to sign with the leafs and waste at least 2 years of his prime on a rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 In what world would stamkos and Kadri share 1 and 2? If the leafs sign stamkos, he is the undisputed #1 for at least next year, until Mathews proves he better. If anything, depending on how ready Mathews is, Kadri and Mathews share the 2 and 3 role. Having said that stamkos would be nuts to sign with the leafs and waste at least 2 years of his prime on a rebuild. dunno... Maybe in a world where Stamkos was regurlarly on 2nd line with Tampa Bay... Dépends on what kind of combinations Babcock would be playing. I agree that Stamkos would waste some time, but long term, the team is likely to become pretty good again now that some heavy dead weight has been thrown out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 At 9th overall does it really matter if we draft a forward or a defenceman? Since he will not play for us in at least a year or two. I think we need a top defence prospect almost more than we need a forward prospect. We already have a few nice top6 forwardprospects in Lehkonen and Scherbak. What top4 defence prospects to we have? Juulsen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Is either of Lehkonen or Scherbak going to be a game breaker? they are nice prospects, but I'm not sure they are at that level. Finding a true game changer at forward is harder to do later in the draft than it is on defence. Defencemen develop later and so you can find some gems. I think if all else is equal and there is a good forward (preferably a centre) on the board at 9, and there is a good defenceman as well, i want the forward.I'm fine with using my two second rounders, my third rounder, etc... to build depth on defence and hope to find lightning in a bottle that way. Its just far more likely you find a top D at that point in a draft than that you will find a top forward there (you find good ones, but the elite types like Jamile Benn are far more rare than the PK Subban, Shea Weber, Duncan Keith, Nic Lidstrom, Zdeno Chara, John Klingberg, etc... you can sometimes find at those spots). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Yes, would like to avoid any more Tinordi's taken in 1st round, when defensive d-men like him seem always can be found in 2nd round (as Petrovic and Stephen John's were in 2010). Although Chychrun and Sergachev maybe will have enough offense to make it worthwhile as high pick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 I meant, in Stamkos' situation. Unless Toronto would start Matthews on 3rd line duty while Kadri and Stamkos share 1-2. Matthews is comfortable playing RW so they could have him top six immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Isnt Stamkos a winger also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 Isnt Stamkos a winger also. Cooper certainly thought so. Thought Filppula was better than him in the role. Nobody else agreed. Probably sounds familiar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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