JLP Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 This is one way of cutting your tax bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Teh Building was evaluated at 150 million$ between 2004 and 2006, and the municipal Evaluation is about to go up or 2007-2008. It will be in the neighborhood of 228 million$. I can understand why the Habs want to have a lower evaluation, but they have to be realistic here. The Bell centre is the most profitable arena in North America, second in the world after some arena in the UK. There are shows and events going on in that building almost 300 nights a year(the past 2 nights Bon Jovi was in town). For the habs to say that the building should be worth 60 million$ is just ridiculous, they should try a believable and realistic figure!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Teh Building was evaluated at 150 million$ between 2004 and 2006, and the municipal Evaluation is about to go up or 2007-2008. It will be in the neighborhood of 228 million$. I can understand why the Habs want to have a lower evaluation, but they have to be realistic here. The Bell centre is the most profitable arena in North America, second in the world after some arena in the UK. There are shows and events going on in that building almost 300 nights a year(the past 2 nights Bon Jovi was in town). For the habs to say that the building should be worth 60 million$ is just ridiculous, they should try a believable and realistic figure!! Bell makes more than MSG?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 Bell makes more than MSG?? Yep. I think the St Pete Times-Forum is actually more profitable than MSG. MSG has to compete with a lot of other comparable venues in the New York area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted November 16, 2007 Author Share Posted November 16, 2007 the root of the problem is that the Habs pay more taxes than the other 29 NHL teams combined. Mtl loves hockey, should the city give the Habs a break? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 the root of the problem is that the Habs pay more taxes than the other 29 NHL teams combined. Mtl loves hockey, should the city give the Habs a break? I'm generally against tax breaks for sports teams, but I don't really have an opinion here. On one level, taxing the Habs is a no brainer for the city - the canadiens are simply not going to leave montreal and they are not going to go bankrupt. On the other hand, there seems to be some amount of inequity vis-a-vis other teams' taxes. Also, the Habs do create a lot of commerce in Montreal... although wasn't the bell centre paid for by the habs? Most other cities to some degree finance the arena (I'm also usually against that). If so, the disparity of total operational costs between the habs and other NHL teams is even larger. Perhaps a friendly appraisal isn't so terrible. One nice thing about a low appraisal is that it can with relative ease be revised higher at a later date if you change your mind. I'd prefer a low appraisal to an out and out tax break. How does amortization work in the Canadian Tax Code? I'm sure that CHC gets to depreciate the building against its corp taxes... I'd imagine that is a pretty big tax deduction. Anybody know what kind of schedule CHC is amortizing on? I think in the US it would be like 25 year straight line for this kind of building, which would be like a $9-10 mil tax deduction. Are the habs pleading poverty or inequity? Is CHC saying that they are in the red because of the property taxes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 (edited) although wasn't the bell centre paid for by the habs? The Bell Centre was originally paid for by the Molson family(hence its original name of the Molson Centre) Edited November 16, 2007 by Habsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mont Royale Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 How does amortization work in the Canadian Tax Code? I'm sure that CHC gets to depreciate the building against its corp taxes... I'd imagine that is a pretty big tax deduction. Anybody know what kind of schedule CHC is amortizing on? I think in the US it would be like 25 year straight line for this kind of building, which would be like a $9-10 mil tax deduction. Are the habs pleading poverty or inequity? Is CHC saying that they are in the red because of the property taxes? I believe the Habs can amortize the building at 4% declining balance. From what I've read, they're pleading inequity. No way can they still be in the red. I read somewhere that they now have the second highest estimated operating earnings in the league, behind TML (I think it was that Forbes ranking of teams). It'll be interesting to see if the City of Montreal cares what other NHL cities charge for property tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 (edited) Profitability really has nothing to do with it. I has to do with the worth of the building...which factors in the value of the structure itself, the land it's built on, the cost of sewer service from the city, ect. If the Bell Center is being taxed at a higher rate than the Air Canada Center, well....that's just ridiculous...since land in Toronto is clearly worth more. The CHC has good reason to be looking for a break...they've been gouged by the city of Montreal for years. Edited November 16, 2007 by sbhatt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 If the Bell Center is being taxed at a higher rate than the Air Canada Center, well....that's just ridiculous...since land in Toronto is clearly worth more. Normally i'd agree with you, but we all know tha the value of a building has everything to do with Location. Isn't the ACC just a bit off dwontown Toronot(next to the gardiner Expressway)? I'd think that Location wise, the Bell Cnetre(which is right smack in the middle of downtwon) is located in a better location? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataclaw Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 (edited) Normally i'd agree with you, but we all know tha the value of a building has everything to do with Location. Isn't the ACC just a bit off dwontown Toronot(next to the gardiner Expressway)? I'd think that Location wise, the Bell Cnetre(which is right smack in the middle of downtwon) is located in a better location? The ACC is less than 300m from the bulk of downtown Toronto, not literally "in" the core like the Bell Center, but still very close. Approx 3 minute walk. Edited November 16, 2007 by Cataclaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 The ACC is less than 300m from the bulk of downtown Toronto, not literally "in" the core like the Bell Center, but still very close. Approx 3 minute walk. Depends what you determine as the core. The ACC is connected to Union Station which is the hub of the city during weeknights. Almost all of the subway commmuters from outside the city connect through Union Station because the GO/VIA trains stop there. It is also very easily accesible for anybody on the Subway line from every route in the city. The reason you see all the suits in the stands in the ACC is because it is 2 minutes from the TD Center, Scotia Plaza, Royal Bank, Merril Lynch etc etc. It is a block from Yonge St, it is a 5 minute walk from the CN Tower/Skydome (sorry Rogers Centre), 5 minute walk to the harbourfront and there are condos popping up all over the place daily. The underground P.A.T.H connects from the ACC to the Eaton Centre. It is pretty much the best place you could put it in the city. Considering the amount of building going on in that area I could not even imagine how much the real estate is worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 I will go for tax breaks if the tax benefit shows greater returns. Maybe the savings trickle down to the fans. The fans save and can spend more on collectibles and memorabilia for the Habs. Sometimes those saved dollars can be spent on the holiday season. Sometimes tax breaks can result with providing equal or better tax revenue. If it works in this case, why not? Government study please? In defence of the Canadiens, the city has clearly milked this beyond what is valid and correct. We knew this 3 years ago. I just wonder by how much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 I will go for tax breaks if the tax benefit shows greater returns. Maybe the savings trickle down to the fans. The fans save and can spend more on collectibles and memorabilia for the Habs. Sometimes those saved dollars can be spent on the holiday season. Sometimes tax breaks can result with providing equal or better tax revenue. If it works in this case, why not? Government study please? In defence of the Canadiens, the city has clearly milked this beyond what is valid and correct. We knew this 3 years ago. I just wonder by how much. It is amazing that they pay more than the other 29 teams combined and the city of Montreal won't budge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 It is amazing that they pay more than the other 29 teams combined and the city of Montreal won't budge Thats right. More then Toronto, Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, and Ottawa combined. So even if you ignore the US and their vastly different view on taxes, how can they pay so much more then similar venues in other Canadian cities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 (edited) They should give them a break. How many bars and restaurants depend on the Habs? All of those workers pay taxes and so do the customers. Take away the Canadiens or their ability to be a healthy franchise and some of those dividends might be lost. Don Cherry has really stressed how much of a boom a team can make. Calgary and Edmonton come to mind. Both cities spill out of their arenas to their bars and restaurants. It's good business. Edited November 16, 2007 by Athlétique.Canadien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 The property taxes in the City of Montreal seem dangerously high and quite obviously should be lowered. The Canadiens deserve a break, but they're not the Expos - they can afford to pay the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 the habs should just declare that their primary place of residence is Florida. It works for Jeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 the habs should just declare that their primary place of residence is Florida. It works for Jeter. It almost worked for Jeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortHanded Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 The property taxes in the City of Montreal seem dangerously high and quite obviously should be lowered. The Canadiens deserve a break, but they're not the Expos - they can afford to pay the difference. As long as they can afford it, the city will continue to milk them... but it is unfair... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 We're all getting milked by this stupid city. They tax residents to death and squander our money on idiotic bike paths that nobody uses, meanwhile they're too chicken to take on the real black holes of money like the city's blue collar union. This city is just a giant mafia racket that really pisses me off sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 As long as they can afford it, the city will continue to milk them... but it is unfair... Perhaps Mr. Gillette should start to muse about building a new arena in the suburbs once the Bell centre gets long in the tooth.... That's the leverage you have with a city...the threat to move just outside the boundaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted November 18, 2007 Share Posted November 18, 2007 Haha, say he will build it in westmount! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 Haha, say he will build it in westmount! There's no room in Westmount! Even if Gilette were to threaten to build out side the city, nobody would take him seriously! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortHanded Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 We're all getting milked by this stupid city. They tax residents to death and squander our money on idiotic bike paths that nobody uses, meanwhile they're too chicken to take on the real black holes of money like the city's blue collar union. This city is just a giant mafia racket that really pisses me off sometimes. I use that Bike path! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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