smon Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 And they were for the most part moves that the Canadiens deeply regretted later. Maybe not the Muller one, since it garnered Turgeon - but Muller never played near the same level ever again in his career. As KoZed mentioned, it's a rather typical response from Montreal fans, and we've seen the results in the trades of players such as Roy and Chelios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 (edited) And they were for the most part moves that the Canadiens deeply regretted later. Maybe not the Muller one, since it garnered Turgeon - but Muller never played near the same level ever again in his career. As KoZed mentioned, it's a rather typical response from Montreal fans, and we've seen the results in the trades of players such as Roy and Chelios. I don't think anybody has been unreasonable in regards to Koivu. I don't think anybody is actively pushing for him to be shopped. All anybody is really saying is if a deal comes up that helps the team then pull the trigger even if Koivu is involved. I don't think this can be mentioned in the same breath as Chelios/Roy as both of those guys were the BEST or one of the best at their positions at the time, and in their PRIME. Of course they would haunt you in the future. Edited December 10, 2007 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habstown Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 trade everyone up if you want but not our Saku, we can't not blame him ... blame the management! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 (edited) As KoZed mentioned, it's a rather typical response from Montreal fans, and we've seen the results in the trades of players such as Roy and Chelios. Koivu isn't in the same class as Roy and Chelios....he wasn't in their class in his prime. Edited December 10, 2007 by sbhatt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l<OV4L3V Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Jesus I go away from the boards for a week...I come back..and the sky is falling down here apparently! After reading some very interesting posts, some which I totally agree with, others in which I absolutely disagree with its time to voice my opinion. Upon reflection, Koivu has been mediocre at best this season. He is turning over the puck, losing battles along the board, not utilizing the cycle correctly, and not coming up big for us when it matters the most. A captain is one who commands, leads, or guides others. Saku has not brought this team together. He has had more then enough opportunities to do so. But what we have to realize is that he is a 2nd line centre trying to fill a 1st line role. And that is the truth. The reality of it is, Bob Gainey goofed up BIGTIME giving him the NTC and the salary he awarded him. Saku's best season to date is last season, with 75 points....Hmmm I wonder what the problem is here. Is it Koivu...or is it the lack of landing the REAL first line centre? I think it is more-so of landing the real first line centre. Lets take a look at the other teams, shall we? Senators: Alfy, Spezza, Heatley Penguins: Crosby, Malkin Lightning: Lecavilier, St Louis, Richards Thrashers: Kovalchuk, Hossa Panthers: Jokinen, Horton Hurricanes: Brindamour, Stillman, Cole Sabres: Vanek, Connolly, Roy, Hecht, Kotalik, Afinogenov, Pominville Flyers: Briere, Gagne, Knuble, Richards, Lupul Rangers: Drury, Jagr, Straka, Shanahan, Gomez Islanders: Satan,Sillinger, Comrie, Guerin Bruins: Bergeron, Murray, Kessel Leafs: Sundin, Blake (underachieving) Capitals: Ovechkin, Semin, Nylander Devils: Elias, Parise, Gionta, Madden, Zajac, Langenbrunner, Brylin, Zubrus And Now Us: Koivu (no show this year), Higgins (o.k season), Ryder (Brutal season), Kovalev (great season so far)...then Plekanec, Latendresse, Kostitsyn, Chipchura, Smolinski, Lapierre...... Has anyone seen a recurring trend here? Every team in the Eastern conference landed themselves a 80-100+ point getter besides US. And if they didn't land the 80-100+ point getter, they got a bunch of 50-70 point getters to balance the offense. I don't even want to do the Western conference because its basically the same trend there as well! What I'm trying to get across is that not all the blame should be put on Koivu's shoulders. And for all of you who said have faith in Bob and our farm system...WAKE UP. Here's a little analysis: Little #### might be a 2nd liner at best someday, Chipchura will be solid..but is not first line material, Latendresse may be something, but he could very well be a flop show as well, big #### looks promising already, plekanec is a solid 2nd line centre. Enough faith in the farm already...it's time to let some of "the cattle" roam and land that big name we oh so desperately NEED. I remember watching a TSN telecast and Pierre Mcguire mentioning Teemu Selanne...Lets see here...He's a Fin....he's better than about 95% of our roster...Why not give him a call? You want an impact player...Here he is!!! GP 82 Goals: 48 Assists: 46 Points: 94 this is the kind of impact player we need! Not Patrick Marleau. Selanne is coming off a cup win! He's healthy....we have cap room...and I hope that pussy (excuse my French...but he pisses me off a lot sometimes) Bob Gainey pulls that damn trigger before this season starts circling the drain!!! Now let's re-evaluate the line and look at our depth then...Selanne-Koivu-Kovalev If you ask me....that first line looks dangerous all of a sudden. All I'm saying is this..you CANT put all the blame on Koivu. Yes he's playing under his level, but also...YES the Habs need to let the cattle go in the farm and get rid of Smoke (another BG mistake), Ryder (worth a bag of pucks), package them with Huet (let him string a few wins together and dish him back to LA) while he still has some sort of value to him, and some prospects. So with all this being said..NO do not trade Koivu...And if he does go...make damn sure its to the West (Maybe Minnesota). In reality, I dont care if Oleg Petrov comes back and becomes our next captain...it boils down to who is hungry and has a serious desire to win. I am a Montreal Canadiens fan...and like all other fans...We want one thing and one thing only...THE CUP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 trade everyone up if you want but not our Saku, we can't not blame him ... blame the management! why does Koivu ALWAYS get a pass ?? it seems like its never, ever his fault. if beliveau, lafleur roy and richard got it from the fans and media why not Saku ?? I'm not saying everything is his fault but as a team captain, he has to be held accountable. so goes the captain, so goes the team. facts: he's been great for the team and the community but that doesnt make him untradeable. fact 2: he never had a legit winger...but hasn't made others better like a great player does. I dont know if it showed on TV but at the bell centre, the team captain didn't look like he gave a shit. no effort, no passion. that's not the koivu I used to adore. doesnt show that grit he used to. 4pts in his last 10 isnt good enough. in that same span, Higgins has scored 9 points and both had decent ice time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 trade everyone up if you want but not our Saku, we can't not blame him ... blame the management! That's what "fans" have done for the past 10 years yet nothing has changed. Now even Saku himself believes he's above criticism. I'm sorry, but that's not how it works. That's not the Habs way. Team comes first. Saku has to shoulder his share of the blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I, for one, wish that Koivu would give up the C. He needs to just concentrate on hockey right now. I said the same thing last year and got bashed, I'll be interested to see how the idea is received now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortHanded Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I, for one, wish that Koivu would give up the C. He needs to just concentrate on hockey right now. I said the same thing last year and got bashed, I'll be interested to see how the idea is received now. and who do you think on the team as is should wear it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I, for one, wish that Koivu would give up the C. He needs to just concentrate on hockey right now. I said the same thing last year and got bashed, I'll be interested to see how the idea is received now. half-agree, but Saku should keep the "C." Habs need a go-to 1st-line winger, Saku is an excellent playmaker but for years he has played without worthy linemates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I, for one, wish that Koivu would give up the C. He needs to just concentrate on hockey right now. I said the same thing last year and got bashed, I'll be interested to see how the idea is received now. this is such a hard topic. I am not completely closed to the idea that perhaps a Komisarek or even a Hamrlik might not be a better captain at this very moment, but taking a C away from a guy can kill his confidence. I know you said that your wish was for Koivu to give it up, but wouldn't that possibly indicate to the room that he had given up on them? Also, if Koivu gave up the C and stayed on the team, it would be like a really strong, popular PM giving up the leadership to take a regular seat in parliament. For as long as the former PM is around, the next guy is always waiting to be replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 and who do you think on the team as is should wear it? komisarek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smon Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 That's riduculous, Komisarek is hardly at the stage in his career where he can wear one. That sort of move would alienate the team and place a lot of pressure on a young kid who's just started to get it together in the NHL. Anyhow, speaking of Koivu...was watching something on the 1992-93 Habs on TV a while ago, and they ran a clip showing how during the regular season a newspaper poll found that the majority of Canadiens fans wanted Patrick Roy traded. Apparently Racicot was more worthy of the starter's role... It's just something that goes with the territory in Montreal, the best player on the team is always the first to be criticized, and sometimes run out of town. We all saw what happened the last time a talking head from RDS (who I'm surprised haven't started calling for Koivu's head) got to run the ship and that resulted in the probably one of the worst trades in NHL history. More to the point, yeah Koivu's playing like shit. But I hardly see the cause for concern. If he dogs it through the entire season like Kovalev did last year, then yeah, something drastic would have to happen. But the past 10 games? Come on, it's hardly enough to stamp the "worn out" tag on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 (edited) That's riduculous, Komisarek is hardly at the stage in his career where he can wear one. That sort of move would alienate the team and place a lot of pressure on a young kid who's just started to get it together in the NHL. koivu was already captain at komi's age. this team deserves to be alienated. they've been playing like crap for the longest time. besides he's one of the only player who backs up on the ice what he says in front of a mike Edited December 10, 2007 by marky_and_komi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I know you said that your wish was for Koivu to give it up, but wouldn't that possibly indicate to the room that he had given up on them? Also, if Koivu gave up the C and stayed on the team, it would be like a really strong, popular PM giving up the leadership to take a regular seat in parliament. For as long as the former PM is around, the next guy is always waiting to be replaced. That certainly didn't happen when Modano gave up the C in Dallas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 That certainly didn't happen when Modano gave up the C in Dallas. Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 It's a huge risk to strip a captaincy. It has been done. Vinny in TB, Lindros in Philly. I wouldn't strip Saku though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 That certainly didn't happen when Modano gave up the C in Dallas. fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEEP26 Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 ok saku not playing well, but take away the C, we be know better then the leafs and the leafs fan..Trade him if we got to, but if they took the C, then we know that class as left montreal.As a habs fan all my life, i would hang my head in shame if that happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Trading for Saku right now is as tempting as trading for JR. But JR is less expensive and has only a one year contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Personally, I think captains should be held to a 'vote of confidence' from time to time by the other players....a silent vote where the other guys in the locker room can decide if they want their leadership to remain the same, or if they want to go in another direction. After all, they're the ones who have to follow the captain...so they should decide. If the guys feel Saku is the man for the job...then he should remain captain. If not, he should be stripped. What we think really doesn't matter (but for the record, I was ready to strip his captaincy after his post-olympic meltdown). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Personally, I think captains should be held to a 'vote of confidence' from time to time by the other players....a silent vote where the other guys in the locker room can decide if they want their leadership to remain the same, or if they want to go in another direction. After all, they're the ones who have to follow the captain...so they should decide. If the guys feel Saku is the man for the job...then he should remain captain. If not, he should be stripped. What we think really doesn't matter (but for the record, I was ready to strip his captaincy after his post-olympic meltdown). it would have been interesting to see how this might have worked when the three amigos were here... Theo et al could have been like the opposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 That certainly didn't happen when Modano gave up the C in Dallas. Modano won a cup. Has Saku or any other non-Canadian captain done the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I highly doubt the C is a distraction to Koivu. It's been part of his job description for years. And Kostopolous called him the best captain in hockey. This seems like sheer desperation to me. Trading him would be much more sensible, much more worthy of the respect he's earned, and much more likely to produce results. Just my 2cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 I highly doubt the C is a distraction to Koivu. It's been part of his job description for years. And Kostopolous called him the best captain in hockey. This seems like sheer desperation to me. Trading him would be much more sensible, much more worthy of the respect he's earned, and much more likely to produce results. Just my 2cents. Ok...that makes sense. But what if he doesn't have any intention of waving his no-trade clause for the team we get the best offer from? What if stripping him of the C is the only thing that makes him so anxious to leave that he'll go pretty much anywhere just to get out of Montreal? Just speculating here, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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