Wamsley01 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 (edited) I find it funny how some people here say Huet has been shaky all season and imply he is having a bad season. This comes from having dumb definitions of bad goals and harping on things that go in, not ones he keeps out, imo. Let's look at reality here people... 1 Timothy Jr. Thomas BOS 29 884 .930 13 11 3 67 2.33 951 1 0 0 2 1,726:53 2 Roberto Luongo VAN 39 1019 .928 21 14 4 79 2.04 1098 6 0 3 4 2,327:33 3 Pascal Leclaire CBJ 32 766 .926 17 8 3 61 2.03 827 7 0 2 2 1,800:38 4 Cristobal Huet MTL 27 763 .923 15 7 5 64 2.37 827 1 0 1 0 1,623:14 5 Chris Osgood DET 25 555 .922 19 3 2 47 1.95 602 2 0 3 0 1,448:01 6 Manny Legace STL 33 741 .922 17 10 3 63 2.06 804 3 0 0 2 1,837:31 7 Martin Brodeur NJD 40 960 .920 24 14 2 84 2.10 1044 4 0 1 2 2,401:18 8 Martin Gerber OTT 32 861 .919 21 7 1 76 2.53 937 1 0 1 2 Yeah, thats right. Huet has a better save percentage then Brodeur. He is 4th in the league and his stats are statistically insignificantly different from Luongo too. Every goalie can put together a highlight real of bad goals, miscues, and plain old dumb gaffes... The important point is to look at the big picture. The big picture here says that Huet is one of the top 5 goalies in the league this year. While his performance in the playoffs still needs to be seen (which is where Brodeur, Roy, and others made their names and really shine), we can hardly sit here and say that Huet is anything but solid overall. It is a rare night that Huet doesn't give this team a chance to win. Yes, he might want to stop leaving the net, or perhaps, he should keep doing it until he gets better at it. Those 4 right there show me that statistics do not tell the whole story. Goaltending is not all about stats. Does anybody here think Tim Thomas is the best goalie in the league? That Pascal Leclaire is the 3rd best goalie in the league? Osgood? Legace? Some goalies are a product of their system. Manny Fernandez in Minnesota looked like an All-Star, in Boston...not so much. Patrick Lalime was a top 5 goalie when he played in Ottawa. How has he done since he left there? Roman Chechmanek had the best stats in the league one year....would you want him in your net in a big game? How is Vesa Toskala doing in Toronto as opposed to San Jose? How did Andrew Raycroft do after his rookie year on a stacked Bruins team? etc etc etc. Some teams trap, some teams give up a lot of shots, but they are from the outside resulting in a high SV%. Do you think Leclaire and Thomas are better than Huet? Would you trade them straight up for him? Because the stats say you should. Huet is good, but he is nowhere near the category of Brodeur and Luongo. He is not above criticism and he has not been as good this year as he was in his first 60+ games with the Habs when he was dominant. Maybe the league figured him out, maybe he was playing over his head, who knows. Everytime he leaves his net...I cringe, that won't change. Edited January 18, 2008 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Ah statistics...don't you love statistics. You know what's nice about statistics? You can make them say anything you want! You say Huet is just as good as Luongo and Brodeur, because he has a comparable save%. I say that although huet has a comparable save %, he,s played fewer games thatn Luongo and Brodeur(40GP for Marty and 39GP for Bobby) Huet only has one shutout, whereas Bobby has 6 and Marty has 4. Huet has a 2.37 GAA whereas Marty has a 2.10GAA and Bobby a 2.04GAA. I thikn that what frustrates Habsfans about Huet, is that he is one of the best goalies in the league in the 1st and 2nd periods. BUt when the 3rd period or the OT/SO comes around...he has a tendancy of choking under the pressure. Shutouts say as much about the team as they do about the goalie. Our 3rd period collapses are almost always due to the team sitting back like they are on the PK for the entire 3rd period. I have watched every game this season and I can always tell when we are going to struggle in the 3rd. First, we blow a bunch of PP chances, then we play in our own end. After relentless pressure, a goal goes in (good or bad is irrelevant at that point), and the game is tied up, no momentum When you watch the devils, when they have a lead going into the 3rd, you can't even enter their zone!!! Brodeur doesn't have to stand on his head the entire 3rd period because the team plays a stiffling defense, not a "oh my God, please let us hold on" defense. I also never said he was as good or bad as Brodeur, just that his season stats are comparable. GAA is a team stat. Ask anyone. Games played would be a factor if Huet's numbers were based on a statistically small sample size, they are not. No one questions that Brodeur is a workhorse, more so then Huet. Huet needs more games off then Brodeur to be effective. I think Brodeur is the better goalie, mainly because he has proven he can step up in the playoffs. But I would also say that Brodeur has also had the benefit of playing behind one of the best defensive teams in the league. Same with Pascal... By the way, the game winning percentages are pretty comparable too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Those 4 right there show me that statistics do not tell the whole story. Goaltending is not all about stats. Does anybody here think Tim Thomas is the best goalie in the league? That Pascal Leclaire is the 3rd best goalie in the league? Osgood? Legace? Some goalies are a product of their system. Manny Fernandez in Minnesota looked like an All-Star, in Boston...not so much. Patrick Lalime was a top 5 goalie when he played in Ottawa. How has he done since he left there? Roman Chechmanek had the best stats in the league one year....would you want him in your net in a big game? How is Vesa Toskala doing in Toronto as opposed to San Jose? How did Andrew Raycroft do after his rookie year on a stacked Bruins team? etc etc etc. Some teams trap, some teams give up a lot of shots, but they are from the outside resulting in a high SV%. Do you think Leclaire and Thomas are better than Huet? Would you trade them straight up for him? Because the stats say you should. Huet is good, but he is nowhere near the category of Brodeur and Luongo. He is not above criticism and he has not been as good this year as he was in his first 60+ games with the Habs when he was dominant. Maybe the league figured him out, maybe he was playing over his head, who knows. Everytime he leaves his net...I cringe, that won't change. I agree with you in principle, but the save percentage is the most representative of the goalie's performance. GAA is a team stat, imo. So is shutouts. Thomas has been awesome this year actually. Would I trade Huet for him, no, but I can tell you that no one in Boston thinks he is the problem on the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAKS-AVENUE Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I agree with you in principle, but the save percentage is the most representative of the goalie's performance. GAA is a team stat, imo. So is shutouts. Thomas has been awesome this year actually. Would I trade Huet for him, no, but I can tell you that no one in Boston thinks he is the problem on the team. I think Huet is great, and he's finally starting to get a team that can score and play great defense in front of him. Sure his flubs have been brutal lately but he seems just as bummed after them as you guys do. At least we still win the games. He can't save everything and not every goal scored on him needs to be picture perfect. As for stats ? Big deal. We have the number one power-play, and only by 1 % better then the teams under us. Man, L.A Kings almost have a chance, a real good chance at being number 1 power-play with a couple of goals and they are at the bottom in the standings. Like Gainey says the Habs are a much more balanced team this year and so is Huet. He can flub a goal in the third but why are we focusing on that when he stoned Kovalchuk point blank and Hossa twice in the last minute of the third and Hossa twice in over time and then again in the shoot-out. That's what we need to focus on. Nobody's perfect and in my eyes Huet has been pretty stellar. I can't wait to see him in some intense play-off games this year. I think his play still has another level that we haven't seen yet. Same with Koivu(he's not dead yet), Komi, Markov, both titteez. Why can't we talk about the good things in these forums. It's always bashing and complaining, whining and crying. It gets to be quite sickening after a while. Geez I bet if we won 81 games, all shut-outs one year you guys would dwell on the one game we lost 2-1 and let a goal in because Brisebois was giving his nuts a scratch. Lighten up boys. It's January, we have a hold on a play-off spot and Allfie is out in Ottawa. LET'S GO CATCH THE SENS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 (edited) I agree with you in principle, but the save percentage is the most representative of the goalie's performance. GAA is a team stat, imo. So is shutouts. Thomas has been awesome this year actually. Would I trade Huet for him, no, but I can tell you that no one in Boston thinks he is the problem on the team. I don't think Save % is the be all and end all either. Some teams allow a ton of perimeter shots which pad stats. (I am not saying Huet has not earned his %) I have watched plenty of games where one team has 18 shots and 10 scoring chances and scores 2 goals and the other team has 35 shots and 10 scoring chances and scores 3 goals. Same amount of scoring opportunities but one goalie has a SV% of .888 and the other .914. A long clearing attempt counts the same as a breakaway on the shot clock. I have watched Thomas and he benefits from Boston changing their philosophy under Julien. He still lets in bad goals and although he has improved he still over pursues the puck and forces himself to make acrobatic saves. There are a ton of goalies I would want before him. With all that said, you are right it is still the best indicator out of all of the goaltender stats. Edited January 18, 2008 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I'm also a Huet defender. Obviously he is no Luongo or Broduer; those guys are the great goalies of their era. Huet is more of a Jeff Hackett type: a 'very good' rather than great goalie, in the upper echeolon of that second tier of NHL starters, the tier after the Luongos and (before this season) Kiprusoffs and Brodeurs. Nothing wrong with that. Yes, he is a terrible puck-handler and he is not a terribly intimidating presence. I would say that he is respected rather than feared. Sure, it'd be nice to have a Roy, a goalie that has the opposition half-beaten before the game starts, but with Huet we have a chance to win every night, and that's fundamentally the job of the #1 goalie. As for the idea that he's been 'shaky' this season, I think people are confusing 'shaky' with not being dominating. You want shaky? Try Theodore or Aebischer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I'm also a Huet defender. Obviously he is no Luongo or Broduer; those guys are the great goalies of their era. Huet is more of a Jeff Hackett type: a 'very good' rather than great goalie, in the upper echeolon of that second tier of NHL starters, the tier after the Luongos and (before this season) Kiprusoffs and Brodeurs. Nothing wrong with that. Yes, he is a terrible puck-handler and he is not a terribly intimidating presence. I would say that he is respected rather than feared. Sure, it'd be nice to have a Roy, a goalie that has the opposition half-beaten before the game starts, but with Huet we have a chance to win every night, and that's fundamentally the job of the #1 goalie. As for the idea that he's been 'shaky' this season, I think people are confusing 'shaky' with not being dominating. You want shaky? Try Theodore or Aebischer. exactly. But people in here are used to have Roy in the nets. It's the same as if the New-England Patriots spend the next 12 years without winning a Super Bowl with a quaterback like McNabb (he's no Favre, Manning or Brady). N-E fans would always bring back the good ol' time when their QB position was their main weapon... And about the goal, can we stop to blame Huet and just say : "COMON Huet, give it to Hamrlik ! And COMON Hamrlik, you know how Huet is with the puck, GO GET IT by yourself! " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 exactly. But people in here are used to have Roy in the nets. It's the same as if the New-England Patriots spend the next 12 years without winning a Super Bowl with a quaterback like McNabb (he's no Favre, Manning or Brady). N-E fans would always bring back the good ol' time when their QB position was their main weapon... And about the goal, can we stop to blame Huet and just say : "COMON Huet, give it to Hamrlik ! And COMON Hamrlik, you know how Huet is with the puck, GO GET IT by yourself! " If Huet played the puck it was a penalty. It was over the goal line and not in his "Goalie can only touch the puck here because of stupid rule change zone" Unless I saw it wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I'm also a Huet defender. Obviously he is no Luongo or Broduer; those guys are the great goalies of their era. Huet is more of a Jeff Hackett type: a 'very good' rather than great goalie, in the upper echeolon of that second tier of NHL starters, the tier after the Luongos and (before this season) Kiprusoffs and Brodeurs. Nothing wrong with that. Yes, he is a terrible puck-handler and he is not a terribly intimidating presence. I would say that he is respected rather than feared. Sure, it'd be nice to have a Roy, a goalie that has the opposition half-beaten before the game starts, but with Huet we have a chance to win every night, and that's fundamentally the job of the #1 goalie. As for the idea that he's been 'shaky' this season, I think people are confusing 'shaky' with not being dominating. You want shaky? Try Theodore or Aebischer. I don't think he has been shaky unless we are talking about the shootout in which he definitley has been. He is a good to great goalie depending on the day. But he made a bad judgement last night, people called it out, end of story. He rebounded well from it. The fact that most of the critical comments were during the heat of the game should be taken into account. If anybody was watching that with their buddies in a bar everybody would have groaned or complained. That is the extent of most of the critical comments on the board. When he came up big in OT almost everybody gave him credit. We will look back in 5-10 years and appreciate what he did in between the Theodore/Price eras just like people appreciate but don't love Hackett. (everything I just wrote changes if he takes us to the Cup ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 what a goal by Big #### !!! if this is not #1 of the week in the top 10, don't know what it will be. Damned Rick Nash... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAKS-AVENUE Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Damned Rick Nash... No shiit......Wow I just saw that now on tsn. Much like titz goal only way wayWAY BETTER!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 He is not above criticism and he has not been as good this year as he was in his first 60+ games with the Habs when he was dominant. Maybe the league figured him out, maybe he was playing over his head, who knows. Everytime he leaves his net...I cringe, that won't change. This is very true. He pretty much carried us to the playoffs two years ago, this time the skaters are doing the carrying (which is better all things considered). People say Huet gives us a chance to win, that is true, but he also gives us a chance to lose. He hasn't really stolen games this year like Price did against Toronto, but he has coughed up points several times. I'd say at the moment Huet is in the top 10-15 goalies in the league. I would probably trade him straight up for Leclaire, I know Columbus definitely wouldn't like that trade. Goalies off the top of my head who are better than him at the moment: Brodeur Luongo Kiprusoff Toskala Dipietro Lundqvist (he's been very shaky recently, this could be iffy) Garon (great season so far) Bryzgalov Giguere Turco Vokoun Lehtonen Hasek Legace Backstrom Osgood Miller (not his best year) Nabokov OK, Huet is definitely not worse than all of these guys, but if you ranked them all in order I think I'd put him around 10-15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Harry Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 (edited) He's competitive with all these goalies except your top 2. None of them are perfect and all have their off days and brain cramps. Give Huet a break, we could be A LOT worse in the netminder dept. (see toronto), and it's difficult to get much better. He's keeping the habs in there night in and night out, and the improved team is the difference that seals the deal. Nothing wrong there. Edited January 19, 2008 by Dirty Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 (edited) Goalies off the top of my head who are better than him at the moment: Brodeur Luongo Kiprusoff Toskala Dipietro Lundqvist (he's been very shaky recently, this could be iffy) Garon (great season so far) Bryzgalov Giguere Turco Vokoun Lehtonen Hasek Legace Backstrom Osgood Miller (not his best year) Nabokov OK, Huet is definitely not worse than all of these guys, but if you ranked them all in order I think I'd put him around 10-15. The ones in bold are the guys I think are better than Huet. The other ones have their issues as well. I am not sold on Nabokov or Backstrom until I see what they can do in a different situation (ie. team) Edited January 19, 2008 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 (edited) He's competitive with all these goalies except your top 2. None of them are perfect and all have their off days and brain cramps. Give Huet a break, we could be A LOT worse in the netminder dept. (see toronto), and it's difficult to get much better. He's keeping the habs in there night in and night out, and the improved team is the difference that seals the deal. Nothing wrong there. I'm not trying to hate on Huet, I'm just trying to establish how good he really is. There are people here who say he's among the league's elite, and there are others that say he's garbage. He's in between those. The ones in bold are the guys I think are better than Huet. The other ones have their issues as well. I am not sold on Nabokov or Backstrom until I see what they can do in a different situation (ie. team) Alright, so you put 9 ahead of Huet, which would put him at 10 like I said. I would say that Toskala has been a better goalie this season, playing on the defensively-poor Leafs he stole them a bunch of games, and he was good in San Jose before that. Bryzgalov is unproven but his season has been superior to Huet's since he's been starting. Edit: I forgot to put Leclaire on the list, he's unproven as well but his season so far has been better than Huet's. So all in all I think Huet is above average, but definitely not elite. Edited January 19, 2008 by Neech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 I'm not trying to hate on Huet, I'm just trying to establish how good he really is. There are people here who say he's among the league's elite, and there are others that say he's garbage. He's in between those. Alright, so you put 9 ahead of Huet, which would put him at 10 like I said. I would say that Toskala has been a better goalie this season, playing on the defensively-poor Leafs he stole them a bunch of games, and he was good in San Jose before that. Bryzgalov is unproven but his season has been superior to Huet's since he's been starting. Edit: I forgot to put Leclaire on the list, he's unproven as well but his season so far has been better than Huet's. So all in all I think Huet is above average, but definitely not elite. I agree. He is bunched in with a bunch of other goalies that have issues as well. He is average to above average IMO. I think Cucumber had it bang on when he compared him to Hackett. Great some nights, Average most nights terrible some nights. His brutal games seem to offset his brilliant games with a bunch of solid performances in between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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