Spending Money - Part Deux

[dlbalr]

Is Cote out of the game plan for the Habs? and why so abruptly? he got injured and sent down and never recalled... last I heard was COTE felt the habs didnt want him anymore not the other way around!

Was he included in the 8 QO's? cause he could be the only D ready to take the 6th or 7th spot if Dandy is moved

Cote is most definitely out of the game plan for the Habs, and in all likelihood, any other NHL team. He was for the most part, a subpar defenceman on a horrific farm team and has been for a few years now (he was the #4/5 guy last year.) Cote, at 25, is eligible for Group 6 free agency (unrestricted) and I'm sure will not be retained. I expect him to be in Europe next season.

[Ecurb]

I don't like the Nylander idea strictly because of that contract. But this is a thoughtful and thought-provoking post - kudos. Stoll is a very attractive option, although, as you say, it all depends on what we send back. In any case, we might all be giving up on Mats a tad early...

Thank you.

Lets hope plan A becomes a reality and plan B becomes a distant

memory

[tokyohabs]

Rolston testing the market?

Assuming Sundin is all smoke and mirrors, should we not be going hard after this guy? Or Stoll, if available, always liked him.

Be nice to add a better quality ctr than Smoke and really round out the top three lines.

[Peter Puck]

Streit is a nice player, but overrated. He benefited hugely from playing on the league's highest-scoring team and his physical and defensive games are nonexistent. He should be resigned for maybe $2 mil, but some other organization will likely pay him over $3 because of his gaudy numbers, and we shouldn't get involved in any kind of bidding war for him. If he's smart, he'll take less money to stay in his present, perfect situation. Since most hockey players aren't that smart, I expect him to take the money and run. And we will no doubt put someone else in his slot with minimal damage; because if we could replace Sheldon Souray, a genuinely elite PP specialist, we bloody well can replace the Swiss Miss.

I think Streit was an extremely important part of our power play and most people underate this importance. He was the best on the team at holding the puck in at the point and one of the best at carrying the puck into the offensize zone.

I don't understand the argument that since Streit replaced Souray sucessfully it follows that Streit is easily replaced. I have heard it quite a few times. To me it can be paraphrased by saying that since Streit is so good he must be easy to replace.

Say what you like, this guy was the third highest scorer on the team last year in his third year in the league.

Having said all that, I think that Gainey is planning to sign either Sundin or Hossa at 7 or 8 million. His deal with the leafs may or may not give us some cap relief (releaf?). But if he has to settle for Hossa he needs the cap room. This is why I think he is reluctantly letting Streit go.

[tokyohabs]

Peter, you have some very good points, legitimate things about Streit's very nice assets. Fine puck-mover, smart player, intelligent passing, consistent offensive threat on the pp, better than average skater.

However, after watching him get bulldozed and obliterated by Boston and Flyers, to the point where he absolutely could not get anything on the pp going, as well as his season-long poor and clueless defense in general (and he now says he insists on playing d exclusively next year???), I think most people realise his stats are going to lead to an inflated offer, and he isn't necessarily a guy who is going to bring us much beyond the second round. Easy Ryder expressed the same concerns.

I haven't seen the sophism of 'he-replaced-Souray-therefore-he-can-be replaced', which isn't legit. It's about progression while still staying under the cap enough to make the big move when we are that close. Streit was a massive upgrade on Souray at that position, at that price.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I think Streit was an extremely important part of our power play and most people underate this importance. He was the best on the team at holding the puck in at the point and one of the best at carrying the puck into the offensize zone.

I don't understand the argument that since Streit replaced Souray sucessfully it follows that Streit is easily replaced. I have heard it quite a few times. To me it can be paraphrased by saying that since Streit is so good he must be easy to replace.

Say what you like, this guy was the third highest scorer on the team last year in his third year in the league.

Having said all that, I think that Gainey is planning to sign either Sundin or Hossa at 7 or 8 million. His deal with the leafs may or may not give us some cap relief (releaf?). But if he has to settle for Hossa he needs the cap room. This is why I think he is reluctantly letting Streit go.

You make a good point. I suppose the 'Souray was replaceable therefore Streit is' argument is indeed specious.

All the same, Streit is NOT irreplaceable. Very few players are, and he's simply not that good - that's really what the Souray example illustrates. My real point is that, in a cap system, good teams, teams with depth, can and do find a way to replace players like that. Streit is a good second-tier offensive defenceman with absymal holes in his defensive game and zero physical presence: essentially, a more versatile version of Patrice Brisebois. If we can't find the wherewithal to compensate for his absence, then we aren't the deep, talented team we think we are. It's the bad teams that are caught in this vicious cycle where they have to overpay to keep players of that calibre.

It is legitimate to ask whether we have enough remaining defencemen who can make an effective outlet pass. Hammer and Markov, yes; the rest are questionable. Not too worried about the point shot. Again, good teams adjust to these things. My breezy attitude to Streit's departure is rooted in the belief that we are in fact a good deep team that can survive the loss of a defensively hapless second-tier offensive defenceman.

Look at it this way: would the Red Wings go belly up because they lost a Mark Streit? I doubt it, especially if they'd already added a Tanguay and also had a ton of young D coming down the pipeline. That's because they're a truly strong organization. I know we're not the Wings - yet - but the same principle applies.

Edited June 28, 2008 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[Peter Puck]

You make a good point. I suppose the 'Souray was replaceable therefore Streit is' argument is indeed specious.

All the same, Streit is NOT irreplaceable. Very few players are, and he's simply not that good - that's really what the Souray example illustrates. My real point is that, in a cap system, good teams, teams with depth, can and do find a way to replace players like that. Streit is a good second-tier offensive defenceman with absymal holes in his defensive game and zero physical presence: essentially, a more versatile version of Patrice Brisebois. If we can't find the wherewithal to compensate for his absence, then we aren't the deep, talented team we think we are. It's the bad teams that are caught in this vicious cycle where they have to overpay to keep players of that calibre.

It is legitimate to ask whether we have enough remaining defencemen who can make an effective outlet pass. Hammer and Markov, yes; the rest are questionable. Not too worried about the point shot. Again, good teams adjust to these things. My breezy attitude to Streit's departure is rooted in the belief that we are in fact a good deep team that can survive the loss of a defensively hapless second-tier offensive defenceman.

Look at it this way: would the Red Wings go belly up because they lost a Mark Streit? I doubt it, especially if they'd already added a Tanguay and also had a ton of young D coming down the pipeline. That's because they're a truly strong organization. I know we're not the Wings - yet - but the same principle applies.

Well I do agree that he is not irreplaceable. Certainly we won't go belly up if he leaves. But I think that can be said about everyone on our team. I don't put much stock in the criticism of his playoff performance (I'm not saying you said this CC).

He had a weak 12 games stretch. There are rumours he was injured. It was his first taste of playoff hockey. He also scored one of the biggest (and prettiest) goals we had in the playoffs. Finally his playoffs were not as bad as Price's but you don't see many people calling for Carey to be traded.

If we can get either Hossa and Sundin (either or whioch will cost at least 7.5 million) then we need to let Streit go because we can't afford him. On the other hand if neither Hossa nor Sundin comes here, then I think Bob will want to keep Streit. The problem is of course that by then Streit will have received inflated offers and maybe will have even signed elsewhere.

[Seb]

Call him an offensive defensemen, but last season he was a 4th line PP specialist. And by specialist, I mean a guy who could handle the puck at the point and do what Jarvis told him to do. Let him walk, Sergei can do it too.

[lazy26]

Call him an offensive defensemen, but last season he was a 4th line PP specialist. And by specialist, I mean a guy who could handle the puck at the point and do what Jarvis told him to do. Let him walk, Sergei can do it too.

If you ever saw him play on London's PP, you might even conclude that Sergei can do it better.

[Peter Puck]

If you ever saw him play on London's PP, you might even conclude that Sergei can do it better.

I watched Sergei play the point on London's PP many times. I agree he might be a great replacement. But playing in the NHL is quite a bit different than the OHL. Also Sergei's point shot is not as good as Streit's. We tried Sergei on the PP point a few times last year and I don't remember any goals.

[lazy26]

I watched Sergei play the point on London's PP many times. I agree he might be a great replacement. But playing in the NHL is quite a bit different than the OHL. Also Sergei's point shot is not as good as Streit's. We tried Sergei on the PP point a few times last year and I don't remember any goals.

True enough, but give him time. He won't be the next Streit or Souray bomb from the point, but he'll be a worthy replacement in a different way.

All in my humble opinion of course!

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Can't we always just throw Kovalev on the point? Just asking.

[JoeLassister]

Can't we always just throw Kovalev on the point? Just asking.

now with Tanguay, i'd say YES !!!

[BTH]

I think Streit was an extremely important part of our power play and most people underate this importance. He was the best on the team at holding the puck in at the point and one of the best at carrying the puck into the offensize zone.

I don't understand the argument that since Streit replaced Souray sucessfully it follows that Streit is easily replaced. I have heard it quite a few times. To me it can be paraphrased by saying that since Streit is so good he must be easy to replace.

Say what you like, this guy was the third highest scorer on the team last year in his third year in the league.

Having said all that, I think that Gainey is planning to sign either Sundin or Hossa at 7 or 8 million. His deal with the leafs may or may not give us some cap relief (releaf?). But if he has to settle for Hossa he needs the cap room. This is why I think he is reluctantly letting Streit go.

Streit was definitely a good player for us last year but I definitely don't think he was the best at keeping the puck in the zone. I would say that Markov was amazing at doing that and that Streit was below average. What I liked most about him was his shot-passes that guys like Higgins managed to deflect in a couple of times. He makes lot of stupid decisions but once in a while he can make a truly incredible play.

I do think we are going to be able to replace - maybe not with another 62 point scorer, but with someone solid. if losing Streit is the price of signing Sundin, Hossa, Nagy, Demitra, Rolston or Stillman I have no objections.

[simonus]

Can't we always just throw Kovalev on the point? Just asking.

Kovalev was so beautiful setting up in the faceoff circle that I'd be loathe to move him.

[Habsfan]

I think it's safe to say the Habs will not make an offer to Hossa. They just picked up Tanguay and we don't need another winger. WE need a big centreman.

[dlbalr]

A little later than I originally intended to have this put up, but last night, I finally threw together an article breaking down the numbers. Long story short, a reasonable number to spend on UFA's will be between 7-8 million, after factoring in RFA's callups, and emergency funds.

http://www.habsworld.net/article.php?id=1686

[saskhab]

A little later than I originally intended to have this put up, but last night, I finally threw together an article breaking down the numbers. Long story short, a reasonable number to spend on UFA's will be between 7-8 million, after factoring in RFA's callups, and emergency funds.

http://www.habsworld.net/article.php?id=1686

That sounds about right. That's one of the reasons why I include rookies in my running total... just so people have an idea what the emergency callups cost, or in case someone makes the team unexepctedly.

[saskhab]

Cap update:

Andrei Kostitsyn signs for 3 years, at $3.25m per season.

Previous cap hit: $46,134,634.00 for 22 active and signed players

Add Kostitsyn: $3,250,000.00

Minus Brock Trotter: ($875,000.00)

New total: $48,509,634.00 for 22 active and signed players

Trotter was included previously because he ended the season with the team, but now that there's a roster crunch (maximum of 21 skaters, 23 players total) he's the first to go.

New projected roster:

Tanguay - Plekanec - Kovalev

A Kostitsyn - Koivu - S Kostitsyn

Higgins - Lapierre - Latendresse

Begin - Chipchura - Kostopolous

D'Agostini, Stewart

Markov - Komisarek

Hamrlik - Bouillon

Dandenault - Valentenko

Carle

Price

(empty)

That leaves the Habs with just shy of $8.2m in available cap space with only a second goaltender needed to be signed.

Other random roster notes is that the Habs qualified all of their RFA's except for enforcer Jimmy Bonneau, who is now a UFA. Also, that long pending Olivier Latendresse for Cory Urquhart swap did become official sometime after the season ended, as Urquhart was listed as a UFA in Phoenix's list on the NHL's official list (they did not qualify him). So, O. Latendresse is now one of the players added to the Habs' contract total. They have 30 players under contract for 2008-09 currently, with 50 being the maximum allowed.

[habs rule]

Good Work!

[saskhab]

The Laraque effect:

Pretty simple here. Laraque joins the team, D'Agostini gets demoted. Laraque's cap hit? $1.5 million. D'Agostini's was $0.5m. Cap hit goes up by $1m total.

New total: $49,509,634.00 based on the following roster...

Tanguay - Plekanec - Kovalev

A Kostitsyn - Koivu - S Kostitsyn

Higgins - Lapierre - Laraque

Latendresse - Bégin - Kostopolous

Chipchura, Stewart

Markov - Komisarek

Hamrlik - Bouillon

Dandenault - Valentenko

Carle

Price

I'll add Denis' total if we find out his contract value before Halak signs a new deal. Denis at least gives us a somewhat realistic backup to count, since before today Loic Lacasse was the only other goaltender we had under contract aside from Price. With the signings of Denis and Desjardins, we're up to 34 players under contract out of a possible 50.

Edited July 4, 2008 by saskhab

[dlbalr]

To put a slightly different perspective on things, here's a number with simply what will likely be the guaranteed spots for next year (and yes, Dandenault is there too.) No guesswork as to what callups could be, although I like that method as well.

Player Cap Number

Steve Begin $1,057,000

Francis Bouillon $1,875,000

Jassen Cullimore $639,667

Mathieu Dandenault $1,725,000

Roman Hamrlik $5,500,000

Christopher Higgins $1,700,000

Mike Komisarek $1,700,000

Andrei Kostitsyn $3,250,000

Sergei Kostitsyn $816,667

Tom Kostopoulos $900,000

Saku Koivu $4,750,000

Alexei Kovalev $4,500,000

Maxim Lapierre $687,500

Georges Laraque $1,500,000

Guillaume Latendresse $850,000

Andrei Markov $5,750,000

Tomas Plekanec $1,600,000

Carey Price $2,200,000

Tony Salmelainen $125,000

Alex Tanguay $5,250,000

Equalling a grand total of:

$46,375,834

[Jean]

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?tea...amp;season=0809

This have us at 47.319 mil spent

[Habitforming]

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?tea...amp;season=0809

This have us at 47.319 mil spent

Actual Cap hit ...yes they are right.

[Seb]

So 47.319 mil with Gorges, O'Byrne and Halak (and Sundin ) to be signed.