REV-G Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 About two weeks ago Damien Cox of the Toronto Star was answering a question about team's goaltenders and he said that he thought Montreal had one of the better goalie duo's in the Eastern Conference. Before this season I thought the combination of Carey Price and Jaroslav Halak would be amazing, but I'm having second thoughts. I think Price has played as well as I thought he would, but I'm disappointed in Halak thus far. Carey Price has played 25 games, he's won 16 and lost 4 in regulation time. His GAA is 2.30 and S% is .921. He has won 64% of the games he played in. Halak has played in 14 games in regulation time, he's won 6 and lost 6. His GAA is 2.72 and S% is .908. He has won 42% of the games he played in. He has let in 8 goals in the past 5 periods he has played. Last year he spent time in the AHL as did Scott Clemenson with the Marlies. So this year both started as backups in the NHL, Clemenson with NJ. Since Brodeur has been hurt Clemenson has played in 23 games and won 15. So Price has won 64% of his games, Clemenson has won 65%, and Halak 42%. On Monday Carbonneau talked about seeing if Price could come back sooner than what was planned, and this is a result of how Halak has played. I thought Halak could push Price for the starting role and be a goalie other teams would want to trade for as their starting goalie. I don't know if that's the case anymore. I like Halak and I hope he can turn this around. But he needs to turn it around pretty soon, because for me, winning 42% of his games, he hasn't lived up to expectations so far. Based on his play this season, I wonder if we have overrated him? I hope not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 A few weeks ago he was playing great and was the only thing keeping us in the games while the team was stinking it up in front of him. I don't think your win percentage stat is very relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REV-G Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 A few weeks ago he was playing great and was the only thing keeping us in the games while the team was stinking it up in front of him. I don't think your win percentage stat is very relevant. I think the win percentage is the most glaring stat of all. When you're comparing three goalies and two of them have won 64% and 65% of their games and the third has won only 42%, with everything else pretty much the same, I think it emphasizes the fact that Halak has not done very well overall this season, compared with other goalies in similar situations.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 NHL goalies (as in, made an appearance in the NHL this year) younger than Jaroslav Halak: Steve Mason, Columbus Carey Price, Montreal Ondrej Pavelec, Atlanta Cory Schneider, Vancouver Jonathon Quick, Los Angeles Ben Bishop, St. Louis Simeon Varlamov, Washington Marek Schwarz, St. Louis Justin Pogge, Toronto Karri Ramo, Tampa Bay Daniel LaCosta, Columbus Goalies about a year or less older than Jaro include M-A Fleury, Josh Harding, and Cam Ward, plus a bunch of unspectuacular guys. Looking at this list, Jaro is definitely doing fine for his age. Sure, he's had some struggles very recently, but dear God... he's still quite young. Consider that only 3 of those guys are actually full time NHLers now (Mason, Price, and now Quick with Labarbera's trade).... Jaro is the 4th youngest NHL goalie. He's going to have his ups and downs. It's Price that is the freak... Jaro's progress is pretty normal, and actually still above average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Give Halak a few more games before we all start bitching... The Habs have 3 games in 4 nights coming up(Wed, Thurs, Saturday) Halak will probably get 2 of them and Denis will get the 3rd. If Halak can get the win in both of his games, I say mission accomplished for our number 2 goalie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I think the win percentage is the most glaring stat of all. When you're comparing three goalies and two of them have won 64% and 65% of their games and the third has won only 42%, with everything else pretty much the same, I think it emphasizes the fact that Halak has not done very well overall this season, compared with other goalies in similar situations.. When talking about an individual player, winning percentage is about the least revealing statistic there is. Goalies are just like pitchers in baseball - their record is only as good as the team supporting them. Look at Roger Clemens' last season in Houston. You look at his 7-6 record and you would think he was pitching very mediocre. Really, though, he was one of the NL's best pitchers. (I realize he was a cheater, but he was an good example for the point I was making.) I mean, think about a hypothetical situation. Two goalies on the same team have nearly identical numbers. One has a winning record, one does not. Does that mean the goalie with the winning record is better? Of course not. It means he gets better goal support. Honestly, aside from these last two poor performances, Halak's play was not significantly worse than Price's this season. Through December, their save percentages differed by .004 percent. That's a difference of one goal every 250 shots (roughly 8 games). On the flip side, during that same time period, the Habs averaged .16 more goals per game when Price started. That's a difference of one goal for every (roughly) 6 games. If you ask me, these numbers do not say that Halak has performed significantly worse than Price. I mean, a goal here and there and Halak could easily be at 8-4-1 instead of 6-6-1 and we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Every goalie, especially inexperienced ones, go through patches where they are fighting the puck. Anyone remember Price in early November? Three out of four games were as bad or worse than Halak's previous two. Halak is a good goalie, there is no reason to panic here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Halak is a good goalie, there is no reason to panic here. Thank you!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I think the win percentage is the most glaring stat of all. The low win percentage is a little deceptive. At Price's first injury, Halak was playing well but the team was still losing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Saku Koivu, now HE'S OVERRATED ! Nah, I'm kidding. Just wanted to piss off Colin a bit. IMO the most overrated players that the Habs have right now might be Weber. As weird as it sounds, I'm just throwing his name out there because he hasn't played an NHL game and many Habs fans (not pointing out anyone of these boards, just the general belief from the people I've spoken too) make him sound like the next Brian Leetch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy Ryder Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Overrated would be paying too much for a guy that doesn't worth the $$ in the league market. I would say Tanguay is the most overrated player in this team. I would pay myself some guts for 5.5 million. Bouillon is way overpaid for what he brings, so does Dandenault. Laraque too at 1.5 million is overrated. A rookie in never overrated before three years. It took 4 year to Guy Lafleur to blossom as a star. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Overrated would be paying too much for a guy that doesn't worth the $$ in the league market. I would say Tanguay is the most overrated player in this team. I would pay myself some guts for 5.5 million. Bouillon is way overpaid for what he brings, so does Dandenault. Laraque too at 1.5 million is overrated. A rookie in never overrated before three years. It took 4 year to Guy Lafleur to blossom as a star. I dunno. I think I don't share your definition of overrated. IMO the most overrated player on this team is Halak or maybe Higgins. I think that we, as Habs fans, see these players better than they are. I don't think that only the salary is used to describe/analyse/rate a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Tanguay had some ridiculous expectations attached to him when he got traded here. The way people described that his offensive game was going to explode in Montreal implied something along the lines that he was gonna score 100+ points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 It would be nice if we could stop throwing players and coaches under the bus after a couple of bad outings. Halak is a wonderful story drafted 230 th or something in the echl 2 years ago is now a backup to a goalie who will probably be in the hall of fame. Yep lets toss him out now, because the team in front of him let him down and he had a couple of not so good outings. makes perfect sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Saku Koivu, now HE'S OVERRATED ! Nah, I'm kidding. Just wanted to piss off Colin a bit. IMO the most overrated players that the Habs have right now might be Weber. As weird as it sounds, I'm just throwing his name out there because he hasn't played an NHL game and many Habs fans (not pointing out anyone of these boards, just the general belief from the people I've spoken too) make him sound like the next Brian Leetch. You're overrated! As to answering the question: "Is one of our players overrated?" No. More than one of our players is overrated. Depending on who you talk to, actually, every player is overrated. I mean, come on. Habs fans. When you're acquired by the Habs, you're The Next Saviour. After three shifts you're a bum and need to be run out of town. You know who was underrated, though? Mike Ribeiro. Should never have traded him. He was The Franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 You're overrated! As to answering the question: "Is one of our players overrated?" No. More than one of our players is overrated. Depending on who you talk to, actually, every player is overrated. I mean, come on. Habs fans. When you're acquired by the Habs, you're The Next Saviour. After three shifts you're a bum and need to be run out of town. You know who was underrated, though? Mike Ribeiro. Should never have traded him. He was The Franchise. Stopping afther the bold, you are right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Every single rookie who has not played for us yet is vastly overrated on this board. I've seen it over and over... D'Agostini's arc is typical, young hotshot comes up and plays out of his mind for a few games, then - gasp! - starts to fade into the woodwork. But every time this happens, the players is greeted with breathless enthusiasm. The path of true love never did run smooth, and neither does the path of development for young hockey players. Halak's no different, but I am kind of disappointed that he hasn't shown the form that I remember him having when he replaced Huet down the stretch in 2006. Do we give up on him? Duh...no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Stopping afther the bold, you are right... We'd already have won the Cup last year with him, I know. We'd only have one or two losses with him in the lineup this season. I think his greatest asset are his maturity and humility. He's also a brilliant leader who knows how to pull together a dressing room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Montreal fans make me laugh somtimes. A couple weeks ago people wanted to trade Halak for Gaborik or Bouwmeester, he was an elite young goalie who didn't get the chance to play in Montreal... now because of a couple of shaky performances (even the greatest of all times have had their fair share of bad games) he's a worthless piece of garbage who should be replaced with Marc Denis who would either be Europe right now - or waiting on the phone with Jocelyn Thibeault for the next injury replacement opportunity - if it weren't for us. Jaroslav Halak lost games if deserved to win earlier this season, and now it's the other way around. For ONCE our offense is saving our goaltender's butt, and people are complaining? Even though Halak has saved their butts a few times before? Halak is a very good young goalie with a brilliant path to the NHL where he dominated at every level. He's also done very well so far in the NHL, and everything indicates that he could at least become a good number 1B. As for statistics, they are not that relevant after only the few games he's played in. He's currently playing for .500, and has a respectable .908 especially when we consider he just had a couple of tougher outings. One good game, and he'll be back near .915. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 We'd already have won the Cup last year with him, I know. We'd only have one or two losses with him in the lineup this season. I think his greatest asset are his maturity and humility. He's also a brilliant leader who knows how to pull together a dressing room. If it wasn't for Morrow, he's be captain of the Stars right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzer Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Every single rookie who has not played for us yet is vastly overrated on this board. I've seen it over and over... Amen to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 If it wasn't for Morrow, he's be captain of the Stars right now. And therein lies a concise indictment of the Dallas Stars franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycing Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 You know who was underrated, though? Mike Ribeiro. Should never have traded him. He was The Franchise. I miss that guy, and Pierre Dagenais too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zowpeb Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 A couple things: With such a limited number of games it's easy to see how 8 goals in the past 5 periods will skew the stats. How is it he's had 14 starts and only holds a 6 and 6 record? He left 2 games that they came back to win??? Two more wins and/or good performances and his numbers would look pretty stellar for a back-up. IMHO Save Percentage is the number one stat you can judge a goalie with... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 And therein lies a concise indictment of the Dallas Stars franchise. I heard Ribeiro would maybe retire and replace Brett Hull right now, on Owner's demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 IMHO Save Percentage is the number one stat you can judge a goalie with... as far as I know it is that best and even that can be misleading. Even aside from its structural imperfection, Halak's small sample size makes any stat uninformative (as you basically pointed out). He's also played so little so far that observational evidence cannot really tell us how he will do over the remainder of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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