Lets have a little fun: Montreal drafting, what could have been: Questioning of drafting soo many US kids!

[Dalhabs]

Some of the euros that Detroit has doesnt play like euros. Who on this board wouldnt love to have Tomas Holmström on the habs?

[ForumGhost]

You truely are clueless. I never said or implied drafting nothing but a team of Andre the Giants because they are the biggest guys and are sure to win lots of Cups. Give me a break. Read my posts, think and then use some common sense.

When you have a team of small fast skilled guys at some point you need to compliment them with large players.

Look at other Cup winning teams and figure it out.

Gretz won lots of Cup, but who was there to compliment his skills every time? Messier He's so small eh, clearly no need for big guys.

Marty St Louis is small, fast, highly skilled. When TB won though was it St Loius who carried the team? No, it was Vinny He's so small too.

Who the Habs large player that complements and sticks up for the small highly skilled Habs players? MIA

Beleive me the Habs have enough under 6' 200 lbs Euro style players. What the Habs desperately need is some large North American players with size and toughness to compliment the smaller more skilled guys.

Oh but the Wings did it. BS. The Wings didnt win the Cup by simply collecting a bunch of Euro players, everybody suggesting so please stop being daft. The Wings managed to be the 1st team to win without the majority of the team being Canadian because they have the creme de la creme of Euro players. Huge freakin difference. The Habs may have close to the same number of Euros the Wings have, so what? The difference most members here seem to fail to understand is that the Wings have the best Euros from the top Euro hockey countries that all generally win medals every tourney. No other team has assembled such a talented pool of Euros and its not likely to happen again for a long time so stop suggesting amassing large quantities of Euros as the new recipe for winning.

You talk like size is the end-all decided factoring in determining a team and player's worth, but it's not nearly as important as you think it is. If your team can play with skill, then you can skate circles around teams with size. If you don't want me to use the example of the Wings, than let me direct you attention to the Caps. Another small, speedy 'Euro' team who's only real size is on their defense which sucks anyways.

Here's another example: the 2008 Habs. We have added no size (unless you count Laraque) last summer, so you can't blame our lack of size on our troubles this year because we are essentially the same team that dominated the regular season last year. I blame our downfall on a lot of factors, but lack of size is not one.

You want to add size, but who exactly can you add? Big, lumbering oafs? Here's a shocker for you: guys who are big AND good are rare. It would be nice to have a team full of Getzlafs and Franzens, but unless you can get your hands on one of these complete package players, you are sacrificing hockey skill for size. Have some size on your checking line obviously, but other than that, it's not a trade I'm willing to make.

[BCHabnut]

You talk like size is the end-all decided factoring in determining a team and player's worth, but it's not nearly as important as you think it is. If your team can play with skill, then you can skate circles around teams with size. If you don't want me to use the example of the Wings, than let me direct you attention to the Caps. Another small, speedy 'Euro' team who's only real size is on their defense which sucks anyways.

Here's another example: the 2008 Habs. We have added no size (unless you count Laraque) last summer, so you can't blame our lack of size on our troubles this year because we are essentially the same team that dominated the regular season last year. I blame our downfall on a lot of factors, but lack of size is not one.

You want to add size, but who exactly can you add? Big, lumbering oafs? Here's a shocker for you: guys who are big AND good are rare. It would be nice to have a team full of Getzlafs and Franzens, but unless you can get your hands on one of these complete package players, you are sacrificing hockey skill for size. Have some size on your checking line obviously, but other than that, it's not a trade I'm willing to make.

Sometimes those lumbering oafs turn into sometihing more. I'll take Byfuglyen (spelling) on my team any day.

[Wamsley01]

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of fight in the dog.

The Bruins have a lot of small forwards, yet everybody assumes they are big because

Lucic runs around unimpeded and hammers anybody he wants.

Kessel - 6'

Kobasew - 6'

Krejci - 6'

Recchi - 5' 10"

Ryder - 6'

Savard - 5'10"

Outside of Bergeron, all of the Bruins skill forwards are short (depending on what you view Wheeler's high end).

And their size comes from replaceable parts like Axelsson, Bitz, Thornton and Yelle.

Their D also contains Wideman, Montador, Ference and Hunwick who are 6' or below.

This whole discussion about size is ridiculous. For every soft small player there are a ton of Mike Richards,

St. Louis' etc. This type of thinking is what nearly destroyed the NHL in the 1990s. It lead to a guy like St. Louis

being virtually ignored. He was undrafted and struggling to make the league until he was 25.

Lets take a look at the defending Stanley Cup Champions

6' or under

Datsyuk

Zetterberg

Rafalski

Cleary

Hudler

Holmstrom

Filppula

Kronwall

Draper

Lebda

Chelios

Maltby

Lidstrom one of the best shut down defenders of all-time is not physical and is listed at 6'1".

Players like Chelios (6'), Holmstrom (6'), Kronwall (6'), Draper (5'9") and Maltby (6') all have the

reputation of playing big, yet all are average to small players.

Winning is not about size, it is about determination, willing to sacrifice your body, willingness to

continue to go into the corners even though they know they are going to get pounded, it is about

a players compete level.

Mike Richards is 5'11" and 195 pounds, Tomas Plekanec is 5'11" and 194 pounds. You cannot convince

me that Richards has better offensive skills, but one player's compete level can never be questioned

and one referenced himself as "playing like a little girl".

This whole conversation has devolved into petty nitpicking. You draft the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE regardless

of size or position. If you have a glut of great defensemen, they can be packaged for an elite centre or

whatever other position you require.

[ForumGhost]

Agree 100%.

[alexstream]

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of fight in the dog.

CHAD KILGER

[BCHabnut]

CHAD KILGER

Ahhh,

I loled when I read your reply.

[hab29RETIRED]

Some of the euros that Detroit has doesnt play like euros. Who on this board wouldnt love to have Tomas Holmström on the habs?

I'd take Holstrom and Franzen over any players on the habs!

[hab29RETIRED]

You truely are clueless. I never said or implied drafting nothing but a team of Andre the Giants because they are the biggest guys and are sure to win lots of Cups. Give me a break. Read my posts, think and then use some common sense.

When you have a team of small fast skilled guys at some point you need to compliment them with large players.

Look at other Cup winning teams and figure it out.

Gretz won lots of Cup, but who was there to compliment his skills every time? Messier He's so small eh, clearly no need for big guys.

Marty St Louis is small, fast, highly skilled. When TB won though was it St Loius who carried the team? No, it was Vinny He's so small too.

Who the Habs large player that complements and sticks up for the small highly skilled Habs players? MIA

Beleive me the Habs have enough under 6' 200 lbs Euro style players. What the Habs desperately need is some large North American players with size and toughness to compliment the smaller more skilled guys.

Oh but the Wings did it. BS. The Wings didnt win the Cup by simply collecting a bunch of Euro players, everybody suggesting so please stop being daft. The Wings managed to be the 1st team to win without the majority of the team being Canadian because they have the creme de la creme of Euro players. Huge freakin difference. The Habs may have close to the same number of Euros the Wings have, so what? The difference most members here seem to fail to understand is that the Wings have the best Euros from the top Euro hockey countries that all generally win medals every tourney. No other team has assembled such a talented pool of Euros and its not likely to happen again for a long time so stop suggesting amassing large quantities of Euros as the new recipe for winning.

You are out to lunch.

Messier was around 6'1" and 205lb. Hardly phyciscally imposing considering he played much tougher then a lot of the 6'3"-6'4" 220lb+ guys he played against. He played much bigger then he was.

When TB won the cup, Lecavelier was 4th or 5th most important guy in their vistory.

As far as Detroit goes, there Euros they have are much tougher then the then anyone on the habs. I'd take Franzen and holstrom over most NA so-called power forwards. Have you seen the abuse these two take every game. The guys on Detroit are wiling to take abuse to succeed, the guys (candaian or Euro) are not.

One factor is the pussy inexperienced coaches the habs have had the past 10 years. For 10 years we've seen nothing but cycling behind the net without anybody willing to drive hard to the net. The habs have played a perimeter game no matter who they have. The one guy that started going hard to the net (Zednik), almost got his had taken off (By a cheap shot by a CDN player) and hasn't been the same player since. Have you seen the difference between Ryder during his good three years (i'll through last year out the window) and the Ryder on the Bruins. Almost same statisically, but he is playing much tougher and disciplined. Same thing with Rechhi. We had a much younger more procuctive Rechhi, but as an old man he is going harder to the net then he ever did with the habs.

Big difference between Julian now and Julian 3 years ago. But that is what happens when you hire a guy who has learned what it takes to succeed as a coach in the NHL, rather then hire a minor leagure to learn how to coach in the bigs.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

You are out to lunch.

Messier was around 6'1" and 205lb. Hardly phyciscally imposing considering he played much tougher then a lot of the 6'3"-6'4" 220lb+ guys he played against. He played much bigger then he was.

When TB won the cup, Lecavelier was 4th or 5th most important guy in their vistory.

As far as Detroit goes, there Euros they have are much tougher then the then anyone on the habs. I'd take Franzen and holstrom over most NA so-called power forwards. Have you seen the abuse these two take every game. The guys on Detroit are wiling to take abuse to succeed, the guys (candaian or Euro) are not.

One factor is the pussy inexperienced coaches the habs have had the past 10 years. For 10 years we've seen nothing but cycling behind the net without anybody willing to drive hard to the net. The habs have played a perimeter game no matter who they have. The one guy that started going hard to the net (Zednik), almost got his had taken off (By a cheap shot by a CDN player) and hasn't been the same player since. Have you seen the difference between Ryder during his good three years (i'll through last year out the window) and the Ryder on the Bruins. Almost same statisically, but he is playing much tougher and disciplined. Same thing with Rechhi. We had a much younger more procuctive Rechhi, but as an old man he is going harder to the net then he ever did with the habs.

Big difference between Julian now and Julian 3 years ago. But that is what happens when you hire a guy who has learned what it takes to succeed as a coach in the NHL, rather then hire a minor leagure to learn how to coach in the bigs.

Wamsley is right about the fight in the dog, although at the end of the day small players with heart risk getting physically pulverized more than big players with heart - one reason to want some size in your lineup. Nonetheless people make too much out of size. As for Euros, I'm soooo sick of this BS about 'soft Europeens.' I remember when the Senators traded Hossa for Heatley. Everyone was raving, now that they had a CANADIAN star they'd start winning. Well, that sure worked out. Hossa's done nothing and Heatley's gone on to a long string of Cups, right? Ovechkin, Koivu, the other Koivu, Forsberg, Sundin, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Holmstrom, Markov - none of these guys have 1/2 the heart or desire of Good Canadjun Boys like Chad Kilger and Kyle Wellwood. Right?

Hab29, I completely agree about the rookie coach business. Not only do the Habs have to suffer through the learning curve/growing pains of these coaches - but those coaches are also more vulnerable to being tuned out and disrespected by someone like Kovalev, who is likely distinctly unimpressed at being some unproven coach's guineau pig. Bring someone in here with a proven track record. Lucky for us, Hartley and Robinson, and to a lesser extent Crawford, qualify. It's time to stop the Habs being a training program for NHL coaches. Let some other franchise take the blows.