Jacques Martin new Habs head coach

[Colin]

Could another GM have done better in Montreal?

[Trizzak]

Could another GM have done better in Montreal?

We never did find out what could be had for Ryder, Halak and a 2nd rounder...

[habs rule]

We never did find out what could be had for Ryder, Halak and a 2nd rounder...

?

What has he done in the last 5 years to get all the praises ??

we're on the verge of losing our captain and his assistants with nothing but pacioretty to show up for. so he can shove his 5 year plan...I dont think it'll take Burke five years to bring TO back on track.

I know you like bob to a point of ordering people who dont share your opinion to shut up(heck, just like religion, politics...)

but I believe your man crush for Gainey relies more on his reputation(as a player) than actual facts( as a gm of course)

oh yeah he won a cup..10 years ago !!

whats frustrating me about gainey is his lack of action and creativity.

failed to attract UFAs

refusal to trade key players at trade deadline for picks or prospects

seems to be the one that got screwed on every trade he made not involving kovy and rivet

Lost beauchemin due to lack of knowledge of the rules

his team haven't pass the second round.

the only reason we made the playoffs this year is we got more wins against florida. 5 year plan = being equal to Florida ???

1. i never told you to shut up though it is not that bad an idea.

2. if respecting what Bob has done is a mancrush (a term that is way overused by a bunch of goofballs) then what it is when you simply hate with no reason.

3. this team was in compleat disarray and getting into the playoffs was a dream. 2nd rnd a wet dream.

4. any move made has a good side and a bad side your revisionist history is simply not worth arguing over. Also in order to make a trade you need 2 countem 2 people to accomplish it.

5. we are in great cap shape because of his plan. He can decide who he wants and who he doesn't. If we had signed all these ufa's you would be complaining that we have a bunch of overpaid assholes. You should be careful when you drive cause the road is in front of you not in your rear view mirror. :hlogo:

Edited June 11, 2009 by habs rule

[thib46]

?

1. i never told you to shut up though it is not that bad an idea.

2. if respecting what Bob has done is a mancrush (a term that is way overused by a bunch of goofballs) then what it is when you simply hate with no reason.

3. this team was in compleat disarray and getting into the playoffs was a dream. 2nd rnd a wet dream.

4. any move made has a good side and a bad side your revisionist history is simply not worth arguing over. Also in order to make a trade you need 2 countem 2 people to accomplish it.

5. we are in great cap shape because of his plan. He can decide who he wants and who he doesn't. If we had signed all these ufa's you would be complaining that we have a bunch of overpaid assholes. You should be careful when you drive cause the road is in front of you not in your rear view mirror. :hlogo:

Well written and completely accurate. Common sense for a change and something other than usual thrash about getting rid of Gainey.

[Trizzak]

?

Just poking fun at all those trade proposals armchair GMs had come up with over the years involving a superstar player coming to Montreal for Ryder, Halak, and a "throw-in" 2nd rounder.

[BTH]

What has he done in the last 5 years to get all the praises ??

we're on the verge of losing our captain and his assistants with nothing but pacioretty to show up for. so he can shove his 5 year plan...I dont think it'll take Burke five years to bring TO back on track.

I know you like bob to a point of ordering people who dont share your opinion to shut up(heck, just like religion, politics...)

but I believe your man crush for Gainey relies more on his reputation(as a player) than actual facts( as a gm of course)

oh yeah he won a cup..10 years ago !!

whats frustrating me about gainey is his lack of action and creativity.

failed to attract UFAs

refusal to trade key players at trade deadline for picks or prospects

seems to be the one that got screwed on every trade he made not involving kovy and rivet

Lost beauchemin due to lack of knowledge of the rules

his team haven't pass the second round.

the only reason we made the playoffs this year is we got more wins against florida. 5 year plan = being equal to Florida ???

What do you mean when you say that he has nothing to show for it? That he hasn't won a Cup yet? That's expecting too much.

People are making too much of his Five Year PLAN (not a Five Year Guarantee!). Every GM that gets hired has a plan, often a 5 year plan when they're starting a rebuild, and most of them never win the Cup.

The best way to measure his success is just to compare the team and our position to what it was 5 years ago. And it's faaaar better. Remember, we did win the East two seasons ago. This off-season has the potential to be horrific though so we actually could return to that perennial 7-12th position if things don't go well.

EDIT: Oh, and I really, really doubt he lost Beauchemin because he didn't understand the rules.

Edited June 11, 2009 by BTH

[MAK]

What do you mean when you say that he has nothing to show for it? That he hasn't won a Cup yet? That's expecting too much.

People are making too much of his Five Year PLAN (not a Five Year Guarantee!). Every GM that gets hired has a plan, often a 5 year plan when they're starting a rebuild, and most of them never win the Cup.

The best way to measure his success is just to compare the team and our position to what it was 5 years ago. And it's faaaar better. Remember, we did win the East two seasons ago. This off-season has the potential to be horrific though so we actually could return to that perennial 7-12th position if things don't go well.

EDIT: Oh, and I really, really doubt he lost Beauchemin because he didn't understand the rules.

Doubt all you want he's the one who said it.

as for the five year plan. It's not much about fans keeping talking about but management taking it out everytime Habs weren't doing good. " be patient" they said. " its a 5 year plan"

well...6 years and 5 seasons later we weren't quite competitive weren't we ?? and we're on the brink of losing many key components as we did with souray and streit.

what I was saying about bob having not much to show up for is who do we have as a legit star up front that we drafted??

MaxPAx: could be good but it'll take a few more years IMO.

no centre but Maxwell who isn't there yet and chipchura who'll be a 4th liner at best.

as for the we-finished-1st last year...

Ottawa choked, Pittsburgh gave up their last game to finish 2nd

nowadays Gms have to be proactive while Bob is conservative or not proactive enough.

[redondo]

I get so tired of these extremes, why does Gainey have to be either God or incompetent? Truth is he DID turn around this team and accomplished a lot over the past five years, and the other part of is that Andre Savard doesn't get nearly enough credit for the foundation he laid as far as turning this franchise around.

This past year was in so many aspects the worst case scenario and immediately people reach for the panic button. There's 30 other teams in the league, truth is sometimes you overachieve, and sometimes you underachieve, but in terms of adding/improving PERCEIVED (meaning what made sense at the time, not in rear-view mirror 9 months later) talent on the roster this year there has been incremental progress every year Bob was here.

Yes, he's made some mistakes, personally I'm not a fan of how he handles his free agents to name the most glaring one, but ask yourself who (of the realistic candidates not Bowman or Holland-type pipe dreams) would do a better job here?

[soflhabfan]

perhaps he's not as bad as perceived. however, he seems to sit on his hands (like leaf fans).as far as i'm concerned, when koivu and higgins came back from injuries, they were given their old slots back; it took several weeks for them to find their legs and their game. the younger fresher players had a diminished role. to me it seemed to throw the whole team off track. this is only my opinion, sitting here in south florida; but with the benefit of nhl centre ice, i was fortunate (???) enough to watch every habs game. and also was able to get a pulse from panther fans (all 50 of them) on their feelings about martin. not very kind.new owners, new coach, old gm. more typical craziness. there is no offseason when it comes to the habs. and thats the way it should be.

[kaos]

Perhaps Martin is the best person for the next coach.

Montreals about to lose much of the heart and skill of this team. Koivu, Tanguay, Komisarek, Kovalev and Higgins could all be gone.

Nobody is going to sign in Montreal, not any of the big name free agents anyways.

So why not a guy who can implement a boring trap system tha twill make this team competitive?

[tokyohabs]

I'd be astonished if Higgins leaves, unless we trade him.

The 'heart' and 'skill' of this team leave a lot to be desired.

Absolutely we should keep Tanguay. Komisarek might be Martin's kind of player, maybe we'll try to sign him after all? Can't see him with us though.

[MAK]

I'd be astonished if Higgins leaves, unless we trade him.

The 'heart' and 'skill' of this team leave a lot to be desired.

Absolutely we should keep Tanguay. Komisarek might be Martin's kind of player, maybe we'll try to sign him after all? Can't see him with us though.

Komi's ang Higgins' agent is a shark and will try to get his clients as much money as possible.

higgins is on the verge of UFA situation so Gainey will have to overpay in order to keep him long term.

I would love for Komisarek to stay but not at the money he's looking for.

[tokyohabs]

I meant short-term, as in someone signing him to an offer sheet over and above what he's making now. After the season ha had, good luck.

Komi is a goner, have stated so numerous times, only way he'll stay is if Martin makes him the centrepiece of something and begs Bob to resign him. Even then the price would be exorbitant.

Very curious now to see Martin bring in his type of people and who they'll be.

[Neech]

Higgins will be back, and I don't see how he'd get that big of a raise after a poor season.

Komi's gone, hopefully out west where he can't get pounded by Lucic as often.

[MAK]

Higgins will be back, and I don't see how he'd get that big of a raise after a poor season.

Komi's gone, hopefully out west where he can't get pounded by Lucic as often.

he's bound to become UFA after next season.

if gainey wants only to signhim to a one year deal there wont be much of a raise.

if Gainey wants him long term ( ie 5-6 years) Higgins might say no, I'm going UFA and make more money. So gainey would have to give more he's worth just to keep him longer.

[habs rule]

Komi's ang Higgins' agent is a shark and will try to get his clients as much money as possible.

higgins is on the verge of UFA situation so Gainey will have to overpay in order to keep him long term.

I would love for Komisarek to stay but not at the money he's looking for.

Would you please elaborate on the non shark agents so we can negotiate with them?

[Neech]

if Gainey wants him long term ( ie 5-6 years) Higgins might say no, I'm going UFA and make more money. So gainey would have to give more he's worth just to keep him longer.

Then Gainey will give him one year and let him earn that raise.

Or sign him to an in-between deal for 4ish years, and we end up with a consistent 30-30 guy on our team for a reasonable price, like what Andrei K should be right now.

[Chris]

30 30 guy ? The habs haven't had one of those in like 20 years. If your speaking about Higgins he has to do it more then once in his career to be considered a 30 30 guy.

Also he'll be on a checking line where he belongs. He'll play with Metropolit and a RW (Kosto) maybe.

I read somewhere yesterday was the "deadline" for Martin to pick his staff? Does anyone know if that happened.

[MAK]

Then Gainey will give him one year and let him earn that raise.

Or sign him to an in-between deal for 4ish years, and we end up with a consistent 30-30 guy on our team for a reasonable price, like what Andrei K should be right now.

and as per team policy, Gainwy wont deal with Higgins before the end of next season, that will rub higgs the wrong way and he will fetch his much deserved raise elswhere...and we'll be left with nothing because Gainey doesnt like to trade his pending UFAs...he likes to lose them for nothing.

[habs rule]

and as per team policy, Gainwy wont deal with Higgins before the end of next season, that will rub higgs the wrong way and he will fetch his much deserved raise elswhere...and we'll be left with nothing because Gainey doesnt like to trade his pending UFAs...he likes to lose them for nothing.

of course he does.

[tokyohabs]

Well, Higgins has certainly played like a top-6 forward the past couple of years, no? Coupled with his off-ice leadership and guidance for younger players, I can't imagine what Bob is waiting for. Much deserved raise...err...call us when it happens.

I am desperate for him to re-fashion himself and lead the team, but he has left an abyss between his potential and his actual performance - in all aspects of being a pro. If he wants the big $$$, surely at some point performance will play into it?

If he plays his way up to the second line this year, Bob should absolutely negotiate a longer-term deal during the season. Higgins could flourish in a defensively-responsible system like Martin might employ, what with his speed and skating ability. But he has a long way to go before a big extension. If he f*cks around again, it will be his last year and he's gone.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I'll be pleasantly surprised if it's not a one-year deal for Higgins - and I'd take that as a sign that he is quite interested in staying in Montreal. Two years would signify to me that he wants to prove himself to be worth the money but that he is in no special hurry to be UFA...because he's happy here. Well, I can dream.

I may be proven wrong, but I don't think we have to be as worried about losing Higgins to some ridiculous UFA contract offer as Komisarek. Komisarek is perceived as a truly elite, league-leading player in certain skill-sets (shot-blocking, hitting, 'shutdown' defensive play). There will always be idiots willing to overpay for a (quasi) one-dimensional player if he's elite in his specialized aspects of the game (c.f. Souray, a 5th defenceman but the league's best PP shot earns him 'star' money). But nobody in hockey thinks of Higgins as 'elite' in any facet of the game. He is a player who was tagged as a 'future star' 2-3 years ago but seems to have plateaued at a middling level. Therefore, barring some miraculous breakout - in which case he's worth the big money - we may be able to keep him going forward.

[Colin]

Yashin played well under Jacques Martin. Yashin has made grumblings about coming back to the NHL. Martin is now coach of the Canadiens. Would this be the surprise of the off-season?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Yashin played well under Jacques Martin. Yashin has made grumblings about coming back to the NHL. Martin is now coach of the Canadiens. Would this be the surprise of the off-season?

Ya know, given our dire condition at C, that's so crazy it just might work. With him and Kovalev we'd have the single most erratic line in all of hockey, that's a certainty!

Edited June 17, 2009 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[Chris]

Somew day people will realize that signing old, over the hill players who haven't done anything in years isn't a good option.

The team needs to turn over and get younger, not older and slower.