habs rule Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 What exactly about that article makes him a joke? Consistent regular season success like he had in Ottawa would certainly be an upgrade over what has transpired in the last 15 years, but is that enough? Can he suddenly find playoff success in Montreal? The most glaring thing about the hiring is his inability to beat Toronto. It's tough to swallow hiring a coach that is good at losing to Toronto. Hopefully he'll be able to overcome Toronto, given their current state. How come Jacques gets crucified for not winning the cup im Ottawa? Has anybody looked at how they have done since he left? pretty impressive all those cups they've won since then. Possibly he was not the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I guarantee you you told me Lever was the best man for the job on YIM. Context. I said he was the best man for the job based on the names being tossed about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 How come Jacques gets crucified for not winning the cup im Ottawa? Has anybody looked at how they have done since he left? pretty impressive all those cups they've won since then. Possibly he was not the problem? + no goalie in Ottawa (actually, Lalime looked good... until he changed team! surprise!) + no secondary scoring in Ottawa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 + no goalie in Ottawa (actually, Lalime looked good... until he changed team! surprise!) + no secondary scoring in Ottawa sounds an awful lot like the problems they still have. I thought the GM was supposed to fix those problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 How come Jacques gets crucified for not winning the cup im Ottawa? Has anybody looked at how they have done since he left? pretty impressive all those cups they've won since then. Possibly he was not the problem? The next coach did take them to Cup Finals, and the team has fallen apart since then. Chara and Redden were the core of their defense and both of those guys are gone. Their goaltending has gone in the crapper also. I'm not saying anything about Martin one way or the other, but there's as much reason to think he'll be a best as there is to think he'll bring success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 The next coach did take them to Cup Finals, and the team has fallen apart since then. Chara and Redden were the core of their defense and both of those guys are gone. Their goaltending has gone in the crapper also. I'm not saying anything about Martin one way or the other, but there's as much reason to think he'll be a best as there is to think he'll bring success. well. lets look at this. when he got to ottawa they were a basket case, he turns them into an elite team in the league, he leaves they have 1 good year and yep back in the crapper. A person could say he had a lot to do with their success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Francois Allaire is expected to replace Melanson as our goalie coach. He appears to have some competition, as ex-Flames goalie coach David Marcoux has thrown his name in the ring. http://www.radio-canada.ca/sports/hockey/2...h-marcoux.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 well. lets look at this. when he got to ottawa they were a basket case, he turns them into an elite team in the league, he leaves they have 1 good year and yep back in the crapper. A person could say he had a lot to do with their success. Like I said, there are arguments both good and bad. He turned an expansion team into a successful team, but had a terrible playoff record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafikz Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 David Marcoux as Melanson's replacement ? http://www.cyberpresse.ca/la-tribune/sport...le-canadien.php Demers would have been back as a head coach if Savard took over: http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/275881.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soflhabfan Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 all the panther fans (there are about 50) are glad the martin is gone.they had already started the "martin must go" threads at the end of the season.still a curious move by gainey.if this were baseball, gainey would be considered a singles hitter. never seems able to hit one out of the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 all the panther fans (there are about 50) are glad the martin is gone.they had already started the "martin must go" threads at the end of the season.still a curious move by gainey.if this were baseball, gainey would be considered a singles hitter. never seems able to hit one out of the park. A singles hitter batting against the Great Wall of China. The GM of the Montreal Canadiens is not in a position to succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokyohabs Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 It's clear that Jaques Martin is not Bowman, Blake. But what is also clear is: Habs needed: discipline from the hc; a tight defensive system; a clear playing-style identity; an educator for younger skilled players; experienced coach at handling vets and their egos. Whether Martin is the long-term solution or not, BG has filled all those needs with Martin. We are not the Sharks, fantastic in the season almost every year, unable to get over the playoff hump, needing a guy who is a playoff-tested coach who can bring them to the semis or the finals. We are a relatively young team whose future is absolutely tied up in the youth. We need to hit the playoffs consistently, in a kind of stride, with a clearly established identity, before thinking going to the finals. We need to install a defensive system to exploit what is our best asset, #31. We need some sense of order - call it fear if you like - that means the GM does not have to make a drastic 'recall' of the star player with the team on the other side of the country. Martin will do all this, with a core of players that believe in him and the system. The talent level is better than he ever had in Florida, as are the finances. He inherits a team that is looking for authority and a leader. He isn't my first choice, but he can, at the very least, start setting the tables and get us out of this yo-yo mediocrity we've had for years. Not surprised at all with BG's choice, and in the bigger picture approve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Like I said, there are arguments both good and bad. He turned an expansion team into a successful team, but had a terrible playoff record. so back to the original question why does he get crucified for the playoff losses when as has been stated he had no goalie and no secondary scoring (GM' responsibilities) and after he left they did no better as a matter of fact they were much worse even though they went to the finals in 2006? They were also in last place and are now back to a basket case. I don't see how he gets all the blame. Was he supposed to play goal or score goals? Or go get a goalie on his own. In fact I think he simply took the team to the higest level it could achieve,with the talent he had, maybe that was not high enough but how is it his fault? I want the habs to be the best that they can be and we did not see that last year after the all star break. Hopefully he can take us to a higher level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 It's clear that Jaques Martin is not Bowman, Blake. But what is also clear is: Habs needed: discipline from the hc; a tight defensive system; a clear playing-style identity; an educator for younger skilled players; experienced coach at handling vets and their egos. Whether Martin is the long-term solution or not, BG has filled all those needs with Martin. We are not the Sharks, fantastic in the season almost every year, unable to get over the playoff hump, needing a guy who is a playoff-tested coach who can bring them to the semis or the finals. We are a relatively young team whose future is absolutely tied up in the youth. We need to hit the playoffs consistently, in a kind of stride, with a clearly established identity, before thinking going to the finals. We need to install a defensive system to exploit what is our best asset, #31. We need some sense of order - call it fear if you like - that means the GM does not have to make a drastic 'recall' of the star player with the team on the other side of the country. Martin will do all this, with a core of players that believe in him and the system. The talent level is better than he ever had in Florida, as are the finances. He inherits a team that is looking for authority and a leader. He isn't my first choice, but he can, at the very least, start setting the tables and get us out of this yo-yo mediocrity we've had for years. Not surprised at all with BG's choice, and in the bigger picture approve. Good post. One theme that's been underplayed is that Gainey has tacitly admitted that hiring Carbo was a major mistake. See Arpon Basu's excellent reflections at http://dailyhab-it.blogspot.com/2009/06/ma...n-of-fault.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Demers would have been back as a head coach if Savard took over: http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/275881.html Thank you very much to the Molson family. Thank you. Not another Barry Melrose please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 so back to the original question why does he get crucified for the playoff losses when as has been stated he had no goalie and no secondary scoring (GM' responsibilities) and after he left they did no better as a matter of fact they were much worse even though they went to the finals in 2006? They were also in last place and are now back to a basket case. I don't see how he gets all the blame. Was he supposed to play goal or score goals? Or go get a goalie on his own. In fact I think he simply took the team to the higest level it could achieve,with the talent he had, maybe that was not high enough but how is it his fault? I want the habs to be the best that they can be and we did not see that last year after the all star break. Hopefully he can take us to a higher level. And like I said, I'm not "crucifying" the man, I'm simply pointing out the arguments against him, whether they are fair or not. He had regular season success and playoff failure. Whether it's his fault or not, the numbers are going to stay with him. Reputations are built in the playoffs, so his lack of success there leads to a bad reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 http://dailyhab-it.blogspot.com/2009/06/ma...n-of-fault.html It's 3 years later. Different team, different situation. If he lets Schneider walk and signs Oduya, does that mean he's admitting acquiring Schneider was a mistake? Right now our needs are little different than they were 3 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafikz Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Thank you very much to the Molson family. Thank you. Not another Barry Melrose please. Hey, unlike Barry he won a cup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokyohabs Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Hey, unlike Barry he won a cup Yeah...against Barry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy Ryder Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Serge Savard is disconnected from the new hockey reality, it's a good thing that is group pulled out. He says that he wouldn't be named Presisent or GM but after that he says that he would have name Demers. Demers says that he would have bring Brunet as assistant coach. Taking this team back to 96 would not be any better than taking it back to Houle days. In this reality Jacques Martin is a good choice. In any other parrallel world he's not but here's there no superstar, no D, no supporting cast, no desire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 (edited) It's 3 years later. Different team, different situation. If he lets Schneider walk and signs Oduya, does that mean he's admitting acquiring Schneider was a mistake? Right now our needs are little different than they were 3 years ago. Well, what I find interesting about all this is the retrospective conclusion that Carbo failed to instil sound fundamentals in his three years. Even the great 2008 season, the team was playing a crazy free-wheeling style and overwhelming teams with speed and creativity (who can forget that 5-goal comeback against the Rangers? - but how is it we had to comeback like that in the first place?). But that seemed to be a momentum-driven, energy-driven, excitement-driven game more than a game built on rock-solid foundations and fundamentals, which may be one reason why it all was doomed to fall apart - you can't keep up that level of confidence and energy and inspiration/chemistry indefinitely. The 2007 and 2009 teams were disasters in their own end, NOT hard working, basically soft and erratic. Once the firewagon stuff dissolved they had absolutely nothing to fall back on. Gainey *may* have been admitting that attempting a rebuild without a coach who could establish a really strong structure to the team's game was a huge error, ultimately setting back the rebuild. It's almost like he put the cart (i.e., player talent) before the horse (coaching fundamentals). Or this may be too much 'reading in.' OR it may be too hard on Carbo. Just musing, that's all. As for Savard: he lost ALL credibility with that admission. First of all, it's NOT the owner's job to pick a coach. Second, Demers - much as I will forever love him for 1993 - is from the prehistoric age. Thank GOD Savard pulled out!!! Edited June 4, 2009 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokyohabs Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Good post. One theme that's been underplayed is that Gainey has tacitly admitted that hiring Carbo was a major mistake. See Arpon Basu's excellent reflections at http://dailyhab-it.blogspot.com/2009/06/ma...n-of-fault.html Interesting musings. Reads almost like Wamsley's preaching of patience, watching-nd-waiting strategy. Maybe Wamsley is Arpon Basu??? Except the last line is way off. BG will be remembered as a player first and foremost if he doesn't bring us a cup as GM. You are right about the team last season, exciting and great to finish first, but things like even-strength play were very significant as to how good the team actually was. And how good does Martin look in light of Serge's admissions (who I thought would be a great owner), my my, Demers and Brunet, Les Canadiens de RDS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Well, what I find interesting about all this is the retrospective conclusion that Carbo failed to instil sound fundamentals in his three years. Even the great 2008 season, the team was playing a crazy free-wheeling style and overwhelming teams with speed and creativity (who can forget that 5-goal comeback against the Rangers? - but how is it we had to comeback like that in the first place?). But that seemed to be a momentum-driven, energy-driven, excitement-driven game more than a game built on rock-solid foundations and fundamentals, which may be one reason why it all was doomed to fall apart - you can't keep up that level of confidence and energy and inspiration/chemistry indefinitely. The 2007 and 2009 teams were disasters in their own end, NOT hard working, basically soft and erratic. Once the firewagon stuff dissolved they had absolutely nothing to fall back on. Gainey *may* have been admitting that attempting a rebuild without a coach who could establish a really strong structure to the team's game was a huge error, ultimately setting back the rebuild. It's almost like he put the cart (i.e., player talent) before the horse (coaching fundamentals). Or this may be too much 'reading in.' OR it may be too hard on Carbo. Just musing, that's all. As for Savard: he lost ALL credibility with that admission. First of all, it's NOT the owner's job to pick a coach. Second, Demers - much as I will forever love him for 1993 - is from the prehistoric age. Thank GOD Savard pulled out!!! apparently, this morning on radio, in an interview by Paul Arcad, Serge Savard said that the Demers thing was a joke from him to Demers, but that apparently Demers didn't get that it was a job (From Mathias Brunet's blog) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafikz Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 apparently, this morning on radio, in an interview by Paul Arcad, Serge Savard said that the Demers thing was a joke from him to Demers, but that apparently Demers didn't get that it was a job (From Mathias Brunet's blog) Lolololololol SS: " hey Jacques, Roy, Carbo and Muller have agreed to come back as players " JD: " Wow, really? " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 It's time for the ol' AC to offer up my 2 cents on the hiring of Jacques Martin. I could get technical on this and discuss forechecking styles and defence styles of Martin's brand of hockey but I won't since it's been bandied enough already. All I can say is I'm very happy. If there is one thing I have learned about hockey is that when I see a coach or player who is on another rival team and that player (from a wanting the Canadiens to win perspective) or coach causes me to say "F__k" then I know he's a guy we would want. Gilmour had this influence on me. I would dread his skill - when I heard we had obtained his services I didn't have to think twice on whether or not I was pleased about it. Chances are if I feared or loathed an opponent I'd love him on my team Welcome to Montreal Jacques Martin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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