Jacques Martin new Habs head coach

[KoZed]

nah, we close it after your post.

Martin's Sens were an elite team ANYONE could dream of. Martin crafted them.

Hossa, Havlat, Alfie became what they are because Martin brought them to the next level.

We have had LOTS of dazzling talent slipping through our nets. Perez, Grabovski, the Kost bros.

Without a good TEACHER at the NHL LEVEL, those guys cannot make it to the next level.

This is something I've started thinking about today. Martin had good results from guys like Hossa and Havlat, even Yashin. Maybe he can get Andrei K to finally reach his potential. That alone would be a major plus.

[Colin]

I feel fairly pleased that Martin was my dark horse. Figgered he was done in Florida. I haven't read the thread yet, but all I know is that this is a BRILLIANT choice. I spose the knock is that he had no playoff success in Ottawa, but the reality is he had a bunch of Nancy's there. Let's see if Bob can give him the tools.

I LOVE this! Makes me want to follow hockey again. Finally, Montreal will play a complete game.

Utter brilliance.

[alexstream]

This is something I've started thinking about today. Martin had good results from guys like Hossa and Havlat, even Yashin. Maybe he can get Andrei K to finally reach his potential. That alone would be a major plus.

definitely.

I don't care how bad we lose to the Maple Leafs (Martin's trademark?), as long as we really start developing our so-called gems.

[alexstream]

I feel fairly pleased that Martin was my dark horse. Figgered he was done in Florida. I haven't read the thread yet, but all I know is that this is a BRILLIANT choice. I spose the knock is that he had no playoff success in Ottawa, but the reality is he had a bunch of Nancy's there. Let's see if Bob can give him the tools.

I LOVE this! Makes me want to follow hockey again. Finally, Montreal will play a complete game.

Utter brilliance.

Pat Burns said that it's astonishing.

Pat Burns.

not Michel the frikkin tiger Bergéron

not Réjean old school Tremblay

not Jack forgot to take the bus to the new NHL Todd

not Red stuck in the 1920s Fisher

not Ron Ron Ron Ron Ron Ron I stopped reffing 30 years ago to be a superstar in call-show radio Fournier

nah,

Pat JACK ADAMS Burn

said that it was an awesome choice.

I believe the man.

[Sir_Boagalott]

I'm really happy aboot this. Martin knows what he is doing, and if Lemaire is comming to even better, same with Allarie if thats also true. I like seeing the Habs pick up ex alumni who have been in different Divsions and Conferences for a long time. I bet all of them will know of several underappreciated hard working talented players in which they got to see all the time but Bob rarely got to see because the Habs are in a different Division/Conf.

Remember how in recent years the Panthers were boring but always giving us trouble because they had no quit? That's what we're about to get folks.

Yep, Florida seemed to be using a proactive 2 man forechecking system with short periods of 3 forcheckers. Most people agree that under Carbo there wasnt much of a "system" at all, but with Martin I highly imagine that will change from day 1 of spring training.

Melanson gone, Roy in? Melanson was too soft on Theo and Price. We need a goalie coach who can kick the little spoiled brats square in the ass.

I'm not sure if Melanson was to soft on his goalies. I look at it like Tiger Woods. After winning 4+ majors Tiger spent a while redoing everything and completely changing his swing style etc. It seemed to me that is what Melanson was attempting to do with Carey, but why? Price hasnt won 4+ Cups yet. Teams didnt know all of Prices weaknesses so why recreate him?

Ironically 2 years ago I said the the Habs will be the next Ottawa Senators.

I hope the Habs get some real grit this summer, that is what is missing from the proven winning strategy.

[sainteflanelle]

The Habs have proven in the second half last season that they are going nowhere without a sound defensive system and without tougher and faster players to execute it as well. I'm glad Jacques Martin has been hired as he'll bring much needed structure and discipline to the team. I'm not sure we have the perfect team on the ice though to play a tight and efficient trap system. Kovy, the artist, has never been at ease playing in any system and Saku may have lost the speed necessary to forecheck and come back quickly enough to block the centre. Hiring Martin is one thing but getting the players on the ice who will be committed and able to execute his system is another thing. The ball is in Gainey's court. The Habs right now are a skating team but they lack leadership and toughness. I hope Martin will put more pressure on Gainey to give him the horses he needs for the 2009-10 race. It won't be easy.

[alexstream]

I'm really happy aboot this. Martin knows what he is doing, and if Lemaire is comming to even better, same with Allarie if thats also true. I like seeing the Habs pick up ex alumni who have been in different Divsions and Conferences for a long time. I bet all of them will know of several underappreciated hard working talented players in which they got to see all the time but Bob rarely got to see because the Habs are in a different Division/Conf.

Yep, Florida seemed to be using a proactive 2 man forechecking system with short periods of 3 forcheckers. Most people agree that under Carbo there wasnt much of a "system" at all, but with Martin I highly imagine that will change from day 1 of spring training.

I'm not sure if Melanson was to soft on his goalies. I look at it like Tiger Woods. After winning 4+ majors Tiger spent a while redoing everything and completely changing his swing style etc. It seemed to me that is what Melanson was attempting to do with Carey, but why? Price hasnt won 4+ Cups yet. Teams didnt know all of Prices weaknesses so why recreate him?

Ironically 2 years ago I said the the Habs will be the next Ottawa Senators.

I hope the Habs get some real grit this summer, that is what is missing from the proven winning strategy.

1. No, Lemaire is not coming, I believe someone heard he might have been interviewed in combo with Mario Tremblay and that someone thought it was a done deal, so when that someone heard a coaching announcement would be made, that someone thought he had a scoop and called CKAC, who relied on that someone as a reliable source.

2. you're right on price. He was an excellent standup goalie... How does he go from an excellent standup goalie to a goalie whose weakness is above the shoulders in butterfly style??! We're not talking about Jose Theodore there...

[saskhab]

Jeff Hackett just got fired by the Avalanche as well (so did Granato, Cloutier, Goulet and 2 others; they've obviously picked a whole new staff that they are about to announce). Goaltending coaches are getting canned everywhere!

[Wamsley01]

1. No, Lemaire is not coming, I believe someone heard he might have been interviewed in combo with Mario Tremblay and that someone thought it was a done deal, so when that someone heard a coaching announcement would be made, that someone thought he had a scoop and called CKAC, who relied on that someone as a reliable source.

2. you're right on price. He was an excellent standup goalie... How does he go from an excellent standup goalie to a goalie whose weakness is above the shoulders in butterfly style??! We're not talking about Jose Theodore there...

I have read this before, but EVERYTHING I saw from Price in junior showed a butterfly goaltender who did not overplay

the butterfly 100% of the time. He was not a hybrid like Brodeur, but he was not like Giguere either. Same thing during

the AHL playoff run and his rookie season. At his best he is a technically sound butterfly goalie, and EVER butterfly goalie

is vulnerable upstairs.

Price struggles like Roy did when he overcommits to the butterfly early. When he waits that extra moment before committing

he allows himself the opportunity to control the upper half of the net, but his form last year in the second half was a mess.

As soon as he guessed wrong 3 straight times against the Rangers in the shootout I wrote off the rest of the year, he was lost.

He picked himself up and didn't embarass himself to finish the year, but something was technically amiss.

During the 2007-08 seasons he was always centered in his net, he wasn't scrambling and overpursuing. The term economy of

movement was used constantly, but this year he was off his angles, he was sliding past his posts, he wasn't following pucks

through to completion. Then late in the year it was reported that Melanson wanted him DEEP in his net and he started getting

beat with stoppable pucks on a regular basis from the hashmarks in. A goalie of his size is not taking advantage of his size

when he plays too deep.

His weakness upstairs is a myth. Out of his 143 goals he allowed 39 in the upper half of the net.

19 high glove side, 20 high blocker side. So that is 27% of the shots that beat him high.

Halak does not have that reputation, yet 30 of his 92 goals were in the upper half.

18 high glove side, 12 high blocker side. So that is 33% of the shots that beat him high.

The probable Vezina winner Tim Thomas gave up 31% of his goals in the upper half.

A standup goalie is Kirk McLean, and you CANNOT exist in the NHL anymore as a standup.

Edited June 3, 2009 by Wamsley01

[saskhab]

Price is more like the modern Finnish hybrid goalie style than a strict butterflyer. He's got more in common with Kiprusoff than Giguere or Brodeur.

[BTH]

I feel fairly pleased that Martin was my dark horse. Figgered he was done in Florida. I haven't read the thread yet, but all I know is that this is a BRILLIANT choice. I spose the knock is that he had no playoff success in Ottawa, but the reality is he had a bunch of Nancy's there. Let's see if Bob can give him the tools.

I LOVE this! Makes me want to follow hockey again. Finally, Montreal will play a complete game.

Utter brilliance.

You mean you're no longer insisting that Don Lever is the best man for the job!?

Jeff Hackett just got fired by the Avalanche as well (so did Granato, Cloutier, Goulet and 2 others; they've obviously picked a whole new staff that they are about to announce). Goaltending coaches are getting canned everywhere!

Pat Hickey says Phil Myre is a possibility as goalie coach and Martin will probably choose Perry Pearn as one of his assistants. Our organization will be loaded with Ottawa people...

[alexstream]

I have read this before, but EVERYTHING I saw from Price in junior showed a butterfly goaltender who did not overplay

the butterfly 100% of the time. He was not a hybrid like Brodeur, but he was not like Giguere either. Same thing during

the AHL playoff run and his rookie season. At his best he is a technically sound butterfly goalie, and EVER butterfly goalie

is vulnerable upstairs.

Price struggles like Roy did when he overcommits to the butterfly early. When he waits that extra moment before committing

he allows himself the opportunity to control the upper half of the net, but his form last year in the second half was a mess.

As soon as he guessed wrong 3 straight times against the Rangers in the shootout I wrote off the rest of the year, he was lost.

He picked himself up and didn't embarass himself to finish the year, but something was technically amiss.

During the 2007-08 seasons he was always centered in his net, he wasn't scrambling and overpursuing. The term economy of

movement was used constantly, but this year he was off his angles, he was sliding past his posts, he wasn't following pucks

through to completion. Then late in the year it was reported that Melanson wanted him DEEP in his net and he started getting

beat with stoppable pucks on a regular basis from the hashmarks in. A goalie of his size is not taking advantage of his size

when he plays too deep.

His weakness upstairs is a myth. Out of his 143 goals he allowed 39 in the upper half of the net.

19 high glove side, 20 high blocker side. So that is 27% of the shots that beat him high.

Halak does not have that reputation, yet 30 of his 92 goals were in the upper half.

18 high glove side, 12 high blocker side. So that is 33% of the shots that beat him high.

The probable Vezina winner Tim Thomas gave up 31% of his goals in the upper half.

A standup goalie is Kirk McLean, and you CANNOT exist in the NHL anymore as a standup.

lol yeah, you're right, when I said standup, I meant "butterfly standup". cause anything nowadays is butterfly.

Last year couple of times he was successful was because he was standing up more than he did this season. He was making a lot of saves while still standing up and would make the rebound save on butterfly for example. This year, the rebound shot would get in, cause he would already be in butterfly and wouldn't be able to make the cross-crease move quick enough and wouldn't have the defensive support to avoid letting cross-crease opportunities.

[Colin]

You mean you're no longer insisting that Don Lever is the best man for the job!?

I never said Lever was best man for the job. Always wanted a guy with experience.

[Habsfan]

Pat Hickey says Phil Myre is a possibility as goalie coach

Yup!

I heard the same thing this morning. I jusst hope Bob will be able to sign François Allaire. With Allaire as his goalie coach, you can be sure that Carey will become one of the top 5 goalies in the league!

[BTH]

I never said Lever was best man for the job. Always wanted a guy with experience.

I guarantee you you told me Lever was the best man for the job on YIM.

[Wamsley01]

Price is more like the modern Finnish hybrid goalie style than a strict butterflyer. He's got more in common with Kiprusoff than Giguere or Brodeur.

But a butterfly is a butterfly.

Luongo plays it differently than Giguere, who plays it different than Fleury, who plays it different from Ward.

THe less athletic the goaltender, the more reliant upon the positioning. Think Garth Snow, John Grahame, Jonas Hiller.

Price has the ability to be more than just reliant on positioning, which is why I think the more he learns and adjusts

to the speed and understanding of the game, the more dominant he will become.

Brodeur is essentially the last standup goaltender, he is still a reflex guy who uses a mixture of styles. Reflex guys do not

age well (cough cough, Cujo) His decline has been hidden behind a strong defensive team, but the first hint of that decline was

what Clemmensen accomplished this year.

I don't believe that Brodeur is the greatest goaltender of all-time, but it would have been interesting to see the results if technology

had not changed and Roy and him had to rely on their instincts and reflexes like every goalie before 1990.

[saskhab]

Cujo was still pretty darn good at 37. In fact, it's not uncommon for butterfly guys to have knee, hip or back issues over time from their movements.

[Fanpuck33]

"The former Florida Panthers general manager is pretty much uncommunicative in two languages: French and English."

- Sports Illustrated's Michael Farber

[Wamsley01]

Cujo was still pretty darn good at 37. In fact, it's not uncommon for butterfly guys to have knee, hip or back issues over time from their movements.

Playing on a stacked Wings team that had Legace put up better numbers the next season?

Look at his numbers during his next full season on a poor Phoenix team.

Cujo made a living off making poor teams better, if he played on the Wings for the same amount

of years as Osgood, he would be considered one of the great goaltenders of all-time. In his prime

93-2002 when he was stealing playoff series for the Blues, Oilers and Leafs, the Wings may have won a couple

more titles.

Think the 1993 Wings that had Cheveldae in goal would have lost to the Leafs in the first round? The Leafs barely

outlasted a far inferior Blues team in the next round.

Hasek, Roy, Brodeur all had their declines masked by great teams. Roy's final season resulted in monster numbers,

but they were accomplished during the 4th lowest goal scoring season post expansion on a Stanley Cup contender

and a season in which the average SV% was .909.

Roy could have played until he was into his 40s on a strong team by staying positionally sound. Hasek had outrageous

numbers at 41 on the Wings but was a shell of his MVP self.

Edited June 3, 2009 by Wamsley01

[alexstream]

"The former Florida Panthers general manager is pretty much uncommunicative in two languages: French and English."

- Sports Illustrated's Michael Farber

LOL

Carbo talked to the media more than Martin will do.

but Martin talks to his players a lot from what I heard (e.g. Patrick Lalime on the radio)

Playing on a stacked Wings team that had Legace put up better numbers the next season?

Look at his numbers during his next full season on a poor Phoenix team.

Cujo made a living off making poor teams better, if he played on the Wings for the same amount

of years as Osgood, he would be considered one of the great goaltenders of all-time. In his prime

93-2002 when he was stealing playoff series for the Blues, Oilers and Leafs, the Wings may have won a couple

more titles.

Think the 1993 Wings that had Cheveldae in goal would have lost to the Leafs in the first round? The Leafs barely

outlasted a far inferior Blues team in the next round.

Hasek, Roy, Brodeur all had their declines masked by great teams. Roy's final season resulted in monster numbers,

but they were accomplished during the 4th lowest goal scoring season post expansion on a Stanley Cup contender

and a season in which the average SV% was .909.

Roy could have played until he was into his 40s on a strong team by staying positionally sound. Hasek had outrageous

numbers at 41 on the Wings but was a shell of his MVP self.

not only pointing at you Wamsley, I myself got into that... but guys :

if you want to start a topic on modern goaltending styles, go ahead. This is a topic about Jacques Martin.

[rafikz]

"The former Florida Panthers general manager is pretty much uncommunicative in two languages: French and English."

- Sports Illustrated's Michael Farber

Not surprised.

CNNSI is worse than ESPN

Yes, it's possible

[KEEP26]

what ever happen to price, i think it as to do with him not playing the puck...when he came back, he seems to play the puck alot less..i dont know if that was a coaching choice but i think price is best when he playing the puck...

[rafikz]

Can someone punch Burnside on my behalf?

This guy is a joke

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/stor...&id=4222624

[Fanpuck33]

Can someone punch Burnside on my behalf?

This guy is a joke

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/stor...&id=4222624

What exactly about that article makes him a joke? Consistent regular season success like he had in Ottawa would certainly be an upgrade over what has transpired in the last 15 years, but is that enough? Can he suddenly find playoff success in Montreal? The most glaring thing about the hiring is his inability to beat Toronto. It's tough to swallow hiring a coach that is good at losing to Toronto. Hopefully he'll be able to overcome Toronto, given their current state.

[saskhab]

Wamsley, you had implied that reflex guys age worse than butterfly guys, I was trying to bunk that claim. You essentially ceded that point by saying that other goalies similarly aged in their late 30s but their decline was hidden by the great teams they were on... it doesn't matter if you're a positioning goalie or not... both rely on reflexes pretty equally, if you ask me, just one is about getting into a butterfly position in a short period of time while the other is about getting some part of you in front of the puck.