Transcending the goalies controversy

[KoZed]

Ok, so we lose and it's never Price or Halak's fault.

Offense -- or lack thereof -- is the problem.

You're Jacques Martin or Bob Gainey. What's your solution?

[Chris]

I call up SK74 and put him on the 2nd line with Pleks and his brother for a few weeks and see what happens.

I leave the top line and the Metro line as is.

I keep Pyatt, White and let Lats, Chipchura and Lqapierre fight for the last spot.

I don't do much with the defense until healthy.

I have Martin and BG decide who are actual keepers. Too early in my opinion, wait 1 more month.

If they aren't in the hunt i start a sale on some players.

Hamrlik will be a player who is wanted for a playoff run, like Washington or someone like that. Get a young D back.

Mara will be wanted as well, he is a solid 2 way guy.

Metro can go either way, teams will want him, but the return won't be much.

I trade the Kosty bro's together for a young player with equal skill, it's a 2 for 1 since SK is a pain in the a##.

Pleks is another tough one, you could get a #1 for him, but you'll have to move him soon to do that, he is playing very well.

So you wind up with some prospects and some salaried vets back, an additional #1 pick.

Markov takes Hamrlik's spot whe he returns.

Plus you free up alot of cap space on some of those moves.

Obviuosly soem posters will think more cleansing is too much, or i'm insane but that's what i would do.

I'm not convinced on what i've seen so far they are a playoff contender, give it 1 more month.

[Colin]

Exactly what the coach said in his post-game. GO TO THE NET.

[KoZed]

Chris, with all your cleansing, you can't let Lats, Laps & Chips fight for a spot, you'll need to dress them because there's no players left!

Exactly what the coach said in his post-game. GO TO THE NET.

Betcha the youngest half the team didnt understand what Martin meant, got on their iPhone and asked "Coach, we're on the Net. Now what?"

[Colin]

Chris, with all your cleansing, you can't let Lats, Laps & Chips fight for a spot, you'll need to dress them because there's no players left!

Betcha the youngest half the team didnt understand what Martin meant, got on their iPhone and asked "Coach, we're on the Net. Now what?"

Based on their play, you could very well be right. Coach Martin used the word 'perimeter' and that is never a good thing. Look at the Metro, Moen, Patches line. They get the puck deep - check. They cycle quite well - check. The generally out-work the opposition - check. But they rarely go to the net. The do endless work on the boards, but no one gets to the slot to receive a pass. I believe Patches should be doing that. Start the hard work, contribute to the cycle, then move to the slot and keep moving to stay open. He starts potting a couple and I can see his confidence soar. He's got all the tools and has really improved substantially this season. He's just not getting to the net. He does that, and maybe we have that 'power forward' we need.

I think Lats should be doing the same thing. He's great at the cycle (and at times can 'cycle' on his own because his body presence is excellent) but at some point, he has to get to the slot, much it out in there, keep moving and slam the puck home.

In Patches and Lats, I think we have two guys who, if they could ever get their confidence up, could be true Tim Kerr's (I'd say Leclair, but that would elicit endless talk about that trade...again). Guy who moves in the slot and just fires at the first opportunity.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

What really bothers me this year is that the new guys are playing well and the "leftovers" from last year are sucking. Why are Lats, Laps and A. Kost. struggling so much? Why can't these guys score?

Do we need a total rebuild?

[bar]

My idea would be to dress 7 D, and 11 forwards.

That way we could double shift Gomez/Gionta on the fourth line with White/Pyatt/Chips.

The 7 D would limit Bergys minutes, as well as alleviate some of the top minutes the old dogs are doing.

Not sure what to do with the minutes. Maybe give Dagy a shot at the top line?

[KoZed]

You know, being a GM in HWL with a cap you develop a sort of cost/result mentality. Right now, even though Lats, Laps, Chips, Patches arent scoring much, I dont worry too much because they are CHEAP. 800k for Lats & Laps, 500k for Chips, 875k for Pacioretty. Even the new whiping boy Bergy is just making 750k.

No, the real bad deal there is AK 46. 3.25 millions for 1 goal and 5 pts. He's gotta stop taking those 20 feet Jim Campbell shots and work to get closer to the net.

[Trizzak]

Demote Pacioretty. He's currently learning how to be a grinder, and not a very good one. I want to see him dominate AHLers by being told to GO TO THE NET and physically be able to do so more often than not. He's lost his offensive mindset and needs to gain it back.

Promote S. Kostitsyn. It's a no-win situation really. Even if he does well and the team subsequently does well, he's going to walk around like a princess with the thought in his head that he's the saviour and Gainey was a fool for ever deciding to demote him. But I think it's worth the risk to see if that sparks his brother and gets the offense moving again.

Use Bergeron more on the powerplay. Booming shots from the point have been rather effective in recent history. Or, if you're not going to do that, play Carle over Bergeron. When paired together, Carle saved Bergeron's ass defensively 9 times out of 10, and still brings on offensive element to the team. It differs from Bergeron's, but if you insist on trying to work the down low feed, Carle's on-ice vision is more than adequate for the job.

Edit: Also, with Pyatt, White, and Carle making fairly good debuts, I'd start looking at some trades for more offense once the injured players start coming back.

Edited November 12, 2009 by Trizzak

[brobin]

What really bothers me this year is that the new guys are playing well and the "leftovers" from last year are sucking. Why are Lats, Laps and A. Kost. struggling so much? Why can't these guys score?

Do we need a total rebuild?

I too am pondering this. Did these guys just pick up such a bad attitude from the old core that it will take time to fix? Did the team really quit on Gainey, not Carbo? Are the pouting about the loss of their old core? Are they simply not that good? Did they fail to get in shape?

For all the whining about the new core Gainey brought in (size, price), they are not our main issue. The main issue is not a single player from last year besides Halak and Pleks are contributing to this team. That is stunning and certainly must have caught Gainey off guard.

I do think we need to name a captain and soon. This team needs a leader and fast.

[KoZed]

I too am pondering this. Did these guys just pick up such a bad attitude from the old core that it will take time to fix? Did the team really quit on Gainey, not Carbo? Are the pouting about the loss of their old core? Are they simply not that good? Did they fail to get in shape?

For all the whining about the new core Gainey brought in (size, price), they are not our main issue. The main issue is not a single player from last year besides Halak and Pleks are contributing to this team. That is stunning and certainly must have caught Gainey off guard.

I do think we need to name a captain and soon. This team needs a leader and fast.

Lats & Laps are going through growing pains IMO. They were the only two guys who progressed last year in an environment where everybody else pretty much threw the towel. Their game was fairly simple and they had become good at it. Now the entire environment is changed, it's a new coaching staff asking something different from them. They're trying to adapt to something entirely new.  

Kostitsyn I dont know. I think he must feel real lonely now. Kovy gone, his bro in Hamilton, Markov out. He seems to have gone further into his shell.

[BCHabnut]

Chris, with all your cleansing, you can't let Lats, Laps & Chips fight for a spot, you'll need to dress them because there's no players left!

Betcha the youngest half the team didnt understand what Martin meant, got on their iPhone and asked "Coach, we're on the Net. Now what?"

Ahhhh....that was awesome. I laughed.

[Colin]

No, the real bad deal there is AK 46. 3.25 millions for 1 goal and 5 pts. He's gotta stop taking those 20 feet Jim Campbell shots and work to get closer to the net.

'Nuff said.

Game, set, match.

Point finale.

BOOM. Tough actin' Tinactin.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Lats & Laps are going through growing pains IMO. They were the only two guys who progressed last year in an environment where everybody else pretty much threw the towel. Their game was fairly simple and they had become good at it. Now the entire environment is changed, it's a new coaching staff asking something different from them. They're trying to adapt to something entirely new.  

Kostitsyn I dont know. I think he must feel real lonely now. Kovy gone, his bro in Hamilton, Markov out. He seems to have gone further into his shell.

This is where having a captain would really help. Someone to help Kostitsyn get over this. I wonder if anyone in the dressing room is already trying to do so.

LOL @ Colin and WTF?

[Chris]

Kozed, i know they have to play if he made all the moves i would do. But on the current roster roster, Pyatt and White are outplaying those guys, so that's what i meant there.

They REALLY need a second line in the worst way and some high draft picks.

On the telecast the other night i got the Flames feed and they said the habs are currently the 5th youngest team in the league, i didn't realize that.

Contrary to popular belief, that habs do have some players that will get some different talent back, the question is will it be any better. At this point it can't be any worse that's for sure.

I would leave Pacioretty where he is, he needs this year and maybe next to polish his game, I saw him alot in college and as i keep pointing out,he isn't a gifted scorer, he works the cornors, he takes the body, in college anyway he drove the net alot and put in alot of garbage goals. He won't do that with the habs unless he is on the top line, know one else understands or is willing to do that except the top line at this point, as Martin has pointed out numerous times.

[saskhab]

This is where having a captain would really help. Someone to help Kostitsyn get over this. I wonder if anyone in the dressing room is already trying to do so.

LOL @ Colin and WTF?

I'd hope that the captain doesn't get saddled with babysitting duties. There is a group of 7 designated leaders on this team, they should be able to help out.

[Colin]

Any captain talk is probably not worth the effort. I'm sure there are leaders in the dressing room already. I don't think a letter on a jersey makes a difference in the room. If someone stands up and calls someone else out, then that's good enough.

[KoZed]

Any captain talk is probably not worth the effort. I'm sure there are leaders in the dressing room already. I don't think a letter on a jersey makes a difference in the room. If someone stands up and calls someone else out, then that's good enough.

You know, so far this season, the guy that seems to display the most "captain-like" qualities is... Plekanec! Called out Sergei K publicly on his work ethic, shows up every game, is always in the opposition's top players' face, etc. Who would have thunk?!

[Chris]

Yea, it's sad that i keep waiting for Pleks to put his skirt back on and start playing poorly again. Maybe he gave it to Lats, Lapierre.

That's why i think a decision on Pleks has to be made soon, if BG and Martin think he is a keeper get him signed. If not trade him sooner rather then later, his trade value has never been higher IMO. He'll get you a #1 pick.

You can't wait until he hits UFA, he'll be a goner for sure.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Maybe I'm crazy, but what about putting Metropolit on the wing with Plekanec? I KNOW Metro isn't exactly a prolific scorer, but he's not a perimeter player either, and I could see him putting a little streak together. Just woodshedding here.

In any case, long term THE solution to secondary scoring is for one (just one!!!) of our young guys to actually start producing with some conviction. The current level of output from those guys is ridiculous. Andrei Kostitsyns is AWOL. Sergei is on Mars. Lats has a rare genetic disorder that prevents him from understand the meaning of the phrase 'drive to the net.' Pacioretty isn't ready to be a top-sixer. D'agostini is concussed. You can already hear murmurs of criticisms of the Big Three on offence, but they're not the problem, not unless we define not being able to carry a team as a single line as "the problem." The problem, as the more thoughtful have noted, is all those unproductive losers left over from last season.

Great thread, by the way.

Edited November 12, 2009 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[brobin]

What have the goalies done lately.. neither of them has scored a single goal this year.

[Habsfan]

I think Lats should be doing the same thing. He's great at the cycle (and at times can 'cycle' on his own because his body presence is excellent) but at some point, he has to get to the slot, much it out in there, keep moving and slam the puck home.

In Patches and Lats, I think we have two guys who, if they could ever get their confidence up, could be true Tim Kerr's (I'd say Leclair, but that would elicit endless talk about that trade...again). Guy who moves in the slot and just fires at the first opportunity.

Agreed, but more importantly, i'd say they shouod go TO the net. Park their butts in front of the goalie and get some garbage goals...especially Lats. True he has a good shot, but he seems to be lacking that split second that makes all the difference between the Juniors and the NHL. Give him tapes of Holmstrom, and force him to watch them every day...then, maybe he,ll understand.

The problem could eb that Lats understands that he needs to go to the net, but he doesn't want to do it. Maybe he doesn't want ot pay the price and stay in front of the damn net!?!?

[Chris]

Maybe they could put their game checks in the nets. That may get them closer to the net.

I have never seen a team that actually cycles away from the towards the blue line like the habs always do.

I have never seen a team with so many fly by's and go behind the net just to turn it over 2 seconds later.

When a good player comes down the wing they move and drive the net force a penalty, get a scoring chance or get a goal.

[Chris]

One more interesting fact, Not only are the PP and PK really bad, they are also leading the league in minor penalties.

[Chips]

Maybe they could put their game checks in the nets. That may get them closer to the net.

I have never seen a team that actually cycles away from the towards the blue line like the habs always do.

I have never seen a team with so many fly by's and go behind the net just to turn it over 2 seconds later.

When a good player comes down the wing they move and drive the net force a penalty, get a scoring chance or get a goal.

Very interesting thought Chris. Not sure how many of you can remember the media hyping up the first game between the Rangers and Canadiens this year, Gomez's first game against the blue shirts. I remember seeing interviews in the dressing room about Cash for each goal scored., etc. If I remember correctly there was loads of talk about cash being put up by Gomez to any player who scores goals and most importantly to anyone who helps the team win that game... If I remember correctly! we won that game because Cammy went crazy and scored a hat-Trick! We can assume his wallet was very heavy that night.

Maybe we need financial motivation to get players scoring. Give players a base salary and if they produce they get to see their salaries grow!

I'll accept the argument that BG has done something like this with those players with one year contracts I guess... if they produce they may be signed next season to fatter contracts. So why are they not producing? I will not accept the argument that they suck, they made it to this level for a reason! Why are so many of our younger players not taking it to the next level?

And what in the world got into Plex's pants! and can he put on a workshop for everyone else who is not using their top gear!

The Habs need to find the key to the Glory days again...

Edited November 12, 2009 by Chips