Halak the key?

[jackp]

There's also the other possibility: a KHL offer for Halak. Or, a 3rd possibility: locking up both goalies makes us lose some other talent (Plekanec, Pouliot offer sheet, or S. Kostitsyn KHL offer).

Wamsley has made the very strong case for keeping Price long term over Halak. And I think there's a strong case to be made that by the entry draft we should have only one of those goalies on our roster.

It's clear then that you want to trade Halak. When you're reduced to saying we might lose S.Kostitsyn if we don't, then I really have to question your objectivity.

As far as Walmsley making a strong case for keeping Price over Halak... That's only if you accept his "facts." There's one fact that he chooses to ignore and it's a big one. For most of their NHL careers, Halak has outplayed Price. (As a matter of fact, Halak outplayed Huet before Price arrived on the scene. In a disappointingly familiar scenario, Huet came back from injury and they played him in that critical last game against Toronto, instead of Halak. Huet played poorly and we got bombed.)

Gainey has never really appreciated Halak. In some ways it reminds me of the Doug Flutie/Rob Johnson situation years ago in Buffalo. Flutie was small, and unorthodox. Halak is small and unorthodox. Johnson was your prototypical QB of the future - big, and with really great form. Price is similar to Johnson - big guy, covers a lot of the net, a goalie of the future. What Buffalo continued to ignore was that Flutie was consistently outperforming Johnson. Still, they let Flutie go to end the controversy, just like people here want to let Halak go. (And they had a better case in Buffalo than here for doing so - Flutie was *much older* than Johnson. Halak is not much older than Price). For those of you too young to know what happened, Flutie went on to be a starting QB for San Diego, while Johnson failed in Buffalo and failed everywhere he went. Now I know Flutie wasn't the starter for long in SD, but that's because a talented young QB called Drew Brees came along. And Brees didn't win the starting job because of his potential - from the beginning, he was every bit as good as Flutie (if not better), and won the job because of *performance.* Yes, *performance,* even though he was very young.

So Walmsley can give all the analyses he wants about potential and form and style, ad nauseum. *Until Price starts to outperform Halak,* we would be crazy to trade Halak away. It would be throwing away a known, proven asset, for some intangible future possibility.

[hab29RETIRED]

It's clear then that you want to trade Halak. When you're reduced to saying we might lose S.Kostitsyn if we don't, then I really have to question your objectivity.

As far as Walmsley making a strong case for keeping Price over Halak... That's only if you accept his "facts." There's one fact that he chooses to ignore and it's a big one. For most of their NHL careers, Halak has outplayed Price. (As a matter of fact, Halak outplayed Huet before Price arrived on the scene. In a disappointingly familiar scenario, Huet came back from injury and they played him in that critical last game against Toronto, instead of Halak. Huet played poorly and we got bombed.)

Gainey has never really appreciated Halak. In some ways it reminds me of the Doug Flutie/Rob Johnson situation years ago in Buffalo. Flutie was small, and unorthodox. Halak is small and unorthodox. Johnson was your prototypical QB of the future - big, and with really great form. Price is similar to Johnson - big guy, covers a lot of the net, a goalie of the future. What Buffalo continued to ignore was that Flutie was consistently outperforming Johnson. Still, they let Flutie go to end the controversy, just like people here want to let Halak go. (And they had a better case in Buffalo than here for doing so - Flutie was *much older* than Johnson. Halak is not much older than Price). For those of you too young to know what happened, Flutie went on to be a starting QB for San Diego, while Johnson failed in Buffalo and failed everywhere he went. Now I know Flutie wasn't the starter for long in SD, but that's because a talented young QB called Drew Brees came along. And Brees didn't win the starting job because of his potential - from the beginning, he was every bit as good as Flutie (if not better), and won the job because of *performance.* Yes, *performance,* even though he was very young.

So Walmsley can give all the analyses he wants about potential and form and style, ad nauseum. *Until Price starts to outperform Halak,* we would be crazy to trade Halak away. It would be throwing away a known, proven asset, for some intangible future possibility.

+1

I was EXTREMELY pissed when the habs started Huet against toronto and even more pissed when they lost 6-5 and got knocked out by the leafs of all people. Halak put them into a position to have a shot at the playoffs and they went with Huet. Fast forward to last year, Halak, put the team into a position to get into the playoffs while Price was struggling and Gainey kept rolling the dice on Price.

Edited January 26, 2010 by hab29RETIRED

[Habsy]

I don't see them trading Price, it is clearly too early. I just don't see the need to rush and trade Halak. He is playing well and he might even be our main guy going into the playoffs (see my optimism).

If I was Gainey, I would sit Halak down and tell him that if he is the best goalie in the 2nd half, he will get the opportunity to see what he can do in the playoffs. That is a great chance for him to raise his value and then if they can't come to an agreement on a contract, he will be willing to trade his rights to another team. This is a win win for us and Halak. It also puts it squarely on Halak to deliver.

As for all the BS spouted about their ages, it is nonsense. What does age have to do with it, it is experience. Price actually has more experience then Halak , he should be better. The diff between 22 and 24 is meaningless imo. Its not like a 20 year old goalie vs a 30 year old vet.

As for the wondrous achievements by Price so far.. well, I have seen nothing. He played well for the Canadian Jrs. He won the memorial cup, although there is no reason to believe that Halak couldn't of, he never got the chance. In any case, this is the NHL and Price has won nothing. He has put together some great games, some great strings of games, and some horrible stretches. I don't hold this against him, it is expected for a young goalie. I notice that when Halak has a bad game, it is usually given as evidence of his inferior capabilities. Silly. They are both inexperienced. They both need more development.

The only issue hanging over Price which might be a reason for trading him is if he wants out. If he needs a fresh start and wants out, then Gainey may have no choice but to move him and get as much back as possible. I sure hope that is not the case, but there are times when GMs do what appears to be dumb because they have more info at their finger tips then we do.

Sorry, but age is crucial in the development of Carey Price. He hasn't always handled himself maturely. Fast forward 2 years. See where his development is, when considering his reaction after goals, his demeanor off the ice, his handling of playing in a big city for the 1st time. Think about what each of us were like when we were younger, and how we change over time. To say age is nonsense, is, well, nonsense.

[bar]

As far as Walmsley making a strong case for keeping Price over Halak... That's only if you accept his "facts." There's one fact that he chooses to ignore and it's a big one. For most of their NHL careers, Halak has outplayed Price.

Your words are, I just want the goalie that plays better, then you spout off crap again, look at the career NHL numbers...do they show which goalie has outplayed each other? You factor in the strength of opponent this year and the goalies are practically EQUAL...

Halak .918 2.70

Price .912 2.71

[Dalhabs]

Your words are, I just want the goalie that plays better, then you spout off crap again, look at the career NHL numbers...do they show which goalie has outplayed each other? You factor in the strength of opponent this year and the goalies are practically EQUAL...

Halak .918 2.70

Price .912 2.71

U forgot the important stats... wins compared to losses.

Halak - W- 44 L - 28

Price - W- 58 L- 44

AND Halak has never lost more games than he wins in any of his seasons not that they are many

Still Price is valued higher in my book but Halak has been better so far so if the return is good enough Id trade Price if we were sure of keeping Halak IF we have to trade any of them.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Dalhabs

[bar]

Factor in the strength of schedule from just this year and the +2 win difference is not a big deal (w/l difference is 14 Price, 16 Halak).

[Habsy]

Please don't shoot the messanger, I'm just trying to add to the debate. As per the Team 990. Last week, following the St. Louis game, it's alleged that Markov confronted Carey Price, and said if he doesn't play with more heart, he should go home. And a small altercation took place. Some defended Carey, and some defended Andrei. Take it for what it's worth, the station does seem to have some access to the dressing room.

[Chris]

I look at all the little problems and confrontations as a good thing. BG finally got some winners on the team and they are calling out the problem players on the team.

The team turnover isn't done by a long shot.

[saskhab]

The comments to me seem derived from frustration on Markov's part... he missed a glorious chance to win the game 10 seconds before MacDonald scored... a goal in which Markov was in awful positioning for.

Hell, Price wanted to take on Cam Janssen that game, I don't think it was the game a logical person would question Carey's heart over. Heat of the moment type comment, it'll pass.

[Habsfan84]

looks like Price gets the start tonight! Just to add to the fact that Halak has never played a game after a loss.

[ForumGhost]

looks like Price gets the start tonight! Just to add to the fact that Halak has never played a game after a loss.

Or, you know, that the games are back to back.

[johnnyhasbeen]

It is such a drag that so many see having 2 good goalies as a problem. I prefer it to having a goalie on the bench that I tremble at the thought of having to have a start to rest our francise man. Do you Racicot backing up Roy? That was a bigger problem in my eye. Guy was actually a decent goalie. bad first game stuck with him for life. I never felt comfortable with him in nets because he always looked uncomfortable. I say stick with both for as long as they are both happy here. At some point one will go. Sanford is a capable backup to whoever wins out, and Desjardins is going to fight for the spot in a couple years, just as the goalie who stays probably becomes too expensive. We have no issue what so ever in that position. Oh, and I will take too many defenceman over too few....

Our jump 4th and for that matter 3rd line are leading the their conference in the AHL. Don't want to rush them now, do we?

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

It is such a drag that so many see having 2 good goalies as a problem. I prefer it to having a goalie on the bench that I tremble at the thought of having to have a start to rest our francise man. Do you Racicot backing up Roy? That was a bigger problem in my eye. Guy was actually a decent goalie. bad first game stuck with him for life. I never felt comfortable with him in nets because he always looked uncomfortable. I say stick with both for as long as they are both happy here. At some point one will go. Sanford is a capable backup to whoever wins out, and Desjardins is going to fight for the spot in a couple years, just as the goalie who stays probably becomes too expensive. We have no issue what so ever in that position. Oh, and I will take too many defenceman over too few....

Our jump 4th and for that matter 3rd line are leading the their conference in the AHL. Don't want to rush them now, do we?

ya in the AHL not NHL!!

[jackp]

WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! This post deals with the Halak/Price situation. DO NOT READ if you are fed up or bored with this discussion.

-------------------------------------------------

Today's Gazette (Jan30) continues the "polite" vendetta against Price and for Halak (both Hickey and Todd).

One very telling quote from Todd:

"A few fans last week accused me of “hating” Carey Price. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I was proud to cover the first regular-season game Price played for the Canadiens, on the road in Pittsburgh, because I thought I was seeing history. Like many others, I was fooled into believing that he might be a great one.

By now, I am heartily weary of the whole Price/Halak debate, especially of the obscene verbal abuse and mind-numbing justifications Price’s defenders trot out every time their overgrown baby draws a little flak.

But while I no longer believe Price has the inner stuff to be a great goalie, I still think he could be a good goaltender. I simply believe that it’s bad for Price and bad for the club when he’s handed a job he hasn’t earned – not once, but over and over again....

You can’t blame Price, or not entirely. From the first day he arrived in Montreal, Bob Gainey has done everything in his power to give Price a sense of entitlement. Why work hard when you keep getting the starts, win or lose?"

While I think Todd is being a little harsh here, there is a lot of truth in what he says. Read the full article for a more in-depth comment.

Edited January 30, 2010 by jackp

[Colin]

There are grains of truth in there, Jack. However, at the end of the day, this story can have no validity because of two very simple words:

Jack.

Todd.

'Nuff said.

[ForumGhost]

There are grains of truth in there, Jack. However, at the end of the day, this story can have no validity because of two very simple words:

Jack.

Todd.

'Nuff said.

Yeah, he's a hack. I like how he defines Price as not possibly being able to be a great goaltender without qualifying it in the slightest, stating it as though it's just common fact.

Edited January 30, 2010 by ForumGhost

[Colin]

Yeah, he's a hack. I like how he defines Price as not possibly being able to be a great goaltender without qualifying it in the slightest, stating it as though it's just common fact.

He probably would have said the same about Fleury at about the same age.

[bar]

I love how people in the media STILL talk about montreals goaltending...STILL talking about it, like it's the problem. How can they be so blind to see goaltening is list number #9 of #10 issues with this team.

I cannot figure out media people, what they want from Price.

He shows emotion, breaks a stick at practice, punches a wall....he just to mature and grow up.

He keeps his emotions in check, tries to be like a roboto....he needs to show more heart, more desire, more passion.

This kid cannot win, and I feel for him. I feel for Halak, this is not an ideal situation for him, he's getting more starts now, so should just be happy.

[jackp]

He probably would have said the same about Fleury at about the same age.

See, I still don't think Fleury's a great goalie. I think he's a good goalie who benefits from being on a great team (much like Osgood previously).