Halak the key?

[jackp]

I want both goalies to succeed, I do not want Price to succeed at the expense of Halak, but that seems like what has to happen, the same way you want to see Halak succeed at the expense of Price.

You *still* don't get it, do you? I don't want anyone to succeed at *the expense of the other.* I want to see the best goalie playing, so that the Habs will win more games. If Halak started going south, and Price starting playing great, I would switch to Price so fast, your head would spin. I have no *personal* preference for either guy. I just want to see the goalie play who gives us the best chance to win, PERIOD. And I'm not interested in "developing" a guy, at the expense of the team. We've done enough of that already.

[jackp]

Personally, I fully believe that whichever goalie we stick with will become mired in mediocrity while the one we get rid of will become a Vezina winner.

Now, now fanpuck33, it hasn't been that bad. I know we're all still simmering from that Leclair trade years ago (which I was against, BTW - at the time, people kept saying we got the best player in the trade, namely Recchi. I never agreed with that.)

That Pouliot trade will turn out to be a darn good one, for example. And the one that brought us Hamrlik was pretty good too. Hey, dare I say Gomez for Higgins? I've been down on this one but I'm starting to think I was wrong... (Of course if our high draft pick turns out to be good, well...)

[jackp]

I think Price has more of a future in the NHL. I don't dislike either. I know this is your favourite subject, and frankly I don't know why I bother to answer you. I guess i'm bored. The idea of not liking Price at this stage in his career is just as arbritrary as saying either of them has a chance of being anything but .500 goaltenders. There are way bigger issues on the team than goaltending. I would not trade either in a non-cap world, but because we have the number 1 AHL goaltender in Dejardains, maybe trading Halak at the end of the year would be an option.

Right now Halak is the better goalie. I feel much better watching him in net. I have more confidence. Right now. Please save this post and in 2012, we can look at it again. If Price is in the minors, because he is a useless bum, I will congratulate you for ranting nonstop about the subject. If he is good, (which I think he will be), you can .......Well, you know!

I stayed away from this topic for over a month, but hey, perception is everything. And I don't answer because I'm bored. I guess I'm not as intellectual as you. I answer because the topic piques my interest. And I'd rather be jawing with you guys than marking exams, that's for sure!

As far as the 2012 issue is concerned, I would *love* Price to turn his game around and even out-perform what Halak is doing now. Because that would mean we'd have even better goaltending which would mean even more victories. As stated before, I have no personal interest in either goalie. I just want the best one to play.

[jackp]

not a single person on this site including me would of penciled us in 8th spot with all of markov, gionta, gill, obyrne, kostitsyn and gomez/ hammer missing considerable amounts of games played.

Lots of teams have had injuries. We are not deep, that's for sure. And it's hard to put a finger on this team. One night, they're beating NJ in NJ. Another night, they're getting killed 6-2. I think we're too small, but that's the only thing I feel with any degree of certainty. Nothing this team will do, good or bad, will surprise me because they're so unpredictable.

[bar]

You *still* don't get it, do you? I don't want anyone to succeed at *the expense of the other.* I want to see the best goalie playing, so that the Habs will win more games. If Halak started going south, and Price starting playing great, I would switch to Price so fast, your head would spin. I have no *personal* preference for either guy. I just want to see the goalie play who gives us the best chance to win, PERIOD. And I'm not interested in "developing" a guy, at the expense of the team. We've done enough of that already.

Your words say this, but your tone and attitude say something completely different.

[jackp]

Your words say this, but your tone and attitude say something completely different.

Listen, the only guy I felt bad about losing for other than hockey reasons was Kovalev. He loved Montreal and he did a lot for the community. Having said that, we came out ahead in that deal by getting Camallieri.

Why would you think I prefer either goalie for anything else than performance? If I've sounded strident for Halak, it's because he's been treated so unfairly in the past, *and* he was out-performing Price while he was being treated thusly. If their performance had even been equal, I wouldn't have cared if Halak rode the pine more. But that's not what happened.

Last year, Price got hurt and Halak almost single-handely got us into the playoffs when we were being outshot badly. The moment Price got better, he was put in nets, and I don't think we won another game last year. That, to me, is being treated unfairly.

[bar]

So ALL your arguments are because some great unjustice was done? If you were as true as you claim to be you wouldn't hind behind stats, stats which can be manipulated. I mean I can't believe you're actually sticking to this story of you don't prefer either one.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

i've been reading posts for 5 yrs and i have never in the easy 50,000 posts i've read seen 1 single guy(jackp) lobby for a player (halak) then he does. countless posts lobbying for halak while all the while stating he'd be happy if price took the reins to!!

b.s. i 'm starting to think he's not allen walsh or jack todd but jaroslav halak himself !!!

[Colin]

Theo's decline was due to his hair. Propecia induced paralysis.

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

my hairstylist said i was starting to bald... maybe i can get my hands on some too

[Wamsley01]

I don't think Theo's decline was mainly due to hockey reasons, but more because of controversy/attitude problems/stress and stuff like that. Had he played in a different market, Theodore might still be a Vezina calibre goalie.

Either way, whether it was Theodore or Vokoun who turned out to be the better goalie, the Habs made the right decision. The GM that made the call can not be blamed with hindsight. Think of a poker hand: you have pocket aces and somebody goes all in before the flop. You call. Whether you win or lose the hand, you're not to blame - you made the best decision given the information you had at the time. This is how most of Gainey's decisions are (/were).

Scout's word and pedigree still need to be taken into consideration. When a player is that far ahead of the learning curve for someone his age, you have to play the odds. Banking totally on the guy that was drafted earliest is foolish. Completely ignoring pedigree is even more foolish. You can't fold pocket aces! If it turns out that Halak is an elite NHL goalie in a few years and Price is in Europe, it won't change my mind about what should have been done now given what we know now.

:clap:

Bulis, this may be the best post you have ever made.

This is EXACTLY the point! Choosing Halak over Price right now is a decision based on a gamble.

Fans make this decision easily because they have ZERO stake. If they are wrong, they either lie and say they never said it

or they say...oops, I was wrong. No skin off their ass either way.

Choosing Theodore was the proper choice. You don't trade away an asset who AT THE TIME was superior to Vokoun and had a better resume.

He won an MVP award before his career derailed. Theo had been outstanding leading Canada to a World Junior Championship and in their second

AHL season (1997-98) his numbers were superior to Vokoun's. (2.85 GAA to 3.11 and .918 SV% to .907).

They were also the same age, so it differs slightly than Price/Halak right now.

The francophone kid with the better pedigree and better stats was the right choice. Then and NOW, anything else is revisionist history.

Right now, everybody is comparing Halak to Price as though they are both 24 years old. Halak has been a .500 goaltender against teams

above .500 in his career. Price has every accolade you can win before entering the NHL, his numbers historically are unmatched for his age

and he is showing signs of inconsistency like EVERY 22 year old goaltender in history. Go take a look at the immortal Martin Brodeur's SV% at the

age of 22 on a Stanley Cup champion team (it is .902 for those to lazy). Go gander at Roberto Luongo's .915 and 2.77 GAA at the age of 22,

not so far removed from Price's .913 and 2.73 is it.

The discussion is absurd. You do not trade Price right now. Not one person on this board knows how this is going to turn out, but you make your

decision based on the info you have collected to this point. Like it or not, that info points to Carey Price. You don't base decisions on hunches or

fear that last time it didn't work out. You use the info in front of you. Until Halak beats the Washington/Pittsburgh/Chicago's of the leagues

or offers up something better than a .903 SV%, he is a QUESTION MARK, not the sure thing he is made out to be.

For every Vokoun and Kiprusoff, there are 10-20 Martin Gerber, Martin Biron and Vesa Toskala's.

Edited January 26, 2010 by Wamsley01

[IN THE HEARTS OF MEN]

:clap:

Bulis, this may be the best post you have ever made.

This is EXACTLY the point! Choosing Halak over Price right now is a decision based on a gamble.

Fans make this decision easily because they have ZERO stake. If they are wrong, they either lie and say they never said it

or they say...oops, I was wrong. No skin off their ass either way.

Choosing Theodore was the proper choice. You don't trade away an asset who AT THE TIME was superior to Vokoun and had a better resume.

He won an MVP award before his career derailed. Theo had been outstanding leading Canada to a World Junior Championship and in their second

AHL season (1997-98) his numbers were superior to Vokoun's. (2.85 GAA to 3.11 and .918 SV% to .907).

They were also the same age, so it differs slightly than Price/Halak right now.

The francophone kid with the better pedigree and better stats was the right choice. Then and NOW, anything else is revisionist history.

Right now, everybody is comparing Halak to Price as though they are both 24 years old. Halak has been a .500 goaltender against teams

above .500 in his career. Price has every accolade you can win before entering the NHL, his numbers historically are unmatched for his age

and he is showing signs of inconsistency like EVERY 22 year old goaltender in history. Go take a look at the immortal Martin Brodeur's SV% at the

age of 22 on a Stanley Cup champion team (it is .902 for those to lazy). Go gander at Roberto Luongo's .915 and 2.77 GAA at the age of 22,

not so far removed from Price's .913 and 2.73 is it.

The discussion is absurd. You do not trade Price right now. Not one person on this board knows how this is going to turn out, but you make your

decision based on the info you have collected to this point. Like it or not, that info points to Carey Price. You don't base decisions on hunches or

fear that last time it didn't work out. You use the info in front of you. Until Halak beats the Washington/Pittsburgh/Chicago's of the leagues

or offers up something better than a .903 SV%, he is a QUESTION MARK, not the sure thing he is made out to be.

For every Vokoun and Kiprusoff, there are 10-20 Martin Gerber, Martin Biron and Vesa Toskala's.

AMEN

wamsley put this sh*t to bed finally........

Halak needs to become a world beater to unearth what price has accomplished already at this tender age.

[Toronthab]

:clap:

Bulis, this may be the best post you have ever made.

This is EXACTLY the point! Choosing Halak over Price right now is a decision based on a gamble.

Fans make this decision easily because they have ZERO stake. If they are wrong, they either lie and say they never said it

or they say...oops, I was wrong. No skin off their ass either way.

Choosing Theodore was the proper choice. You don't trade away an asset who AT THE TIME was superior to Vokoun and had a better resume.

He won an MVP award before his career derailed. Theo had been outstanding leading Canada to a World Junior Championship and in their second

AHL season (1997-98) his numbers were superior to Vokoun's. (2.85 GAA to 3.11 and .918 SV% to .907).

They were also the same age, so it differs slightly than Price/Halak right now.

The francophone kid with the better pedigree and better stats was the right choice. Then and NOW, anything else is revisionist history.

Right now, everybody is comparing Halak to Price as though they are both 24 years old. Halak has been a .500 goaltender against teams

above .500 in his career. Price has every accolade you can win before entering the NHL, his numbers historically are unmatched for his age

and he is showing signs of inconsistency like EVERY 22 year old goaltender in history. Go take a look at the immortal Martin Brodeur's SV% at the

age of 22 on a Stanley Cup champion team (it is .902 for those to lazy). Go gander at Roberto Luongo's .915 and 2.77 GAA at the age of 22,

not so far removed from Price's .913 and 2.73 is it.

The discussion is absurd. You do not trade Price right now. Not one person on this board knows how this is going to turn out, but you make your

decision based on the info you have collected to this point. Like it or not, that info points to Carey Price. You don't base decisions on hunches or

fear that last time it didn't work out. You use the info in front of you. Until Halak beats the Washington/Pittsburgh/Chicago's of the leagues

or offers up something better than a .903 SV%, he is a QUESTION MARK, not the sure thing he is made out to be.

For every Vokoun and Kiprusoff, there are 10-20 Martin Gerber, Martin Biron and Vesa Toskala's.

Nice posts you guys. I particularly like the critical reminder that a GM's job is to make the right decisions, not to have them succeed. This frustrates the irrational , emotional side of us, but that's the deal. Mr G has the inenviable, or perhaps enviable job of inching up a slippery slope, advancing the team, using all available criteria for decisions and without the luxury of being able to go for a year or three with draft loading cellar dwelling. The Canadiens respect the fact that they are Les Canadiens and they will play hockey as best they can while other teams scoop the prospects. It takes phenomenal skill to manage this team and make a run for it as we did just a couple of years ago.

I am very pleased with how things were handled, including the ballsy move selecting Price and his sticking with him. Atta go Bob!

[Habsy]

Wamsley. You simply don't post enough!!! Now we can all move onto something else!!!

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Actually, I agree with Wamsley and BTH All I'm saying is that my confidence in the 'received wisdom' of scouts and experts is less than secure, especially where goalies are concerned. In that sense, I might be more open to 'hunches' or gut instinct by the managerial people closest to the players involved - but obviously I'm not saying to ignore the scouts or the pedigree. (As I noted in my post, nothing in what I said necessarily translates into an argument that we should move Price).

And I really like BTH's point about the GM making the best decision with the information available ('make the right decisions, not have them succeed'). Bob's made his share of mistakes, but far too many fans judge Gainey's moves retroactively on the basis of outcome, rather than initial reasonableness given the info at hand, which is the real measure. Most (not all) of Bob's moves have been entirely reasonable.

In any case: while I wouldn't be shocked out of my mind if Halak is moved, he's only an RFA. His agent's griping has subsided. There is no overwhelming need to trade him this season. So the odds seem to be that we'll go into next season with both guys...which does raise the question of why people keep talking about trading either of 'em.

Edited January 26, 2010 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[jackp]

i've been reading posts for 5 yrs and i have never in the easy 50,000 posts i've read seen 1 single guy(jackp) lobby for a player (halak) then he does. countless posts lobbying for halak while all the while stating he'd be happy if price took the reins to!!

b.s. i 'm starting to think he's not allen walsh or jack todd but jaroslav halak himself !!!

Okay, why don't you check all of my posts? When Price played well this year, I credited him. The game that he stole, I said he stole it for us. If I appear to be predominantly for Halak, it's because he's predominantly played better than Price. It's as simple as that.

Why in god's name would I prefer one over the other, *except for the criterion of performance?*

And I would *not* be happy if Price took the reins now because he isn't *performing* as well as Halak. I never said I would be happy. I said *if he started to outperform Halak,* THEN I would be happy. Because it would be good for the team.

This is the about the 6th post where I've said this. Are you purposely misinterpreting what I'm saying? I understand that there's a bandwagon thing going on here, so if that's what happening - fine, as Churchill said, "I can take it." (I admit it does help that most of Habs nation, outside of this board, feels like I do. So you can denigrate me, Jack Todd, Dave Stubbs, Red Fisher, and the myriads of other Habs fans I know outside of this board, all you want. I really don't care.)

[jackp]

:clap:

Bulis, this may be the best post you have ever made.

This is EXACTLY the point! Choosing Halak over Price right now is a decision based on a gamble.

Fans make this decision easily because they have ZERO stake. If they are wrong, they either lie and say they never said it

or they say...oops, I was wrong. No skin off their ass either way.

Choosing Theodore was the proper choice. You don't trade away an asset who AT THE TIME was superior to Vokoun and had a better resume.

He won an MVP award before his career derailed. Theo had been outstanding leading Canada to a World Junior Championship and in their second

AHL season (1997-98) his numbers were superior to Vokoun's. (2.85 GAA to 3.11 and .918 SV% to .907).

They were also the same age, so it differs slightly than Price/Halak right now.

The francophone kid with the better pedigree and better stats was the right choice. Then and NOW, anything else is revisionist history.

Right now, everybody is comparing Halak to Price as though they are both 24 years old. Halak has been a .500 goaltender against teams

above .500 in his career. Price has every accolade you can win before entering the NHL, his numbers historically are unmatched for his age

and he is showing signs of inconsistency like EVERY 22 year old goaltender in history. Go take a look at the immortal Martin Brodeur's SV% at the

age of 22 on a Stanley Cup champion team (it is .902 for those to lazy). Go gander at Roberto Luongo's .915 and 2.77 GAA at the age of 22,

not so far removed from Price's .913 and 2.73 is it.

The discussion is absurd. You do not trade Price right now. Not one person on this board knows how this is going to turn out, but you make your

decision based on the info you have collected to this point. Like it or not, that info points to Carey Price. You don't base decisions on hunches or

fear that last time it didn't work out. You use the info in front of you. Until Halak beats the Washington/Pittsburgh/Chicago's of the leagues

or offers up something better than a .903 SV%, he is a QUESTION MARK, not the sure thing he is made out to be.

For every Vokoun and Kiprusoff, there are 10-20 Martin Gerber, Martin Biron and Vesa Toskala's.

I agree. Don't trade either at this point. Having said that, Walmsley you've preferred Price every step of the way. I find it amusing that you act like you're objective. You've gone into long and exhaustive analyses last year, showing the fallacies in Halak's style compared to Price. Then there's the age issue for example... Halak is *2* years older than Price, and you make a big deal about that!!!

You quote stats for Vokoun/Theodore to support your argument but you've jumped all over me in the past when I used stats to compare Halak/Price. Why is that? (BTW it's disingenuous to compare the 2 situations. Theodore had won an NHL MVP award. Last time I looked, Price hadn't.

Ditto for your quoting of stats of other great goalies when they were 22. So stats are only good when you quote them?

Finally, I never said Halak is a sure thing. I said that it *appears* to me that he is going to be a better goalie than Price. I don't know where you get that all indications are Price is gonna be a better goalie! This is where we fundamentally disagree.

I personally wouldn't trade either. When I said why not trade Price instead, I was responding to all those people here who were saying we should trade Halak. It annoys me when people want to trade away the goalie who is playing better right now. I want to keep Price in the off-chance that you're correct and he does turn out to be better. But I don't want him playing too much right now until he gets better. And I'm not willing to turn the Habs into a "Carey Price development team."

(And to all those who are sick of this discussion - who in god's name is forcing you to read? The threads' have titles. You can pretty much guess what's gonna be in them. If you don't like the topic, don't click on the thread. It's as simple as that. Personally, I enjoy the discussion, even when I strongly disagree. That's why I read it and that's why I respond. There *are* other threads that I don't touch because they don't interest me. I don't go into them and complain how boring they are, etc. etc.)

[jackp]

I am very pleased with how things were handled, including the ballsy move selecting Price and his sticking with him. Atta go Bob!

I admit I was slightly disappointed that he didn't take a power forward, as I saw this as a big need. However, like you, I didn't quibble about his picking Price. The most critical position is goalie, and when I saw how well Price was doing in junior, I was happy with the choice at the time. (What's really ironic, is that I would have preferred to get Pouliot then, and we ended up getting him after all.)

Do you remember that draft? I was getting so excited when we kept "climbing up the ladder." I had visions of Sydney Crosby dancing in my head. We almost made it. I think we were 6th, right? Pittsburgh's really lucky that way - first Lemieux, years ago = Stanley Cup, and now Crosby = another Stanley Cup. Like Beliveau once said, "I'd rather be lucky than good."

[Dalhabs]

First of all I cheer for Price staying because of age and potential.

I hope Gainey is asking around what he could get for BOTH goalies. If the return is ALOT better for Price then trade him. If Halak starts playing worse it wont be that hard to replace a goalie or get a new number one. But if we can get a topnotch prospect or a superstar player at the right age for Price that we cant get for Halak Id say trade Price.

[JCPetit]

:clap:

Bulis, this may be the best post you have ever made.

This is EXACTLY the point! Choosing Halak over Price right now is a decision based on a gamble.

Fans make this decision easily because they have ZERO stake. If they are wrong, they either lie and say they never said it

or they say...oops, I was wrong. No skin off their ass either way.

Choosing Theodore was the proper choice. You don't trade away an asset who AT THE TIME was superior to Vokoun and had a better resume.

He won an MVP award before his career derailed. Theo had been outstanding leading Canada to a World Junior Championship and in their second

AHL season (1997-98) his numbers were superior to Vokoun's. (2.85 GAA to 3.11 and .918 SV% to .907).

They were also the same age, so it differs slightly than Price/Halak right now.

The francophone kid with the better pedigree and better stats was the right choice. Then and NOW, anything else is revisionist history.

Right now, everybody is comparing Halak to Price as though they are both 24 years old. Halak has been a .500 goaltender against teams

above .500 in his career. Price has every accolade you can win before entering the NHL, his numbers historically are unmatched for his age

and he is showing signs of inconsistency like EVERY 22 year old goaltender in history. Go take a look at the immortal Martin Brodeur's SV% at the

age of 22 on a Stanley Cup champion team (it is .902 for those to lazy). Go gander at Roberto Luongo's .915 and 2.77 GAA at the age of 22,

not so far removed from Price's .913 and 2.73 is it.

The discussion is absurd. You do not trade Price right now. Not one person on this board knows how this is going to turn out, but you make your

decision based on the info you have collected to this point. Like it or not, that info points to Carey Price. You don't base decisions on hunches or

fear that last time it didn't work out. You use the info in front of you. Until Halak beats the Washington/Pittsburgh/Chicago's of the leagues

or offers up something better than a .903 SV%, he is a QUESTION MARK, not the sure thing he is made out to be.

For every Vokoun and Kiprusoff, there are 10-20 Martin Gerber, Martin Biron and Vesa Toskala's.

You do not trade Price. You're right. It's an easy decision. Every NHL GMs would make the same.

Edited January 26, 2010 by JCPetit

[BlueKross]

I think the best scenario right know is to let the two goalies play it out. You are not going to lose either goalie this year. Maybe you hope for offer sheet. Of course there is always the possibility of a drop dead offer which is hard to refuse.

[saskhab]

I think the best scenario right know is to let the two goalies play it out. You are not going to lose either goalie this year. Maybe you hope for offer sheet. Of course there is always the possibility of a drop dead offer which is hard to refuse.

There's also the other possibility: a KHL offer for Halak. Or, a 3rd possibility: locking up both goalies makes us lose some other talent (Plekanec, Pouliot offer sheet, or S. Kostitsyn KHL offer).

Wamsley has made the very strong case for keeping Price long term over Halak. And I think there's a strong case to be made that by the entry draft we should have only one of those goalies on our roster.

[JoeLassister]

(And to all those who are sick of this discussion - who in god's name is forcing you to read? The threads' have titles. You can pretty much guess what's gonna be in them. If you don't like the topic, don't click on the thread. It's as simple as that. Personally, I enjoy the discussion, even when I strongly disagree. That's why I read it and that's why I respond. There *are* other threads that I don't touch because they don't interest me. I don't go into them and complain how boring they are, etc. etc.)

[brobin]

I don't see them trading Price, it is clearly too early. I just don't see the need to rush and trade Halak. He is playing well and he might even be our main guy going into the playoffs (see my optimism).

If I was Gainey, I would sit Halak down and tell him that if he is the best goalie in the 2nd half, he will get the opportunity to see what he can do in the playoffs. That is a great chance for him to raise his value and then if they can't come to an agreement on a contract, he will be willing to trade his rights to another team. This is a win win for us and Halak. It also puts it squarely on Halak to deliver.

As for all the BS spouted about their ages, it is nonsense. What does age have to do with it, it is experience. Price actually has more experience then Halak , he should be better. The diff between 22 and 24 is meaningless imo. Its not like a 20 year old goalie vs a 30 year old vet.

As for the wondrous achievements by Price so far.. well, I have seen nothing. He played well for the Canadian Jrs. He won the memorial cup, although there is no reason to believe that Halak couldn't of, he never got the chance. In any case, this is the NHL and Price has won nothing. He has put together some great games, some great strings of games, and some horrible stretches. I don't hold this against him, it is expected for a young goalie. I notice that when Halak has a bad game, it is usually given as evidence of his inferior capabilities. Silly. They are both inexperienced. They both need more development.

The only issue hanging over Price which might be a reason for trading him is if he wants out. If he needs a fresh start and wants out, then Gainey may have no choice but to move him and get as much back as possible. I sure hope that is not the case, but there are times when GMs do what appears to be dumb because they have more info at their finger tips then we do.

[hab29RETIRED]

:clap:

Bulis, this may be the best post you have ever made.

This is EXACTLY the point! Choosing Halak over Price right now is a decision based on a gamble.

Fans make this decision easily because they have ZERO stake. If they are wrong, they either lie and say they never said it

or they say...oops, I was wrong. No skin off their ass either way.

Choosing Theodore was the proper choice. You don't trade away an asset who AT THE TIME was superior to Vokoun and had a better resume.

He won an MVP award before his career derailed. Theo had been outstanding leading Canada to a World Junior Championship and in their second

AHL season (1997-98) his numbers were superior to Vokoun's. (2.85 GAA to 3.11 and .918 SV% to .907).

They were also the same age, so it differs slightly than Price/Halak right now.

The francophone kid with the better pedigree and better stats was the right choice. Then and NOW, anything else is revisionist history.

Right now, everybody is comparing Halak to Price as though they are both 24 years old. Halak has been a .500 goaltender against teams

above .500 in his career. Price has every accolade you can win before entering the NHL, his numbers historically are unmatched for his age

and he is showing signs of inconsistency like EVERY 22 year old goaltender in history. Go take a look at the immortal Martin Brodeur's SV% at the

age of 22 on a Stanley Cup champion team (it is .902 for those to lazy). Go gander at Roberto Luongo's .915 and 2.77 GAA at the age of 22,

not so far removed from Price's .913 and 2.73 is it.

The discussion is absurd. You do not trade Price right now. Not one person on this board knows how this is going to turn out, but you make your

decision based on the info you have collected to this point. Like it or not, that info points to Carey Price. You don't base decisions on hunches or

fear that last time it didn't work out. You use the info in front of you. Until Halak beats the Washington/Pittsburgh/Chicago's of the leagues

or offers up something better than a .903 SV%, he is a QUESTION MARK, not the sure thing he is made out to be.

For every Vokoun and Kiprusoff, there are 10-20 Martin Gerber, Martin Biron and Vesa Toskala's.

Theo was the right choice, but he should have been moved if it was true that Atlanta was willing to move their #1 (Kovulchuk), for a package that included Theo.

As far as who to keep from Halak and Price - I wouldn't move either right now. I'd hate to see Halak traded to someone like the flyers and see him lead them to the promise land in playoffs. I'm also not sold on whether Price has the mental toughness to succeed IN MONTREAL. Right now, I'd hang on to them both, as they are both RFA's and I'd give Halek a much harder look if we do get into the playoffs to see how he does.

I hate the constant rehashing of Price's WJ, Calder Cup, size talk, coz at the end of the day, all I want is to have the goalie who is going to win and has the confidence of the team in front of him.

For all the talk of World Junior success, who gives a shit!! How great did the careers of trevor Kidd (Damn we should have taken Marty!), Jimmy Waite, Stephane Fiset, Many Legace, Dan (five hole) Cloutier, Marc Denis and the great leaf hope Justin Pogge turn out??? Not a stanley cup or even a respectable playoff between them. Some of these guys even played on some pretty stacked teams.

As far as the technique/style/size of a goalie, i've got a simple two word answer - Dominic Hasek.

Short, scrawny, goalie with no accepted style late round pick, but despite playing with some great contemporaries (including my favourite - Roy), he was probably the most dominent goalie of his time when you look at the team he played on.

I think in Canada we over value world junior success when it comes to goalies. Let's face it, Canada usually has the most stacked lineup in the world.

Same goes for the Calder Cup, how much success have Nittimaki or Graheme had in the NHL?

Lastly the comment of Halak being more of a gample then Price. I think Gainey was the one who was gambling on Price (and lost) during the second half when he kept rolling the dice that Price would find his game and instead Price just looked more and more lost.

Edited January 26, 2010 by hab29RETIRED