Permanent Rumour Thread

[mathieu30]

I'm hearing stuff as well.

Mathieu Garon to:

Detroit, Tampa, Florida, Phoenix, Boston, Anaheim, Buffalo, Pittsburgh or Washington.

Wanna bet?

add Ottawa.

[beliveau1]

One man does not a team make.

Koivu has been dragging this carcass of a team for ages and now people turn and lay the blame on him...for shame.

BINGO - a bang on comment.....

(hey we agree and no need to block you )

Edited May 10, 2007 by beliveau1

[Athlétique.Canadien]

Here's a good example of the best not being the captain.

Recent history: Tim Taylor in TB.

Going back to 1992 - Randy Gilhen was captain of the PENS - not Mario Lemieux

Edited May 10, 2007 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[Sir_Boagalott]

Unfortunately I think Koivu's days just might be numbered in Montreal from what I just heard. Either that or he's rescinded to the 2nd line and probably loose the Captaincy.

This isnt new info, but Bob's an absolute genius.

Trading Rivet was a brilliant move. I'm thinking the Habs are going to get a way better return than previously thought from the repercussions of that trade alone. Its not exactly getting rid of Rivet that was important, it was specifically getting him to SJ.

IMO its Rivet's fault SJ lost that series. Rivet got a penalty for shooting the puck over the boards in games 3 and Det tied the game on that PP and went on to win that game, then series. SJ should have won that game, and if they had probably would have taken the series. IMO that was the exact turning point in that series.

So whats so brilliant aboot Rivet costing SJ a series you ask?

The funny thing is nobody seems to be blaming Rivent at all. Take a wild guess who is to blame though. I'll give ya's a hint: he had 0 points in the Det series, is a C, wears the C, and he parlez un Francais.

w00t w00t, this could be awesome.

[mathieu30]

I'll give ya's a hint: he had 0 points in the Det series, is a C, wears the C, and he parlez un Francais.

w00t w00t, this could be awesome.

Does Marleau speak French?

[BTH]

Unfortunately I think Koivu's days just might be numbered in Montreal from what I just heard. Either that or he's rescinded to the 2nd line and probably loose the Captaincy.

This isnt new info, but Bob's an absolute genius.

Trading Rivet was a brilliant move. I'm thinking the Habs are going to get a way better return than previously thought from the repercussions of that trade alone. Its not exactly getting rid of Rivet that was important, it was specifically getting him to SJ.

IMO its Rivet's fault SJ lost that series. Rivet got a penalty for shooting the puck over the boards in games 3 and Det tied the game on that PP and went on to win that game, then series. SJ should have won that game, and if they had probably would have taken the series. IMO that was the exact turning point in that series.

So whats so brilliant aboot Rivet costing SJ a series you ask?

The funny thing is nobody seems to be blaming Rivent at all. Take a wild guess who is to blame though. I'll give ya's a hint: he had 0 points in the Det series, is a C, wears the C, and he parlez un Francais.

w00t w00t, this could be awesome.

I bet you 10000000000000000000000000 dollars that none of this was staged AND that Rivet didn't lose the series for Sj AND that Wilson would love to keep Marleau AND that Gainey had no clue how far SJ would go AND who would score their goals.

[MAK]

Does Marleau speak French?

I dont think he doesn't, although he has a french name.

marc savard is another player with a french name that doesn't speak a word of it.

made a typo. corrected now

Edited May 12, 2007 by marky_and_komi

[dark_faerie87]

I dont think he does, although he has a french name.

marc savard is another player with a french name that doesn't speak a word of it.

I have a French name and I don't speak a word of it (well, not quite true).

[MAK]

I have a French name and I don't speak a word of it (well, not quite true).

yeah. for some reasons I though you were french...maybe it was your name, which I don't remember anyway.

[dark_faerie87]

yeah. for some reasons I though you were french...maybe it was your name, which I don't remember anyway.

I've mentioned it on several occasions. Yay for French racism in BC.

[saskhab]

Aneroid is not a Francophone community, and since I've never heard anything about Marleau being bilingual, I think it's safe to say that he only speaks English.

According to the last census, Aneroid only has 46 permanent residents, so it's pretty likely no one in the community speaks French fluently.

[Sir_Boagalott]

Does Marleau speak French?

umm, Marleau speaking French was the rumor.

The rest is actually true.

I bet you 10000000000000000000000000 dollars that none of this was staged AND that Rivet didn't lose the series for Sj AND that Wilson would love to keep Marleau AND that Gainey had no clue how far SJ would go AND who would score their goals.

It's a fact SJ was winning game 4 2-1 with minutes left to go in the game when Rivet shot the puck over the boards getting a stupid delay of game penalty. Another fact is Lang scored for Det during Rivets pen and tied the game 2-2, and Det went on to win it in OT. Seeing how SJ was just minutes away from winning that game, in which SJ would have taken a 3-1 stranglehold in the series, but didnt. Not only did SJ loose game 4, they didnt win another game in that series.

Please enlighten me Clulis_the_Habbie as to what was the turning point in the SJ-Det series?

[OneSharpMarble]

It's a fact SJ was winning game 4 2-1 with minutes left to go in the game when Rivet shot the puck over the boards getting a stupid delay of game penalty. Another fact is Lang scored for Det during Rivets pen and tied the game 2-2, and Det went on to win it in OT. Seeing how SJ was just minutes away from winning that game, in which SJ would have taken a 3-1 stranglehold in the series, but didnt. Not only did SJ loose game 4, they didnt win another game in that series.

Please enlighten me Clulis_the_Habbie as to what was the turning point in the SJ-Det series?

No you are entirely correct.

A couple months ago Gainey decided to send Rivet to San Jose because he knew that in the payoffs Rivet would make a mistake and cost San Jose a game that would then cause the entire team to fall apart and make them lose 4 games in a row. However no one would blame Rivet, he also knew that a consistant almost ppg player would play poorly in that series so everyone would turn their scorn on him even though he registers around 30 goals every year.

So after all of this he knew the Sharks would love nothing but to chase one of their best players and captain out. So where would they trade him to? Well he has a french name so he must have some vague desire to play for montreal right?

- Bob didn't know anything other than "Shit I better make it look like I am doing something" when he moved Rivet

- We aren't getting Marleau

- Rivet didn't lose that series, no one man can lose a series for a team

- Just because someone is french doesnt mean he gives a damn about the habs

[Sir_Boagalott]

You seem to be focusing on the lesser important things and over looking some of the more obvious.

A couple months ago Gainey decided to send Rivet to San Jose because he knew that in the payoffs Rivet would make a mistake and cost San Jose a game that would then cause the entire team to fall apart and make them lose 4 games in a row.

Rivet's cost teams their playoff run before. i.e. deflecting Stillmans shot so it handcuffed Huet, + his other blunder that year. It would be interesting to know just how many Delay of Game penalties Rivet has gotten in the last 2 years for shooting the puck over the boards?

he also knew that a consistant almost ppg player would play poorly in that series so everyone would turn their scorn on him even though he registers around 30 goals every year. So after all of this he knew the Sharks would love nothing but to chase one of their best players and captain out.

When a team under achieves, and the finger pointing begins, who generally gets blamed? Who does the team look up to for its inspiration, who failed to lead them onto where they were expected to go? umm, the Capitan?

A lot of people believed SJ could win the Cup this year. Marleux had 0 points, which works out great for Bob, but even if he had scored GWG's in the series the teamed still failed, and he's their leader. The blame always starts at the top. Captains are always blamed 1st.

So where would they trade him to? Well he has a french name so he must have some vague desire to play for montreal right?

Doesnt matter where a player wants to play when you've traded for him. Players play for the team that they are signed with (few silly ignorant exceptions). It's Montreal that wants him, not necessarily the other way around. SJ is unhappy with Marleux, and like you say, he is quite valuable, and he only has 1 year left on his contract, so why is it exactly that he is totally unmovable?

- Bob didn't know anything other than "Shit I better make it look like I am doing something" when he moved Rivet

Bob makes trades based on peer pressure? I bet SJ still think they got the better deal in the Rivet trade.

- Rivet didn't lose that series, no one man can lose a series for a team

Thats silly. Not only can one player loose a series, one bad action by one player can loose a series.

[beliveau1]

e

...

- Bob didn't know anything other than "Shit I better make it look like I am doing something" when he moved Rivet...

Gainey was faced with three potential UFA defenceman who form a part of their top 5.

Sound reasoning says that he knows the team cannot afford to resign all three of them and still pursue a good defenceman

to add to that mix. Financially that is not a viable option and everyone realizes that the current defensive corps is not good enough to compete seriously - few here will disagree with that assessment? As a result he made a choice to gain some return on at least one of those UFA's. In this case it was Rivet whom the Sharks were highly interested in from all indications.

Hoping to still make the playoffs he then chose to run with Souray who was one of the few offensive upsides on this team,

in spite of his defensive shortcomings. And who says a definite trade involving Souray was actually there to begin with? Remember it is only rumours if it doesn't come to fruition? He may have reasoned that a spot in the playoffs was more likely with Souray's power play contributions, than it would be with Rivet's assets? As a result he may have been willing to run that risk and try to resign Souray as well as Markov, whom the vast majority feel is their number one priority behind the blue line. And in the new NHL it is hard to deny the fact that power play specialist are important assets to have? Gainey may have felt that he has a good foundation to work off of with Komisarek and Markov(if signed), and by adding a good young defenceman by trade or free agency the actual groundwork would be set?

At present Souray's departure is still unconfirmed and it won't be known for some time apparently if he will resign or not. Anything now is pure speculation, unless it comes from the mouth of Souray himself. Should he resign then it will not be as bad as if he were to simply walk with no return. Hindsight is always 20/20. And if he does then it will be easy to say he should have been traded for something in return. Unfortunately in a competitive market some losses are a part of doing business. Taking a risk is sometimes part of the cost involved?

Was Gainey right = time will tell us that.

Is Gainey infallible in my opinion = definitely not!

But was Gainey panicking at the point when he dealt Rivet - absolutely not. How many here would have been bold enough to predict that he could ever have hoped to extract a decent young defensive prospect and a first rounder for an aging middle of the road defenceman like Rivet?

No, Gainey was not in panic mode - he was just buying when he had a pretty good deal in front of him.

As for the rest of your points on the deal - I'd have to say I agree. Rivet's blunder may have been a factor but it was not the sole cause of their elimination.....

Edited May 14, 2007 by beliveau1

[Chris]

BG will not give up the youth for a possible playoff spot. Especially an 8 seed.

You may see a few more vets leaving soon.

i did see a rumor for Marleau this morning. Totally ridiculous for Higgins or Price.

[OneSharpMarble]

You seem to be focusing on the lesser important things and over looking some of the more obvious.

Rivet's cost teams their playoff run before. i.e. deflecting Stillmans shot so it handcuffed Huet, + his other blunder that year. It would be interesting to know just how many Delay of Game penalties Rivet has gotten in the last 2 years for shooting the puck over the boards?

Yeah Rivet goes into every game with the mindset of "How can I cause a single incident that will destroy this team mentally" That has been his career goal for every playoffs. Gainey knew Rivet would find a way to crush San Jose! Genious! Rivet deflected that shot in on purpose and loves taking penalties at bad times, those are the two things that have kept him playing in the nhl all these years!

When a team under achieves, and the finger pointing begins, who generally gets blamed? Who does the team look up to for its inspiration, who failed to lead them onto where they were expected to go? umm, the Capitan?

A lot of people believed SJ could win the Cup this year. Marleux had 0 points, which works out great for Bob, but even if he had scored GWG's in the series the teamed still failed, and he's their leader. The blame always starts at the top. Captains are always blamed 1st.

Geez Louise you are right! I guess we are gonna acquire quite a few captains soon. Lets see 15 teams will lose in the playoffs so thats....*types on calculator*....*breaks out the abacas*......15 new players!! We are gonna need to make room for all those team captains.

Doesnt matter where a player wants to play when you've traded for him. Players play for the team that they are signed with (few silly ignorant exceptions). It's Montreal that wants him, not necessarily the other way around. SJ is unhappy with Marleux, and like you say, he is quite valuable, and he only has 1 year left on his contract, so why is it exactly that he is totally unmovable?

Thats the best part, no matter how long you are with an organization they still treat you like a mule that they can ship off to the glue factory if they are giving an extra $5. Listen up, when you are a team captain and make millions of dollars and you are in the public eye for most of your career, organizations treat you like a son. They ask you where you would like to go, they don't tell you because they show respect for players who have played well for them in the past. Word among players gets around and if they hear you are disrespecting top tier talent for something as ridiculous as one bad playoff series good luck getting anyone to play for you.

Bob makes trades based on peer pressure? I bet SJ still think they got the better deal in the Rivet trade.

Thats silly. Not only can one player loose a series, one bad action by one player can loose a series.

The Rivet trade was an after thought, a non move, it was meaningless. He moved a mediocre dman, got a mediocre dman and a first rounder in a poor draft. No one player cannot lose a series even if that player deflects in a goal on his own net in OT in game seven. What caused the team to lose the three previous games and end up in OT in the seventh?

Go on blaming one player though, it's always the easiest route to avoid the real problem and single out a scapegoat.

Gainey was faced with three potential UFA defenceman who form a part of their top 5.

Sound reasoning says that he knows the team cannot afford to resign all three of them and still pursue a good defenceman

to add to that mix. Financially that is not a viable option and everyone realizes that the current defensive corps is not good enough to compete seriously - few here will disagree with that assessment? As a result he made a choice to gain some return on at least one of those UFA's. In this case it was Rivet whom the Sharks were highly interested in from all indications.

Hoping to still make the playoffs he then chose to run with Souray who was one of the few offensive upsides on this team,

in spite of his defensive shortcomings. And who says a definite trade involving Souray was actually there to begin with? Remember it is only rumours if it doesn't come to fruition? He may have reasoned that a spot in the playoffs was more likely with Souray's power play contributions, than it would be with Rivet's assets? As a result he may have been willing to run that risk and try to resign Souray as well as Markov, whom the vast majority feel is their number one priority behind the blue line. And in the new NHL it is hard to deny the fact that power play specialist are important assets to have? Gainey may have felt that he has a good foundation to work off of with Komisarek and Markov(if signed), and by adding a good young defenceman by trade or free agency the actual groundwork would be set?

At present Souray's departure is still unconfirmed and it won't be known for some time apparently if he will resign or not. Anything now is pure speculation, unless it comes from the mouth of Souray himself. Should he resign then it will not be as bad as if he were to simply walk with no return. Hindsight is always 20/20. And if he does then it will be easy to say he should have been traded for something in return. Unfortunately in a competitive market some losses are a part of doing business. Taking a risk is sometimes part of the cost involved?

Was Gainey right = time will tell us that.

Is Gainey infallible in my opinion = definitely not!

But was Gainey panicking at the point when he dealt Rivet - absolutely not. How many here would have been bold enough to predict that he could ever have hoped to extract a decent young defensive prospect and a first rounder for an aging middle of the road defenceman like Rivet?

No, Gainey was not in panic mode - he was just buying when he had a pretty good deal in front of him.

As for the rest of your points on the deal - I'd have to say I agree. Rivet's blunder may have been a factor but it was not the sole cause of their elimination.....

I'd agree on your assessment mostly. The way I see it Markov was a forsure signing, Souray should have been moved for a serious prospect or good rookie and Rivet could be kept or moved. Rivet really didn't matter one way or the other. Souray was the one that would make or break our deadline moves and the worst move of all was made in my mind. Now if we sign him for too much and too long he becomes our McCabe and could hinder this team for years to come. If we don't sign him he will walk for nothing. It's almost lose/lose. If we get him for cheap Gainey will pull this out of the fire.

I definitly believe that a trade was there and Gainey dropped the ball, if he truly is worth as much as everyone seems to think (which he isn't) than 16 teams should have been fighting for him, there was something there worth more than nothing. If Souray wanted to stay he would have signed by now, I am pretty sure he is already gone.

But I am saying nothing new here, man I miss habs hockey

[beliveau1]

...I'd agree on your assessment mostly. The way I see it Markov was a forsure signing, Souray should have been moved for a serious prospect or good rookie and Rivet could be kept or moved. Rivet really didn't matter one way or the other. Souray was the one that would make or break our deadline moves and the worst move of all was made in my mind. Now if we sign him for too much and too long he becomes our McCabe and could hinder this team for years to come. If we don't sign him he will walk for nothing. It's almost lose/lose. If we get him for cheap Gainey will pull this out of the fire.

I definitly believe that a trade was there and Gainey dropped the ball, if he truly is worth as much as everyone seems to think (which he isn't) than 16 teams should have been fighting for him, there was something there worth more than nothing. If Souray wanted to stay he would have signed by now, I am pretty sure he is already gone.

But I am saying nothing new here, man I miss habs hockey

For the most part we're pretty much on the same page here - stop the presses for a major announcement! I still have some doubts as to how viable the offers might have been on Souray - because they were never confirmed it just remains speculation either way unfortunately? I would say though that unless Gainey had some inside info on the possibility of resigning Souray, then obviously making a deal would have been of some benefit verses losing him for nothing. Question is, was what was being offered what Gainey wanted? I think in the long run though, that Gainey gambled on Souray's power play contributions more than he did on Rivet when it came to being able to push the team into the playoffs. The hope being that you get to the playoff and then who knows what? Either way it was definitely a gamble - one that some will like and others will hate.... so I'm glad I'm not in his shoes. As for dropping the ball - you are making that decision based on speculation that a good deal was available, and that it was beneficial to the team. I have to admit that while it is easy to jump to this conclusion, I would have to hedge my bet based on the lack of definitive proof that it was there to be made, but that's your opinion. We'll just have to part ways at that point.....

Edited May 14, 2007 by beliveau1

[Chris]

I read this morning that the Sharks are very interested in signing Souray.

I hope Markov's knee is allright, as bad as these guys are defensively they can't afford to lose this guy.

[saskhab]

I read this morning that the Sharks are very interested in signing Souray.

I hope Markov's knee is allright, as bad as these guys are defensively they can't afford to lose this guy.

You didn't just call Markov bad defensively, did you? Yikes.

[Chris]

No, i said the the group of 6 is very bad defensively. Markov is clearly the best D the habs have. They can't afford to lose him to free agency or injury.

That was more my point.

[Athlétique.Canadien]

What a bummer Habsworld can be sometimes. Souray sought by Sharks? Lovely. I should go hang out with my Leaf fan friends so they can say we are doomed, doomed - DOOMED. It wouldn't smart as bad as the sky falling here.

I can't wait for Souray to sign. That is; SOMEWHERE. It'll be nice to close this issue.

Also, from spectorshockey . net today:

THE LATEST CANADIENS NEWS.

LA PRESSE: Francois Gagnon reports Montreal Canadiens captain Saku Koivu clarified comments he'd made shortly after the team failed to qualify for the 2007 postseason, which were interpreted to mean he'd seek a trade if the club failed to make any notable improvements in the off-season. Koivu denied any thought of a trade, adding that he wants to make the Canadiens a winner and hopes to finish his career in Montreal. He did however say that it's important for the team to improve. Koivu also believes there's a place on the team for much-maligned forward Alex Kovalev, and stated he's had successful surgery to repair lingering damage from an eye injury suffered in last year's playoffs. Mathias Brunet reports negotiations are ongoing between the Habs and prospect Sergei Kostitsyn. The club has only two weeks to sign him to a contract otherwise he goes back into the draft, but head scout Trevor Timmons claimed he's not worried about getting a deal in place.

Edited May 16, 2007 by ATHLÉTIQUE.CANADIEN

[Tony]

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/article/20070516...1006/CPSPORTS01

O'Byrne aura de la compétition en défensive puisque les nouvelles semblent être bonnes en provenance de la Russie, malgré les relations houleuses entre la Fédération russe et la LNH. «Notre recruteur à Moscou, Nikolai Vakourov, vient de parler à Alexei Emelin et Pavel Valentenko, et les deux veulent faire le saut en Amérique du Nord la saison prochaine. Le cas de Valentenko est plus facile à régler parce qu'il n'est pas sous contrat là-bas, contrairement à Emelin, mais celui-ci est malheureux avec son club russe et il ne veut pas y retourner.»

[saskhab]

No, i said the the group of 6 is very bad defensively. Markov is clearly the best D the habs have. They can't afford to lose him to free agency or injury.

That was more my point.

OK. Phew... When you said "these guys", I thought you meant Souray & Markov, as they were the only 2 you talked about.

The forwards need to help out next year A LOT more, though. I'm confident in Plekanec and Higgins' two-way play improving, and Koivu has been a lot better before, but outside of whoever was on our designated checking line, the D got no support.

[Chris]

I did mean Souray. He has a great shot but worthless everywhere else on the ice. Not Markov.

Markov and Komi are the only 2 untouchables on D. i would like to see Gorges as well.