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Sorry man I gotta disagree.  When you have a 12 man roster a typical line-up has 2 scoring lines, a 2 way 3rd line and then an energy line for the fourth line.  Typically across the NHL when a top 2 line player is injured then another offensive player is inserted in his place.  When it's a 4th liner that goes down then another energy guy is inserted.

Martin seems absolutely reluctant to go with energy guys.  He'd rather play Gomez as a 4th line Lwer or Weber as a 4th line Rw'er then to insert a player who can bring energy, provide toughness and chip in with the odd goal.

In an ideal world it is great to have guys like Neil or Darren McCarty who scored around 10 goals a year and provided an element of toughness but these guys don;t come around often.  None the less it is the mold of almost every team in this league (unless you are the Wings) to go with energy guys on that 4th line.

Intimidation, hard forecheck, keeping people honest out there is still an extremely crucial component to hockey.

Sure it is an important component to quality hockey.  But I don't buy the argument that Jacques Martin is against these type of players.  We've seen Travis Moen rewarded with more and more ice time, with bigger roles, time and time again when the team is struggling and/or working its way through injuries.  There is no doubt that Moen, who is exactly the type of player you describe (high energy, fighting, hitting/forecheck, strong checking game, verteran).  We've also seen that when healthy Ryan White got plenty of ice time down the stretch and in the playoffs last year.  Sure Blunden was sent down... and Gomez and Weber are now playing fourth line.  But there is a big difference between Blunden and Moen or White.  Blunden is a liability out on the ice.  He is quite simply not an NHL caliber player and it was obvious in pre-season, and its been obvious in the games that he plays.  He is not at the level of Moen and White, and hence JM will prefer a talented player who maybe isn't as physical, over a physical player who quite simply can't hang in the NHL.I'm sure our team would love to have a McCarty (in his prime) or a Neil, or a Prust, or any number of tough players who can actually play hockey, but they aren't going to keep a guy with AHL talent around if they have other options.  If you can't contribute 8-10 minutes of solid hockey per night, there is no place for you on a JM team, and honestly, I don't have a problem with that.  The last thing I want is another Georges Laraque type on this team.

When the team can't rely on Blunden to provide more than 2-3 minutes per night, and not be a liability, it creates problems where our top guns like Plekanec, Max Pac, Cammy, Cole, etc... get overused, get fatigued, and become less effective on the ice. They become prone to making mistakes, and they take less offensive chances. The overuse and fatigue also leads to injuries over a long season. For those reasons its better to have guys who can actually skate with the other team's fourth liners. We think of a guy like Shawn Thornton on the Bruins as a goon, but he's not really... he's a far more talented fourth liner than he's given credit for, and he can actually play a decent 8-10 minutes a night. We need another guy like that. Not the Blundens, or the Laraques, or the often mentionned callup of Alex Henry.

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Im not saying Blunden is the answer but this off season there were plenty of names out there who would have paid huge dividends to our 4th line. Michael Rupp, Winchester, heck i would even take a guy like Ruutu. The entire hockey community sees what we need to address and this off season Gauthier acquired big bodies to fill those needs yet again Martin opts for more players that fit the same mold. Do we really need to dress Weber, Diaz, Spacek who are ultimately the same types of players.

When there is an apparently lack of of a true faceoff man then why tell Konopka twice that his services are not needed with this team. I don't want to see goons but I want to see players that will helps this club moving forward. Konopka is just an example of a player who would have helped on the PK, the faceoff circle and in the toughness category.

Just fed up of seeing everyone of this team except for Moen, Gorges and Gionta continuously back up when confronted physically. Our building is a breeze to play in and that's gotta change.

And don;t put Blunden in the Laraque category. Blunden was a top notch scorer in junior, was a top pick in the draft. The kid could play just needs to add some muscle and learn to protect the puck better,.

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Good post, Commandant.

If Martin has a healthy White at his disposal, and isn't using him much (or scratching him), then I think there's real question to be asked why. Blunden is just not on White or Moen's level. Just as Engqvist was not on Nokelainen's level.

I'm actually quite satisfied with the grit level amongst our forwards. We have two bonafide power forwards (Cole and Pacioretty), a strong man in Kostitsyn who can hit hard, fiesty little guys that are fearless in Plekanec and Gionta, and when healthy we should have some great depth options in Nokelainen and White. There's no one guy that scares opponents physically but its a better group than a lot of teams. On D, I think we're a little soft, though.

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Can we pleases stop bringing Zenon Konopka up?

We already take way to many penalties, why on earth would you want a guy who will just give the other team pp opportunities every night?

Like that Rangers game where he got a misconduct and then Rangers went out and scored two on the pp because he can't keep a cool head.

Sorry but honestly can we please not bring in a guy who can't keep his cool?

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Im not saying Blunden is the answer but this off season there were plenty of names out there who would have paid huge dividends to our 4th line.  Michael Rupp, Winchester, heck i would even take a guy like Ruutu.  The entire hockey community sees what we need to address and this off season Gauthier acquired big bodies to fill those needs yet again Martin opts for more players that fit the same mold.  Do we really need to dress Weber, Diaz, Spacek who are ultimately the same types of players.

We added players who fit the same mould? The addition of Erik Cole was made to bolster our offensive size, our hitting, our ability to stand in front of the net, and to bring a true power forward presence to the top 6 this offseason. I can't see how that is not to be considered when we talk about having a grittier team.

Pacioretty is playing way more minutes than last year and is expected to be on the team all season, this also adds new elements to the team.

No one could have predicted that Ryan White would get a hernia in training camp. He was expected to be a full time member of the big club, further adding size and physicality.

Meanwhile we signed Emelin to come in on defence. We added Tinordi, Beaulieu, Dietz, and Gallagher in recent drafts, all of whom can play a gritty game, and all of whom have shown fighting skill in junior.

The team is slowly addressing the need for physicality, but is doing so by finding players who bring both grittiness and talent. There is no room for talentless plugs.

When there is an apparently lack of of a true faceoff man then why tell Konopka twice that his services are not needed with this team.  I don't want to see goons but I want to see players that will helps this club moving forward. Konopka is just an example of a player who would have helped on the PK, the faceoff circle and in the toughness category.

Just fed up of seeing everyone of this team except for Moen, Gorges and Gionta continuously back up when confronted physically. Our building is a breeze to play in and that's gotta change.

Lets be clear here. Konopka is a guy who took more minor penalties/minute of ice time than any other regular NHL player last season. Sure the guy can fight and take faceoffs, but outside of those two aspects he is useless, and is actually a liability as he gives the opponent a ton of PP opportunities.

Winchester was -18 last year.... a -10 in very limited minutes with the Ducks (a playoff team) and might provide a few goals, but he's also a liability. I see 29 other teams didn't give him an NHL contract, and so, I think its recognized that he's not a valuable contributor either.

And don;t put Blunden in the Laraque category.  Blunden was a top notch scorer in junior, was a top pick in the draft.  The kid could play just needs to add some muscle and learn to protect the puck better,.

</p>Blunden is 24 years old and has been given up on by two other organizations. There are plenty of top scorers in junior who end up second round picks or higher, but can't play in the NHL. He is looking an awful lot like a career AHLer right now.

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Wow, I can't be the only one who thought that Blunden had a great training camp, or that the team played better when the 4th line played more minutes.

He knows his role and plays it well, in my opinion. I would have preferred he not get sent down until White got healthy. The hodgepodge 4th line of Nokelainen, a defenseman, and whoever is coming back from injury just isn't working well.

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Wow, I can't be the only one who thought that Blunden had a great training camp, or that the team played better when the 4th line played more minutes.

He knows his role and plays it well, in my opinion. I would have preferred he not get sent down until White got healthy. The hodgepodge 4th line of Nokelainen, a defenseman, and whoever is coming back from injury just isn't working well.

I thought Blunden had a good camp, and that he was quite effective in the first few games he played after getting called up. But you could start to see some holes in his game after a while, and I think JM was loathe to trust him with many minutes after that (which I feel was partially justified). Personally, I thought it was becoming clear that he wasn't quite ready for the NHL when he "hit" that Ranger, and that was pretty much the last we saw of him.

I do think that our smaller team needs a tough, grinding 4th line to keep the top 9 fresher and able to contribute more offensively. White's return should help immensely in this department, but who knows when he will be back, and when he will be effective again (he took a while to get into game shape after his last injury). I agree that our mismatched 4th line as it stands isn't working, but I don't think Blunden is the answer.... especially since it's practically a given that JM won't give him any ice-time.

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Can we pleases stop bringing Zenon Konopka up?

We already take way to many penalties, why on earth would you want a guy who will just give the other team pp opportunities every night?

Like that Rangers game where he got a misconduct and then Rangers went out and scored two on the pp because he can't keep a cool head.

Sorry but honestly can we please not bring in a guy who can't keep his cool?

Personally I don't like Konopka apart from one part of his game. I don't want to see a goon on this team but his great faceoff ability could have been a tremendous asset. I also don't think Konopka deters an opposing team from taken liberties because yes he has many fighting majors but the guy is not exactly a beast out there. Just using him as an example that there are attributes of certian players which could have been beneficial.

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I thought Blunden had a good camp, and that he was quite effective in the first few games he played after getting called up. But you could start to see some holes in his game after a while, and I think JM was loathe to trust him with many minutes after that (which I feel was partially justified). Personally, I thought it was becoming clear that he wasn't quite ready for the NHL when he "hit" that Ranger, and that was pretty much the last we saw of him.

I do think that our smaller team needs a tough, grinding 4th line to keep the top 9 fresher and able to contribute more offensively. White's return should help immensely in this department, but who knows when he will be back, and when he will be effective again (he took a while to get into game shape after his last injury). I agree that our mismatched 4th line as it stands isn't working, but I don't think Blunden is the answer.... especially since it's practically a given that JM won't give him any ice-time.

Building a 4th line with size is not a difficult thing to do. You need 3 guys who can create momentum with a great physical shift and who won't hurt you. These guys are a dime a dozen. But we are under a coaching staff who preferred to go with Pyatt on the 4th then White. Preferred to go with Engqvist then guys like Blunden.

Martin wants defensively responsibility ahead of anything else.

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I thought Blunden had a good camp, and that he was quite effective in the first few games he played after getting called up. But you could start to see some holes in his game after a while, and I think JM was loathe to trust him with many minutes after that (which I feel was partially justified). Personally, I thought it was becoming clear that he wasn't quite ready for the NHL when he "hit" that Ranger, and that was pretty much the last we saw of him.

I do think that our smaller team needs a tough, grinding 4th line to keep the top 9 fresher and able to contribute more offensively. White's return should help immensely in this department, but who knows when he will be back, and when he will be effective again (he took a while to get into game shape after his last injury). I agree that our mismatched 4th line as it stands isn't working, but I don't think Blunden is the answer.... especially since it's practically a given that JM won't give him any ice-time.

What was wrong with that hit??? If it wasn't too many men on the ice, it was a completely clean hit, that the rangers over-reacted to, because no one in this damn league is willing to take a clean hit anymore.

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What was wrong with that hit??? If it wasn't too many men on the ice, it was a completely clean hit, that the rangers over-reacted to, because no one in this damn league is willing to take a clean hit anymore.

I didn't say anything was wrong with the hit; I agree completely with your analysis. I just used quotations because Blunden wasn't credited with a hit on the play, as it was deemed an illegal play. My point was that hit seemed to be the last straw for JM, and Blunden rode the pine from that point on.

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I didn't say anything was wrong with the hit; I agree completely with your analysis. I just used quotations because Blunden wasn't credited with a hit on the play, as it was deemed an illegal play. My point was that hit seemed to be the last straw for JM, and Blunden rode the pine from that point on.

Oh okay, sorry, didn't pay attention to the quotes.

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Current rumour going around is Gomez for Lombardi and Komisarek.

Habs would do it, but I don't see why Toronto would want to.

Wow. There's an interesting deal. I can see them doing it to a degree - I think Gomez is somewhat stifled here, and playing with Kessel would probably allow him to play his game. Not sure what point there would be in getting back Lombardi, nor do I see why we saddle ourselves with Komi's pay check, but I suppose he would bring size to the back end, and maybe paired with Markov he could find his groove.

Course, it's a Mtl-Tor rumour, so the chances are pretty low of it even being jokingly discussed.

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Wow. There's an interesting deal. I can see them doing it to a degree - I think Gomez is somewhat stifled here, and playing with Kessel would probably allow him to play his game. Not sure what point there would be in getting back Lombardi, nor do I see why we saddle ourselves with Komi's pay check, but I suppose he would bring size to the back end, and maybe paired with Markov he could find his groove.

Course, it's a Mtl-Tor rumour, so the chances are pretty low of it even being jokingly discussed.

I think the point is that Gomez's cap hit is about equal to Komi + Lombardi.... and Komi/Gomez have the same amount of time left on their contracts, while Lombardi has one less year.

I think its trading one box of rotten apples, for a second box of equally rotten apples. I might do it, but I don't know it would have a big impact.

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Not sure what point there would be in getting back Lombardi, nor do I see why we saddle ourselves with Komi's pay check, but I suppose he would bring size to the back end, and maybe paired with Markov he could find his groove.

Good point. We should stay saddled with Gomez's larger pay cheque.

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Scott Gomez is completely useless, and the worst contract in the league. We'd have to sweeten the pot to make a deal. But Bob Gainey already did to acquire him. Sorry but we're all out of Ryan McDonaughs.

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wow, that'd be amazing.

komi isn't bad, he's just playing bad. big difference.

Komi is just like Quintal at the beginning of his career. he got ahead of himself thinking he could be a superstar. he's starting to realise he has to keep it simple. when that will be done, he'll be back on track fo' sur'.

Current rumour going around is Gomez for Lombardi and Komisarek.

Habs would do it, but I don't see why Toronto would want to.

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Well, I make that deal in one second. It's not that Komi or Lombardi are any great shakes, but the former strengthens our defensive depth and the latter is certainly no worse than Gomez. The big difference is you might actually be able to bury one or the other of these contracts in the minors if you had to. It's easier to manage two dubious contracts than one cataclysmically bad one; e.g., it's easier to trade either of those guys individually than Gomer; you could also buy Lomardi out without bankrupting yourself; etc..

The only risk, really, is that Gomez starts lighting it up in TO and you end up embarassed.

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Well, I make that deal in one second. It's not that Komi or Lombardi are any great shakes, but the former strengthens our defensive depth and the latter is certainly no worse than Gomez. The big difference is you might actually be able to bury one or the other of these contracts in the minors if you had to. It's easier to manage two dubious contracts than one cataclysmically bad one; e.g., it's easier to trade either of those guys individually than Gomer; you could also buy Lomardi out without bankrupting yourself; etc..

The only risk, really, is that Gomez starts lighting it up in TO and you end up embarassed.

Agreed 100%. The very fact that its two contracts instead of one, makes them a lot easier to deal with. As does the fact that Lombardi's expires one year earlier than the other two deals.

Lombardi can also be used as a top 9 winger or centre very easily.

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Current rumour going around is Gomez for Lombardi and Komisarek.

Habs would do it, but I don't see why Toronto would want to.

As much as I can't stand Gomez. don't like this at all. How many years do Komi and Lombardi have left and how much are they getting? Komi is getting what $4.5M, Lombardi around $4M?

New CBA at end of year will probably have one freebie buyout, to me that is when you get rid of Gomer. Doesn't his actual salary also drop. Should be easier to dump him if the new CBA doesn't give the out.

Scott Gomez is completely useless, and the worst contract in the league. We'd have to sweeten the pot to make a deal. But Bob Gainey already did to acquire him. Sorry but we're all out of Ryan McDonaughs.

:D don't know if i should laugh or cry :crazy:

Eklund had a Canes/Habs rumor earlier in the week, he didn't say what though.

I propose Gomez + prospect for Eric Staal. ;)

Nah why go after their best player. I suppose I could settle for Skinner. ;) What was the basis of peckland's rumour. PG and Rutherford were seen together at the bell centre? oh, wait the two teams are playing together and PG said hi to Rutherford when he saw him :D

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