The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 With the Habs' depth at D, I'd seriously consider a package involving Subban for Eric Staal. Provided, of course, the cap space situation can be worked out and what else would have to be included. But the element of risk associated with Subban developing into a top flight defenseman versus getting a proven stanley cup winning #1 center who big and skilled. He's all-world. Can we confidently say Subban is all-world? (Of course, I said seriously consider. This also depends on how Markov performs when he comes back, because we need one of Subban or Markov at the very least.) Man, I dunno. I really believe in building from the back end. Subban WILL become an elite defenceman, I believe. That's a damned tough call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Man, I dunno. I really believe in building from the back end. Subban WILL become an elite defenceman, I believe. That's a damned tough call. (you are the 10 000th reply in this thread. Congrats!) Yeah, it's a tough call for sure. But look 5 years down the line. Who do we have coming through the system at forward, or center specifically. And what about D? I agree you should build from the back end. But in this instance, if you have an opportunity to trade a promising youngster for an established, true #1 C who has won the cup. Do you do it? So much would need to happen, but it would be interesting. I seriously doubt Carolina would even deal Staal. BUt it's a fun discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 (you are the 10 000th reply in this thread. Congrats!) Yeah, it's a tough call for sure. But look 5 years down the line. Who do we have coming through the system at forward, or center specifically. And what about D? I agree you should build from the back end. But in this instance, if you have an opportunity to trade a promising youngster for an established, true #1 C who has won the cup. Do you do it? So much would need to happen, but it would be interesting. I seriously doubt Carolina would even deal Staal. BUt it's a fun discussion. Its a tough call but Subban is one of those very few kids who I don't consider trading at this point in his career. I look at him and think the sky is the limit with how good he could become, and I don't want to lose that. I don't see Staal as a top 5 centre in the NHL, i think Subban has the potential to be a top 5 Dman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I couldn't trade Subban. I believe he has Norris potential and could be the most dangerous defender in the NHL very soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I wouldn't ever trade Subban either, to much talent and just a great guy by all accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I would part with Subban. He's likely my fav player in the league next to Seabrook but despite a fondness of him given the right deal I would part with him. say fro instance Nashville is shopping Weber because they cannot afford him. I'd gladly give up Subban to make that deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Kessel seems to have no issue getting the puck to or from Joffrey Lupul. Kessel is doing great right now. I think they are looking for a center to compliment Kessel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Staal :lol: I like Commandant's analysis, but the guy's 26, 6'4, a Cup-winner and exactly what the doctor ordered for a team reviled as small down the middle and lacking physical presence. Add to that his chemistry with Cole and you've got an absolutely no-brainer acquisition for ye Habs. Of course, you'd absolutely have to dump the Baked Alaskan to make room for that contract, but you have to unload that contract sooner or later anyhow. The real issue with Staal is just that Carolina is going to want elite young talent back. Think MaxPac, or Subban. No thanks. I didn't know you couldn't bury Komi in the minors. In that case, that'd be a pretty problematic deal. (Jeez, what were the Leafs thinking with that contract??) EDIT: looking at Cole's great play and Staal's struggles, part of me wonders whether there might be a bit of the old Denis Savard/Steve Larmer syndrom here - where the 'sidekick' (Cole/larmer) turns out to be the guy who was actually driving the bus. However, I think the real issue is either that Staal was traumatized from concussing his own brother and has allowed that to affect his play - or else that he is just demoralized by his crap team. I think the canes just suck, because they went out and signed too many ex-leafs - including the coach Kind of the same issue Calgary has after making that idiotic Phaneuf deal. With the Habs' depth at D, I'd seriously consider a package involving Subban for Eric Staal. Provided, of course, the cap space situation can be worked out and what else would have to be included. But the element of risk associated with Subban developing into a top flight defenseman versus getting a proven stanley cup winning #1 center who big and skilled. He's all-world. Can we confidently say Subban is all-world? (Of course, I said seriously consider. This also depends on how Markov performs when he comes back, because we need one of Subban or Markov at the very least.) No way I'd make that deal! I wouldn't ever trade Subban either, to much talent and just a great guy by all accounts. I'd trade him for Malkin. No way i'd do it for Stall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I would part with Subban. He's likely my fav player in the league next to Seabrook but despite a fondness of him given the right deal I would part with him. say fro instance Nashville is shopping Weber because they cannot afford him. I'd gladly give up Subban to make that deal. I love Weber, but he is going to want $8M, which may mean $9M from Montreal. Assuming Subban does put up around 15 goals, we can probably lock him for under $4.5M for the next 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I think the canes just suck, because they went out and signed too many ex-leafs - including the coach Kind of the same issue Calgary has after making that idiotic Phaneuf deal. No way I'd make that deal! I'd trade him for Malkin. No way i'd do it for Stall. Personally I would take Staal over Malkin. The guy is a point per game player playing with absolute crap around him and has missed almost no games due to injury. Regardless of what he does in the regular season he is even better in the playoffs. If we could trade Subban to land a guy like Staal then IMHO Gauthier would be an idiot not to. I know right now we are thin on D but when Campoli and Markov return we are going to have a pretty deep D-core. And we do have Tinordi, Beaulieu, even guys like Ellis on the horizon. Sure they are question marks because we don;t know if they can be as good as PK but with the depth at D we have combined with the fact we have been searching for a big center for so many years, it is a no brainer for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Subban is the best defensive prospect this team has had since Chris Chelios. I like Tinordi, Beaulieu, Ellis, etc... but I really don't think they are at that same level. For Weber I'd probably move him because we are talking Norris contender already vs potential Norris contender. For Staal I don't, because I really don't see Staal among the top 5 guys in the league at his position. He's good, but I'm not convinced he's among that very top tier, and Subban has the potential to be in that top tier for D IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Subban is the best defensive prospect this team has had since Chris Chelios. I like Tinordi, Beaulieu, Ellis, etc... but I really don't think they are at that same level. For Weber I'd probably move him because we are talking Norris contender already vs potential Norris contender. For Staal I don't, because I really don't see Staal among the top 5 guys in the league at his position. He's good, but I'm not convinced he's among that very top tier, and Subban has the potential to be in that top tier for D IMO. I love PK. Have 2 jerseys, a T, I mean I just adore everything about him but no player on this team, except for maybe Price is an untouchable for me. I think the problem with Staal is that he plays in a market where nobody cares about hockey so we never hear or see him. I love the guy though. Whether it's his point production on a horrible team, his leadership in the playoffs, the physicality of his game, I just adore the guy. Would love to see him in a Habs uniform. Out of curiosity which centers would you have ahead of him? There are players like Sedin, Backstrom who produce more points but I would personally take Staal perhaps over every center in this league except for maybe: Crosby, Getzlaf, Gomez,Toews, and Datsyuk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I think Staal is very overrated as I said earlier in the thread, due to his one big season. In no particular order I'd definetely take Crosby Datsyuk Malkin Sedin Stamkos Getzlaf Thornton B. Richards Toews over him. I'd have in an around the same area as guys like Mikko Koivu, Anze Kopitar, Zetterberg, etc... they are pretty interchangeable. And I think he's only slightly ahead of a guy like Tomas Plekanec or Ryan Kesler. I think he's great in a 1a/1b situation like what he had with Rod Brindamour, and Doug Weight on that cup winning team... but I think he also needs the complimentary guy with him. I think he'd make a great 1a/1b with Plekanec... but I don't know that I give up Subban for that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Forgot about Stamkos. Difference of opinions though I guess. Just drawn to different players. I look at the names on the list and look at the linemates they have. Staal played with Cole who is basically just a 25 goal scorer and then a mishmash of 3rd liners. Despite this the guy is still a point per game player. Crosby has Malkin on the PP, Sedin has Sedin, Stamkos has St,.Louis, Getzalf has Perry. Thornton has Marleau, Toews has Kane. Staal has Cole. Hardly the same elements here. I just adore the guy like I said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Jeff Carter may have asked for a trade out of Columbus. On-ice he's the perfect type of centre we need.... great two way game, Size, goal scoring, etc.... However his off-ice issues are well known, and I'm not sure if Montreal is the right place for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Jeff Carter may have asked for a trade out of Columbus. On-ice he's the perfect type of centre we need.... great two way game, Size, goal scoring, etc.... However his off-ice issues are well known, and I'm not sure if Montreal is the right place for him. I like Carter but he has been the most effect when playing on the wing. He makes a good cap number with long term but he's proved he can produce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l.moustakas Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 If Montreal were to acquire any big name player (Carter, Nash, Ignla, etc) then we all know that cap-space would be needed. And, short of burying Gomez in the minors (which, at this point, I'm all for), that cap space will be hard to come by. Look at me bringing up the salary cap. You would think I was Brian or something. Sheesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illWill Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Jeff Carter may have asked for a trade out of Columbus. On-ice he's the perfect type of centre we need.... great two way game, Size, goal scoring, etc.... However his off-ice issues are well known, and I'm not sure if Montreal is the right place for him. Carter is an excellent potential trade target for this team. He's big, he can score, he has a decent cap hit and he is a RH shot (something that is very much needed at forward but is NEVER a topic of discussion). We definitely have some young assets that can be parted with if Columbus decides to blow it up and rebuild. Although I'm unsure of their willingness to do so after acquiring him and the Wiz in the offseason, it doesn't really send a good message to their fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 If Montreal were to acquire any big name player (Carter, Nash, Ignla, etc) then we all know that cap-space would be needed. And, short of burying Gomez in the minors (which, at this point, I'm all for), that cap space will be hard to come by. Look at me bringing up the salary cap. You would think I was Brian or something. Sheesh. If the right guy is available I think they'd bury Gomez to get him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willey101 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 If the right guy is available I think they'd bury Gomez to get him. If anyone was available I'd bury Gomez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbp Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 If anyone was available I'd bury Gomez. He is becoming less and less valuable each game :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Carter is overrated based on one 84-point season; he's actually more like a 60-70 point guy. That being said, he's also a reliable 30-goal man and a skilled C with size. Just what the doctor ordered, and he and Pleks would make a perfect 1-2 punch. Whether we could put together the right package, I don't know. Ay Carambus would probably want MaxPac. Maybe they'd settle for Eller plus Weber plus picks, something like that. That's the problem with making The Big Trade for a major centreman. You're gonna pay. Conversely, Columbus still needs a C to set up Nash. Maybe they'd be willing to take a chance on Gomez if we were to relieve them of one of their horrendous contracts in return. As I said about the Komisarek rumour, I'd be happy to see the Habs taking on two bad contracts in place of Gomer's one. So then you're looking at a complex, multi-player deal. This in itself shouldn't prevent the Habs from acting. As for Gomez, I get so tired of the idea that he is some immoveable albatross. He is only as immoveable as the Habs want him to be. The NHL has shown over and over that a determined team can move a bad contract, provided the GM is relentless and creative. If you acquire Carter, send him down on a temporary basis (making clear to Molson that this is not a long-term solution) and then deal with it. Hell, couldn't he be picked up off re-entry waivers by some team for half his salary? Then, if my understanding of the cap is correct, we'd be on the hook for about $3.5 mil cap hit for the rest of the Baked Alaskan's contract, unless he is sent down to the AHL by his new team. Not ideal, but 3.5 million wasted is a lot better than 7 million in wasted cap space. Not perfect but cripes, my point is there are possibilities. At some point Gauthier is going to have to get aggressive on the Gomez file if he wants this team to truly contend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Not ideal, but 3.5 million wasted is a lot better than 7 million in wasted cap space. Not perfect but cripes, my point is there are possibilities. At some point Gauthier is going to have to get aggressive on the Gomez file if he wants this team to truly contend. Only if what we have in return offers more than does Gomez. That's the issue. If we get a 3.5M player who doesn't even do as well as Gomez, then we've shot ourselves in the foot. Twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Only if what we have in return offers more than does Gomez. That's the issue. If we get a 3.5M player who doesn't even do as well as Gomez, then we've shot ourselves in the foot. Twice. I don't get your logic. You can two guys at 3.5 for what you are paying Gomez and only one would to play as well. The other guy would be money in the bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I don't get your logic. You can two guys at 3.5 for what you are paying Gomez and only one would to play as well. The other guy would be money in the bank. The first 3.5 was wasted money on a re-entry waivers claim in his scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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