Scouts fired

[BlueKross]

In the montreal section of HF Boards, they have reported the firing of six scouts including our Russian scout. I really don't know if they have been fired for poor results, or maybe an effort to cut cost or something all together different. My concern would be the timing. Why wouldn't you fire them after the draft if that was your intention? Now some other team may prosper from the knowledge that you paid for and dip into players that were in your crosshairs.

[lazy26]

In the montreal section of HF Boards, they have reported the firing of six scouts including our Russian scout. I really don't know if they have been fired for poor results, or maybe an effort to cut cost or something all together different. My concern would be the timing. Why wouldn't you fire them after the draft if that was your intention? Now some other team may prosper from the knowledge that you paid for and dip into players that were in your crosshairs.

If true, that is bizarre timing. I suspect that there is much about this situation that we don't know about.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

In the montreal section of HF Boards, they have reported the firing of six scouts including our Russian scout. I really don't know if they have been fired for poor results, or maybe an effort to cut cost or something all together different. My concern would be the timing. Why wouldn't you fire them after the draft if that was your intention? Now some other team may prosper from the knowledge that you paid for and dip into players that were in your crosshairs.

I find it hard to believe that they will be scooped up so rapidly, unless they are considered elite at their job. So I wouldn't put anxiety too much into that.

What *is* weird about the timing is that there is no way for their replacements to get fully up to speed in time for the draft. Presumably the Habs already have their basic list assembled - ?

My guess is that Gauthier has been unhappy with the scouting end of the operation and is now free to apply the axe.

[dlbalr]

Now confirmed by RDS. I'll be curious to see if there's some outsiders hired to replace them, otherwise that's huge blow to the scouting staff simply in being able to see less players (due to losing 6 scouts).

[lazy26]

Now confirmed by RDS. I'll be curious to see if there's some outsiders hired to replace them, otherwise that's huge blow to the scouting staff simply in being able to see less players (due to losing 6 scouts).

Hmm. Maybe I should send in my resume?

[BTH]

I'm guessing Timmins wasn't one of them?

[JoeLassister]

Now confirmed by RDS. I'll be curious to see if there's some outsiders hired to replace them, otherwise that's huge blow to the scouting staff simply in being able to see less players (due to losing 6 scouts).

I heard they were trying the JLP way... Trading all picks for prospects and youngers.

[newf]

about time.. their scouts sucked!!!! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Toronthab]

I don't know nuthin about our scouts.

[brobin]

odd timing, but our scouting did suck.. so maybe its a good idea to clean house.

[bar]

I thought I read that it wasn't that they were fired, it's that they didn't have their contracts renewed, which is a whole different kettle of fish if you get my maritime slang.

Edited June 1, 2010 by bar

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I thought I read that it wasn't that they were hired, it's that they didn't have their contracts renewed, which is a whole different kettle of fish if you get my maritime slang.

That'd make a huge difference for sure.

[bar]

Yeah, here's an article from CBC.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/story/2010...ens-scouts.html

I don't know it sort of proves my point, sort of doesn't haha.

[kaos]

They fired 4 European scouts, 1 quebec league scout and 1 US scout. Two other US scouts kept there jobs. Does this mean we see another heavy dose of American highschool and college level players drafted this year, ala FIsher, McDonaugh, Paccioretty, Komisarek, Higgins, Kristo, ect.,ect....

Another interesting point is that when teams are looking to cut costs and save money, one of the first things to get cut are the scouting deptarments. And usually 10 years down there road they realize how bad they crippled their organization. Read into the Toronto Blue Jays over the past decade.... they have just recently invested heavily into their scouting departments as they realize that philosophy does not work.

[huzer]

According to Habsinsideout, there's speculation it was simply a cost cutting measure and could represent a shift going to "video scouting".

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

The more I think about this the more ominous it appears. 'Video scouting' - sounds like a pathetic cut-rate version of a proper scout. Add to that the very disconcerting fact that Gauthier remains the Habs' head of pro scouting - implying that this is a part-time function that he can balance with his other duties as GM - and you have a picture emerging of an organization that does not see scouting as a priority.

Unless we see a bunch of new scouts hired, this has to be read as bad, bad, bad news.

[KEEP26]

lets hope that we are just going to pick more canadian born players..They fired 4 European scouts,1 US scout so i just hope that we just scouts more guys that are in our back yard....

Edited June 2, 2010 by KEEP26

[fromage]

The more I think about this the more ominous it appears. 'Video scouting' - sounds like a pathetic cut-rate version of a proper scout. Add to that the very disconcerting fact that Gauthier remains the Habs' head of pro scouting - implying that this is a part-time function that he can balance with his other duties as GM - and you have a picture emerging of an organization that does not see scouting as a priority.

Unless we see a bunch of new scouts hired, this has to be read as bad, bad, bad news.

man arent u just a beacon of criticism.

with too many scouts, you will have many different opinions on players. this is where video scouting comes in, so that the man that makes all the decisions(PG) can see for himself the facts(video replay of the player in question).

I do not see this as bad news at all. A proper scout costs a lot of money(salary, airfare, hotel, etc) and doesn't guarantee shit. At least with video scouting, PG will see what the scout will see, so there is no need for the scout anymore.

also don't forget that PG is director of PRO scouting, not amateur scouting. Timmins is still director of amateur scouting.

Edited June 2, 2010 by fromage

[Sir_Boagalott]

Son of a:

One person who received a vote of confidence from Gauthier was Trevor Timmins, the club's director of player recruitment and development.

"Trevor is here and Trevor is here to stay," Gauthier said.

"When you do a full analysis of our scouting department, they're doing a good job and we are clearly above the league average at the draft since Trevor has been on board."

Clearly above league avg? Thats a joke right? The Habs will remain clearly above the league avg in and around the 7-10 spot in the standings too. PB is way to quick to accept mediocrity. Sorry but I want 1 of the best, and at this point you should all be realizing what I've been saying for over a year now that Tinnins isnt 1 of the best. Timmins is an idiot.

"The way the draft works, after a handful of players, the first round really becomes a long second round," Gauthier said.

"If your first-rounder doesn't do so well, but your second or fourth-rounder becomes a very good player, it comes to the same thing," he added.

Balls, is PB an idiot too? Really makes me wonder. Theres absolutely no excuse for blowing so many high picks. It doesnt matter if some pics in later rounds turn out to be above avg players. All you are doing is keeping up with the Jones who arent stupid enough to waste their top pics. Advantage 0. PB is right it does amount to the saame thing, in something where you want to be further ahead of the game, not keep pace with your peers. The Habs need to be successful at both. Sure not in every draft, but c'mon. Spending over 50% of your pics on guys who are off to college for 4 years is brain dead. Did you see the Habs roster this year? Not 1 bloody NCAA alumni on it . Not 1!! Note: I'm talking NCAA pics the Habs actually drafted, Cammy doesnt make NCAA pics good, ask LA who had him for 2 seasons. I'll be surprised to see 1 next year too, and i bet that jack-hole wastes another 3-4 pics on em. To what end? Its really been such a huge success so far so why stop now? :puke:

Dont even bother saying Patches or OB are NCAA, theyre not. Sure they played in NCAA, but when a roster spot opened up they left NCAA ASAP. They were only in the NCAA so they didnt have to play in the ECHL. All those other guys are actually off to college and wouldnt come until they are finished 4 year programs = complete waste of time.

Timmins might have got lucky in some late rounds, unfortunately most of those rounds no longer exist so you probably shouldnt be holding your breath.

The vid scouting may seem odd, but Buff switched to that last year or the year before. Buff is in the higher echelon of drafting.

Also on a different video note Adam Deadmarsh helped get the Avs into the playoffs.

[dlbalr]

In terms of draft picks materializing into NHL'ers (not necessarily top half ones), the Habs haven't been half bad in this regard lately, with late picks such as Halak, D'Agostini, S. Kostitsyn, and Stewart making it from the 6th round or beyond in recent years. I agree that the first couple of rounds haven't been great, but at least they're making something of the lower prospects. In a perfect world, I'd love to see Timmins responsible for Rounds 3-7 and someone else Rounds 1-2, don't see that happening though.

Also, though Pacioretty left the NCAA after 1 year, O'Byrne played 2 full seasons after being drafted. If you stay 2 years in NCAA, I think you can be classified as an NCAA player as lots of players bolt when they turn 20.

I've said this before, I actually like going the college route in the later rounds - you get more time before you have to sign the player and you get a better feel for their skills by the time you have to decide. If it doesn't pan out, it's not like too much was wasted, a 5th or 6th round pick isn't the end of the world. When the early ones (such as Fischer) don't pan out though, it stings. But I'd rather have 4 years to evaluate a late pick than 2 (if you drafted out of the CHL).

[bar]

I see teams like Philly drafting these bigger players, and wonder if skill is over rated at a younger age. I know it sounds silly to say it, but could you see a change in philosphy in drafting taller, bigger players, regardless of skill level?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I see teams like Philly drafting these bigger players, and wonder if skill is over rated at a younger age. I know it sounds silly to say it, but could you see a change in philosphy in drafting taller, bigger players, regardless of skill level?

Oh, Lord...we went this route in the early 1990s. We drafted players for Pat Burns: big, tough, defensively-responsible types like Lindsay Vallis. Unfortunately they had no skills and couldn't skate. It was a disaster. On this philosophy we'd draft nothing but Kyle Chipchuras.

Beyond this, the NHL has never been better-suited to smaller players. 4 of the top 5 NHL playoff point-scorers this year are under 6 feet tall and the only one of the top 5 goal-scorers are what you'd call 'big' (Byfuglien; the rest are under 6 feet, except Sharp, who is only 6'1 and under 200 lbs - if he was a habs no one would call him 'big'.). The leading playoff goal-scorer is a little fellow named Mike Cammalleri - perhaps you've heard of him?

There is ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS for the argument that these playoffs demonstrate that you have to have a team of hulking monsters. Certainly not hulking monsters with no skills. If anything, this playoff shows exactly the opposite.

The only problem our team has size-wise is that we are disproportionately small in the top 6. ONE power forward would fix that perception. I can see no rational argument that carries us from a Stanley Cup semi-final appearance to a total demolition of our entire team identity as emphasizing speed and skill, especially in a playoff that proves size is in no way the definitive critereon for success.

The size thing is a red herring. Let's move on.

[BlueKross]

.The size thing is a red herring.

CC- I really think you meant a disappearance in the semi finals. The media created the illusion that after the new CBA that all the tiny skilled players would find a home in the NHL and the lunch pail guys would be gone. I though Montreal was out played in all three series, goaltending kept them in, and the size differential caught up to them in the third round. I take exception to anyone who says size doesn't matter, including the Cambell article in THN. Obviously you would like both size and skill together. The red herring part is that away to many people get sucked into the aroma the media puts out. I boldly predict that once the dust settles from the fallout of the new CBA that teams will again get bigger and faster.

[bar]

My thoughts are...the playoffs were supposed to be called the way regular was called, it's not. Seeing what Pronger, and the bigger forwards get away with in the finals is sickening. Pronger deserves a penalty just about every shift.

The smaller players on Montreal were getting worn down in the Philly series, I don't think one power forward would have turned the tide.

I'm not saying every player has to be a hulking 6 foot 6er, but seeing what Philly has, and what Chicago has to do to be successful with Byfuglin (I butchered his name), makes me wish the habs would draft more CHL players...not North American, just players from the CHL.

Maybe I overstated what I meant when I said regardless of talent, but maybe taking a less talented forward who was bigger.

[Sir_Boagalott]

I completely agree with bar and I'd even take it a step further. Personally I would love to see the Habs draft BFA. i.e. best farmboy availabale. I'd target the biggest fastest most skilled farmboys that are from silly small places in northern Canada.

Why? cuz its the answer to almost all of the Habs current problems.

Habs curent probs: 2 of their top players are 2 of the smallest in the NHL. Some of the larger Habs arent tough enough for their size (Laps, Pouliot, etc), a lot of the time quite a few Habs seem to have a laziness issue, some are primadonna like.

farmboy pros: tend to be larger (more muscular) than city boys of similar size, and in way better shape, a lot tougher, theyre up at the crack of dawn every day doing real hard labour, and they are generally level headed humble people. I doubt you'll find any metro sexual primadonna farmboys at the draft. Introduce several large hard working farmboys to the Habs and other teams will surely have a diffreent perspective of the Habs.

People who say size doesnt matter are silly. What was said regarding small players and the new CBA is completely true. Small players can be more successfull now than before. However, what is true is that entire teams of small guys is still a big problem come playoff time, and the deeper into the playoffs the bigger a problem it becomes. Dont be fooled.

Also the people who think size isnt an issue dont forget that in battles for pucks etc, the larger guy is supposed to win which ultimately comes down to larger guys can generally get away with more shit. i.e. picture Cammy in the corner going for a loose puck with Pronger near. Cammy gets the puck 1st, but Pronger sends Cammy flying on his ass, no penalty cuz Pronger is just bigger, he's supposed to win that battle. When a larger player man handles 1 f the smaller Habs its generally not a penalty because its expected that the larger guy will win.

Edited June 7, 2010 by Sir_Boagalott