NHL lockout is OVER!

[JMMR]

Kovalev, Kostitsyn, and Marek svatos all invited to camp.

Its a new big 3 of enigmatic, lazy forwards.

When does Kovalev have the press conference about taking his talents to South Beach?

He already did.

On TVA sports.

Picket lines around MB's car demanding him to give all the money he was going to offer PK to Kovalev because he is the savour.

[lazy26]

Kovalev is going to panthers camp

Makes sense. Old people move to Florida all the time.

[JoeLassister]

We can say what we want against the NHL and Bettman, but his "I am sorry" speech was pretty nice.

[dlbalr]

More CBA tidbits (I really should've started a thread of this a couple days ago, oh well...):

- Teams have rights to European-based draftees for 4 years, up from 2. If this applies to all players drafted before the CBA, this would apply to players like Collberg, Nygren, Nystrom, and Pribyl.

- A UFA interview period will be established from the date following the end of the draft to June 30th. This means that there will a ton of UFA's signing on July 1st.

- Teams will not be able to buyout players making less than $2.75M that weren't property of that club prior to the trade deadline. Call this the Samsonov rule if you will, that's the only instance I can think of where a team traded for a player solely to buy him out (when the Habs dealt Samsonov for Jassen Cullimore and Tony Salmelainen, both of whom were immediately bought out).

- The 7.5% bonus cushion no longer counts towards calculation of the cap floor - so the Islanders will actually have to spend some more money now.

- Teams that take a player to arbitration are still susceptible to an offer sheet for that player. So if Subban takes a short-term contract and is an RFA at the end, the Habs can't block an offer sheet by taking him to arbitration.

- Tagging room increases by 10% as of March 1st. This one could really come into play for the Habs as the Subban contract will take them past next year's cap of $64.3 million. They have some expiring contracts to offset this but if they want to add some help at the trade deadline, they may need that 10% allowance.

- Players that sign an extension with a NTC/NMC have the trade/movement restriction kick in immediately. Previously, players had to wait until the expiration of the current deal to get the restriction.

[Commandant]

We can say what we want against the NHL and Bettman, but his "I am sorry" speech was pretty nice.

The speech was nearly word for word what he said in 2005. Had a lot of practice with it.

[Trizzak]

We can say what we want against the NHL and Bettman, but his "I am sorry" speech was pretty nice.

You're like the partner of an abuser. "Oh it's different this time, he said he was sorry and it won't happen again. He loves me, I know it."

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

You're like the partner of an abuser. "Oh it's different this time, he said he was sorry and it won't happen again. He loves me, I know it."

The whole thing is a joke. The lockout was Bettman's premeditated strategy from the start. The whole plan was to drag it out to the point where players were missing paychecks, would start to panic, and then break. You don't carefully plan to do something, follow through on the plan over a period of many months, and then apologize, as if it was some sort of error or oversight. If he actually were sorry the lockout would not have happened in the first place.

If I accidentally hit you with my car, you bet I will apologize, sincerely and fervently, because that's an awful act I never meant to commit. If I diligently and carefully map out my plan of attack for weeks in advance and then deliberately run you over, how on earth can I then jump out and say I'm sorry? It's hypocrisy of the first order.

The only thing Bettman and the owners are sorry about is that they failed to break the union. That's it.

[JoeLassister]

You're like the partner of an abuser. "Oh it's different this time, he said he was sorry and it won't happen again. He loves me, I know it."

Well, about time that I spit this out (but in English, 2nd language... )

I am first a fan of the game of hockey.

I love hockey, so do I love high level hockey (NHL being the highest level, IMO)

I build my social schedule around Habs games.

But I don't believe that the NHL, a private business, or the Montreal Canadien, a private business, owe me anything.

They are in business and if they close for a certain period of time, be it.

I sure don't like it, but I'm not mad at them.

I will be back 100% on the 19th. Won't even booo them or anything.

Same if my favorite restaurant close for 6 months, same if my favorite airline goes on strike for a few months, same for any private business around me.

I don't really understand how people can get so mad at the NHLPA or the NHL for not being active for half a year.

I don't let hockey drive me crazy.

[brobin]

I agree with Joe.. We have no entitlement to NHL.. If you don't like them, take your money elsewhere, but they don't owe us anything. Fehr held out and minimized what the players were bound to lose, which was his job. Bettman had to squeeze as much as he could out of the players and it was obvious that a stoppage would occur unless the NHL agreed to what would amount to an extension of the old deal. That deal worked out great for the players despite early opinions that they lost.

In any case, I appreciate that the league pushed for the longest term possible to avoid another lockout for as long as possible. Hopefully, this deal gets things in balance enough that major adjustment either way isn't required. If it is, there will be another lockout.

[Commandant]

I agree with Joe.. We have no entitlement to NHL.. If you don't like them, take your money elsewhere, but they don't owe us anything. Fehr held out and minimized what the players were bound to lose, which was his job. Bettman had to squeeze as much as he could out of the players and it was obvious that a stoppage would occur unless the NHL agreed to what would amount to an extension of the old deal. That deal worked out great for the players despite early opinions that they lost. In any case, I appreciate that the league pushed for the longest term possible to avoid another lockout for as long as possible. Hopefully, this deal gets things in balance enough that major adjustment either way isn't required. If it is, there will be another lockout.

I agree we have no entitlement to the NHL.

I don't agree that we should look at Bettman's apology and see it as sincere.

[habs rule]

Well, about time that I spit this out (but in English, 2nd language... )

I am first a fan of the game of hockey.

I love hockey, so do I love high level hockey (NHL being the highest level, IMO)

I build my social schedule around Habs games.

But I don't believe that the NHL, a private business, or the Montreal Canadien, a private business, owe me anything.

They are in business and if they close for a certain period of time, be it.

I sure don't like it, but I'm not mad at them.

I will be back 100% on the 19th. Won't even booo them or anything.

Same if my favorite restaurant close for 6 months, same if my favorite airline goes on strike for a few months, same for any private business around me.

I don't really understand how people can get so mad at the NHLPA or the NHL for not being active for half a year.

I don't let hockey drive me crazy.

I agree totally. Real fans come back and are happy we have hockey again. It is not our job to tell these guys how to run their buisness or union. I think what happened was stupid but I am not going to quit being a fan, for crying out loud. I mean that is dummm

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I think it's perfectly reasonable to be pissed off about a ridiculously and unnecessarily extended labour stoppage in the NHL. The bottom line is, many of us have made NHL hockey a lifelong passion and the NHL is a direct beneficiary of this; but underlying that is a certain relationship of trust - i.e., that they will be tolerably competent caretakers of the sport (and nobody begrudges them the right to make lots of money in the process). The NHL's message is: get on board our product, be passionate about it from year to year, follow your team, etc., etc.. And then suddenly they make it impossible to do these things. Anger is an appropriate response, because it's a form of betrayal.

The owners have always been human turds, we all know that. The difference is that this time their truculence directly hurt the fans where traditionally it hurts only the players.

All of that said, 'fans' who now want to boycott the league are cutting off their noses to spite their faces. You're angry that you've been deprived of the NHL, so now you want to teach them a lesson by continuing to deprive yourself? That's messed up, man.

So I'm 100% back on board for the Habs, but it's going to take a while for the bad taste to get out of my mouth about this whole lockout business. And I think that's reasonable.

[dlbalr]

For anyone wondering, the NHLPA's vote is scheduled to begin at 8 PM EST tonight Thursday and last 36 hours (to 8 AM EST Saturday). If, as expected, they vote yes, then we'll finally start to get some official information with regards to training camps, schedules, when trades can be announced, etc.

[huzer]

For anyone wondering, the NHLPA's vote is scheduled to begin at 8 PM EST tonight and last 36 hours (to 8 AM EST Saturday). If, as expected, they vote yes, then we'll finally start to get some official information with regards to training camps, schedules, when trades can be announced, etc.

I think you meant last night. 36 hours from 8PM tonight would be 8 AM Sun.

[dlbalr]

I think you meant last night. 36 hours from 8PM tonight would be 8 AM Sun.

I don't know why but all week I've been either a day ahead or behind of what day it actually is. I'll correct that, thanks Huz.

[hab29RETIRED]

I agree totally. Real fans come back and are happy we have hockey again. It is not our job to tell these guys how to run their buisness or union. I think what happened was stupid but I am not going to quit being a fan, for crying out loud. I mean that is dummm

I have no problem with the union.

I do have a problem with the league making stupid decisions (i.e. still in Phoenix, anything that Charles Wang does) and then wanting to reduce the players share to make up for their own stupidity. I also think Bettman gets WAY too much credit for growing the game in the USA. The Gretzky trade triggered that.

I also don't see how I'm not a "Real Fan", if I don't want any of my hard dollars going to the NHL. I grew up a habs fan and my heroes were Lafleur, Dryden, Robinson, Sam Pollack and Scotty Bowman, not a Jeremy Jacobs, Gary Bettman or even the Molsons.

[hab29RETIRED]

I think it's perfectly reasonable to be pissed off about a ridiculously and unnecessarily extended labour stoppage in the NHL. The bottom line is, many of us have made NHL hockey a lifelong passion and the NHL is a direct beneficiary of this; but underlying that is a certain relationship of trust - i.e., that they will be tolerably competent caretakers of the sport (and nobody begrudges them the right to make lots of money in the process). The NHL's message is: get on board our product, be passionate about it from year to year, follow your team, etc., etc.. And then suddenly they make it impossible to do these things. Anger is an appropriate response, because it's a form of betrayal.

The owners have always been human turds, we all know that. The difference is that this time their truculence directly hurt the fans where traditionally it hurts only the players.

All of that said, 'fans' who now want to boycott the league are cutting off their noses to spite their faces. You're angry that you've been deprived of the NHL, so now you want to teach them a lesson by continuing to deprive yourself? That's messed up, man.

So I'm 100% back on board for the Habs, but it's going to take a while for the bad taste to get out of my mouth about this whole lockout business. And I think that's reasonable.

Agreed. Bettman's first lockout combined with the subsequent idiocy of the unholy trinity (Corey/Houle/tremblay) almost turned me off of hockey in the mid-90's. I felt like a masochist watching the habs during the post-Roy era.

[brobin]

There was no way to avoid this lockout, based on gaming theory. The 57 percent was too high, but was given to get the cap. You knew that had to come down and there was no way the players would agree to it without a lockout or strike. Fehr took the strategy of dragging it out as long as possible and he was fairly successful at this. If anyone caved to save the season, it was Bettman.

People who rant about Phoenix or southern teams miss the point. The issue was teams like Philly are only making 10 to 20 million in a playoff year. Many teams in solid hockey markets have had financial problems if they missed the playoffs. It had to change and the players picked a prick like Fehr for the fight they knew was coming.

It seems to me that Bettman thought this would be done by December and is sorry he underestimated the playes resolve. Frankly, any apology from him or the players is just marketing BS. I don't expect an apology, I expect a decent product on the ice and if I get it, I will watch.

Some people here seem to think that moving three or four teams north would have solved everything. It wouldn't. Calgary and Edmonton struggle. We lost Quebec and Winnipeg. While moving a few teams help, it would not be enough. Worse, it would only move the cap bottom up and kill more teams. With a lower cap, it will be easier to move one or two more teams.

Think about this... If Philly wants to buyout Bry, it will cost them more then three yeas of their profit. Ouch. When players suck, the owners eat the losses, there is no hit to the players. At some point, I would like to see a way of sharing the pain with the player... But that would be another lockout...

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Agreed. Bettman's first lockout combined with the subsequent idiocy of the unholy trinity (Corey/Houle/tremblay) almost turned me off of hockey in the mid-90's. I felt like a masochist watching the habs during the post-Roy era.

Yeah, that was tough to take. I endured it all right because I figured that, from a macro-perspective, we were long overdue for an extended period of suckage - after all, every other fanbase on earth has had to suffer grinding periods of mediocrity from their team. Apart from the Roy trade, what really crushed me was the Odelein deal, and the trading of Turgeon followed by Koivu's career-compromising injury. The other very demoralizing aspect was the low dollar and instability at the ownership levels (there were even vague hints of a move to Portland!).

But I never imagined the futility would drag on as long as it has. Like a lot of people, I assumed that when Gainey took over we were on our way up. And for all of his mistakes, Gainey did make us respectable again and even gave us a fabulous season (2008) and playoff run (2010). Still, only once or twice in the entire span from 1995 to today could we seriously be considered contenders. That stinks.

As for ceasing to be a fan of hockey, the closest I ever came was when Chara deliberately tried to kill or handicap Max Pacioretty and was rewarded for it by the league. I have no desire to see young men die on the ice due to grotesque negligence. This is still an issue for me, but I'm riding it out and crossing my fingers on slow progress on questions of player safety.

[Commandant]

There was no way to avoid this lockout, based on gaming theory. The 57 percent was too high, but was given to get the cap. You knew that had to come down and there was no way the players would agree to it without a lockout or strike. Fehr took the strategy of dragging it out as long as possible and he was fairly successful at this. If anyone caved to save the season, it was Bettman. People who rant about Phoenix or southern teams miss the point. The issue was teams like Philly are only making 10 to 20 million in a playoff year. Many teams in solid hockey markets have had financial problems if they missed the playoffs. It had to change and the players picked a prick like Fehr for the fight they knew was coming. It seems to me that Bettman thought this would be done by December and is sorry he underestimated the playes resolve. Frankly, any apology from him or the players is just marketing BS. I don't expect an apology, I expect a decent product on the ice and if I get it, I will watch. Some people here seem to think that moving three or four teams north would have solved everything. It wouldn't. Calgary and Edmonton struggle. We lost Quebec and Winnipeg. While moving a few teams help, it would not be enough. Worse, it would only move the cap bottom up and kill more teams. With a lower cap, it will be easier to move one or two more teams. Think about this... If Philly wants to buyout Bry, it will cost them more then three yeas of their profit. Ouch. When players suck, the owners eat the losses, there is no hit to the players. At some point, I would like to see a way of sharing the pain with the player... But that would be another lockout...

The problem with this is that you are assuming the numbers NHL teams voluntarily release and are unaudited about their numbers are correct.

The reality is that when corporation who owns the Florida Panthers profits 10 million per year in non playoff years, and merely 1 million in 2005, (according to government produced Broward County audits).

This puts the NHL's claims and Forbes numbers under huge scrutiny to me, and they must be taken with a grain of salt.

As for Bryz... no one forced Philly to give him a 10 year deal.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

The problem with this is that you are assuming the numbers NHL teams voluntarily release and are unaudited about their numbers are correct.

The reality is that when corporation who owns the Florida Panthers profits 10 million per year in non playoff years, and merely 1 million in 2005, (according to government produced Broward County audits).

This puts the NHL's claims and Forbes numbers under huge scrutiny to me, and they must be taken with a grain of salt.

As for Bryz... no one forced Philly to give him a 10 year deal.

And of course, brobin just assumes away any possibility of reasonable revenue sharing. It all has to come on the players' backs.

[habs rule]

I have no problem with the union.

I do have a problem with the league making stupid decisions (i.e. still in Phoenix, anything that Charles Wang does) and then wanting to reduce the players share to make up for their own stupidity. I also think Bettman gets WAY too much credit for growing the game in the USA. The Gretzky trade triggered that.

I also don't see how I'm not a "Real Fan", if I don't want any of my hard dollars going to the NHL. I grew up a habs fan and my heroes were Lafleur, Dryden, Robinson, Sam Pollack and Scotty Bowman, not a Jeremy Jacobs, Gary Bettman or even the Molsons.

How many dollars you want to spend on hockey is entirely your buisness. It also has nothing to do with being a fan. What I am talking about and the point you missed is the people who say that's it I am not watching hockey anymore, I am going to go watch basket ball football or the friggin khl. We lost 1/2 a season to a lockout that had no winners, except the owners got their 50/50 sharing. I am not happy about it but I have been a fan of this game for 50 years and I will continue to be a fan. Thank zeus we have hockey back. I will watch and absorb every damn minute of it, and hope I never have to hear about a lockout again.

[brobin]

And of course, brobin just assumes away any possibility of reasonable revenue sharing. It all has to come on the players' backs.

Not at all. 30 vibrant teams ensures employment for the players in what is a very lucrative business for them. Show me the player dependant on his team making the playoffs to get his pay cheque.

People act like any profit for an owner means the players should get more. Florida makes a profit on the arena, not the team. Their profit actually represents a dreadful return on investment.

Buffalo, The Devils, even Pitts have been in trouble. LA was sold because the owner lost his shirt in a large market. The team is moving, not exactly great for those fans.

The players have seen their salaries grow ten fold under Bettman. They assume no risk once signed and guys with long term deals tend to stop earning it with no fiscal risk.

As for the comment about no one forcing Philly to pay so much, that is ignoring the significant leverage players hold in negotiations. Why do you think salaries keep going up, terms kept going up, etc. Still, Philly assumed all the risk. They entered into a good faith agreement with Bry and he is not delivering. What has he lost? Zip. They are on the hook one way or another. Gomez?

Seriously, players are doing very well. Many owners are not and people seem to think that's okay. You hate Wang? Well he is just the kind of owner you get when owning a team is for ego, not profit.

[brobin]

Another point... Take three billion in revenue. Split it evenly. To the players, that is 1.5 billion profit, minus taxes and agent fees. To the owners, that is revenue. They have to pay staff, arena fees, flights, food, sticks, etc.. Most owners get paid less then their top player, after investing hundreds of millions and taking all the risk.

Yes, Montreal, Toronto, and the Rangers rake it in, but you have to pony up even more to own them, so the Rate of return is still modest.

My hope is that the balance is now close enough that most teams do well enough to avoid structural changes in the cba. If so, then we shouldn't need a lockout. What worries me is that even Kipper (mr. Union), has said the Owners didn't get enough to help the bottom third of the league or keep them competitive. I hope he is wrong.

[Commandant]

Note that HRR is not GROSS REVENUE

Before they split things 50/50 the owners have already paid all arena staff, all concession and merch costs, all advertising costs, and several other things.

3.3 million of HRR is not a GROSS number, it is a net number. Which is why the definition of HRR became such an issue in these negotiatiosn.

So while the owners have some expenses out of their 1.5 billion, its not every expense as you claim.

Also remember there are 30 owners splitting that cash, and 700 players.