Should the Habs trade to move up in the draft?

[Meller93]

I've noticed a few articles recently about the Habs using the boatload of draft picks they have to move up in the draft. Possibly enough to get a top 10 pick.

Moving up seems interesting to me, looking at the possibility of drafting a guy like Valeri Nichuskin. And not to say its a good idea, but what about packing a guy like Markov with a couple second rounders to retain the other picks?

I think this should be an interesting draft, considering the 3 picks we have in (I think it's) the top 36. Either way, I trust Timmins and Bergevin with whatever moves they make.

[Commandant]

There is no way we have enough picks for a top 5 pick which is where Nichuskin is likely to go now that he's made the strong commitment to come to North America.

Teams don't trade top 5 picks for a 'quantity of picks'... they might trade down 1 or 2 spots, but not to 24 or 25.

[Meller93]

Well scrap Nichuskin, where do you think it would be possible to move up to? And what players could be available there

[Trizzak]

Well we definitely have enough draft picks to move up up to 5 spots, maybe?

I definitely don't see us picking with all 9 of our current draft picks.

[Commandant]

Realistic move is from 25 to 15 at most (and thats by moving 25 + 34 + 36).

I don't think its worth it.

Make the picks you have, draft is a crap shoot, some will bust, some will hit... quantity is the key, unless you get surefire guys... and teams aren't trading you the surefire guys like top 5 for quantity.

[habs rule]

so maybe dd or moen and a 2nd pick gets us there? top 5 ? maybe?hmmmm?

[TurdBurglar]

so maybe dd or moen and a 2nd pick gets us there? top 5 ? maybe?hmmmm?

DD maybe, Moen, not a chance. We just re-signed DD, while there is a possibility he could be traded, I highly doubt we will. If your looking for player that we would potentially trade at the draft, I would look at Gionta, Pleks only if a good player or a top 3 pick is coming our way. I really can't see much of the team being potential trade bait at the draft.

[devils_fury2]

I'd love to move up high enough in the draft so we could have a chance at Max Domi, Bo Horvat or Kerby Rychel....Domi because he is small but tough just like Tie Domi and he can score......Horvat because he's already around 6 feet and 200 pounds and is a very good all around player....and Rychel is quite tough just like Warren Rychel and he can score as well, also Rychel trains with and is good friends with Hab prospect Brady Vail also of the Spitfires

[hab29RETIRED]

No way would I move Markov. He may not be the Markov of 4 or 5 years ago, but he is still our smartest dman and I think Subban still has a lot to learn from him.

Subban, Markov, Tinordi (barring sophomore slump), Emelin (once he returns from injury), should be part of our core. With Diaz being in the bottom pairing and Bouillon the 7th D. We still need at least one more big physical defensive dman capable of top 4 minutes.

Having said that I would like to use Gorges, Moen, Bourque, and some of our picks to move up in the draft and get some if the pieces we need.

Unless we are going to move him to the wing, I'd add DD to that list.

I've noticed a few articles recently about the Habs using the boatload of draft picks they have to move up in the draft. Possibly enough to get a top 10 pick.

Moving up seems interesting to me, looking at the possibility of drafting a guy like Valeri Nichuskin. And not to say its a good idea, but what about packing a guy like Markov with a couple second rounders to retain the other picks?

I think this should be an interesting draft, considering the 3 picks we have in (I think it's) the top 36. Either way, I trust Timmins and Bergevin with whatever moves they make.

[dlbalr]

The only way I consider moving up is if there's a player that's top-10 on the Habs' list that falls into the teens. The depth of the draft is a strength, it would need to be a rather significant prospect falling to justify it for me. Montreal has a chance to really shore up some weaknesses in their future talent pool with their extra selections and in a year like this, the more bullets (picks), the better. In terms of trying to package a player to move up, it would take much higher end guys than the likes of Desharnais to make other teams consider it.

[TurdBurglar]

No way would I move Markov. He may not be the Markov of 4 or 5 years ago, but he is still our smartest dman and I think Subban still has a lot to learn from him.

Subban, Markov, Tinordi (barring sophomore slump), Emelin (once he returns from injury), should be part of our core. With Diaz being in the bottom pairing and Bouillon the 7th D. We still need at least one more big physical defensive dman capable of top 4 minutes.

Having said that I would like to use Gorges, Moen, Bourque, and some of our picks to move up in the draft and get some if the pieces we need.

Unless we are going to move him to the wing, I'd add DD to that list.

While I agree I wouldn't mid seeing Moen moved, I strongly disagree with moving Bourque and with you assessment of our core, Gorges.

Bourque is the type of player we are looking for. A forward with size that gets to the dirty areas, can hit and chip in offensively. I believe once we get a better core fo forwards and we can depend on him less, he will actually produce more. I don't think he's suited for a first line roles but would thrive in a lesser scoring role with the right linemates. If we can get Patches - Chucky - Gallagher going as good or better than Patches - DD - Cole were doing, with Bourque - Pleks - Scorer going as a second line, I believe Bourque would be a very valuable asset to this team.

If your assessment of our top-4 defensemen is Subban, Markov, Emelin and Tinordi, I think Gorges would thrive in a 3rd pairing role. He's an upgrade defensively and strength over Boullion. Lessen Gorge's minutes so he can worry more about quality minutes. I'm not sure where all this trade Gorges talk is coming from really, the last part of this season and playoffs is the first time in the last 3 years he hasn't been our best defenseman in our own zone.

While looking up and down our roster the biggest problem I see for us is at center, problem in a bittersweet way. We have 4 good centers in Pleks, DD, Eller and Chucky, but with only real need for 3 of them. All 4 are too good to be on the 4th line, but there are only 3 spots. I know we could keep Chucky at wing, but I really believe if he's going to be our #1 center of the future, we need to get him at center and quickly. He has the summer to work on faceoffs, even if he can get his % to the mid-high 40's would be fantastic for next season. He already shows he can be solid defensively in time. The odd man out to me is DD. He doesn't have size, which we need. He's not massively out-producing any of his other centers. I'm also not impressed on his response to his new contract, completely disappeared after signing it. We have 3 other centers that can do what he does and more. Not sure why he should get a spot over any of our other 3 centers at this point in time.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

No way would I move Markov. He may not be the Markov of 4 or 5 years ago, but he is still our smartest dman and I think Subban still has a lot to learn from him.

Subban, Markov, Tinordi (barring sophomore slump), Emelin (once he returns from injury), should be part of our core. With Diaz being in the bottom pairing and Bouillon the 7th D. We still need at least one more big physical defensive dman capable of top 4 minutes.

Having said that I would like to use Gorges, Moen, Bourque, and some of our picks to move up in the draft and get some if the pieces we need.

Unless we are going to move him to the wing, I'd add DD to that list.

All the people who want to trade Markov need to accept that their recommendation would consign us to being a 'bubble team' or worse until - perhaps - Beaulieu is ready or else Diaz takes a huge step up. I just don't grasp why people are anxious to jettison core pieces of a team that finished 4th overall. Yes, yes, move up in the draft, but at what price? This team is unexpectedly close to contending right now and - without sacrificing significant picks or young talent, because the future is still better than the present - should be looking to add elements, not take them away.

EDIT: I agree with Turd on Gorges. He may not be convincing as a top-4 guy (he never did project to be this), but he is surely a strong asset as one of the best #5 d-men in the game. Bring in a bruising bottom-pairing guy who can eat significant minutes, and our D looks pretty good once Emelin returns.

[TurdBurglar]

Just wanted to add, not everyday you come across a defenseman that blocks as many shots as Gorges does. That being said, if we were to trade him I would be calling Edmonton. They have an abundance of offensive talent and are in desperate need of a Gorges type player.

[JMMR]

All the people who want to trade Markov need to accept that their recommendation would consign us to being a 'bubble team' or worse until - perhaps - Beaulieu is ready or else Diaz takes a huge step up. I just don't grasp why people are anxious to jettison core pieces of a team that finished 4th overall. Yes, yes, move up in the draft, but at what price? This team is unexpectedly close to contending right now and - without sacrificing significant picks or young talent, because the future is still better than the present - should be looking to add elements, not take them away.

EDIT: I agree with Turd on Gorges. He may not be convincing as a top-4 guy (he never did project to be this), but he is surely a strong asset as one of the best #5 d-men in the game. Bring in a bruising bottom-pairing guy who can eat significant minutes, and our D looks pretty good once Emelin returns.

I love Markov, hes an incredibly valuable asset.

When healthy he is one of the best 15 offensive de men in the league and one of the best 20 over all.

That said his value will probably never be higher than this summer and he might not have many years left.

Basically I will be fine either way, if they move him MB must believe his shelf life is limited and his health remains to large a concern.

If they keep him and re up him for another year or two MB must believe the Habs are as close as you say they are either that or the value in return is too low.

[JMMR]

Just wanted to add, not everyday you come across a defenseman that blocks as many shots as Gorges does. That being said, if we were to trade him I would be calling Edmonton. They have an abundance of offensive talent and are in desperate need of a Gorges type player.

Josh blocked far fewer shots this year because the Canadiens play a different game now on average 1 less per game.

I like Josh a lot,although I would love to upgrade him for someone bigger to stabilize the back end.

[Meller93]

No way would I move Markov. He may not be the Markov of 4 or 5 years ago, but he is still our smartest dman and I think Subban still has a lot to learn from him.

[Meller93]

I think that's almost become markov's most important asset. He's been a top tier defenceman, he knows what it's like to play in that role in Montreal, perfect for showing Subban the ropes.

My only problem is that, Subban grows at an explosive rate, and I wonder if Markov will have anything to teach him in a year or two. By that time, my hunch is that markov's game will have slowed even more, an his value will be no where near what it is now. That's the only reason I wonder if trading him would be a good idea. I hate watching an assets value pine away, when a good return might have been possible before. This goes for Gionta as well.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

MB won a lot of cred with me by dumping Cole right at the point where he still had value, yet (apparently) was in a steep decline. So if he takes the same approach with Markov, I'll defer to his wisdom. That said, I don't think it should be taken as an iron rule that you move a guy the minute he hits the downward slope. First of all, while it's clear that The General will never again be the player he used to be, I wouldn't rule out his improving next season. After three years of not playing, 2013 had to have been some sort of shock to his system; with better usage, a more refined sense of his new limitations, and with his knee having a full season behind it, Markov may well put together at least a couple of seasons as a highly effective, cagy veteran and PP quarterback. Never rule out the staying power of super-elite athletes.

Heck, look at Koivu - a significantly inferior talent to Markov. When we dumped him I was pretty sure he was on his last legs. Yet he went on to add another four years as an absolutely key cog to Anaheim.

Beyond that, you needn't move every veteran. I see Markov as a perfect transitional defender until Beaulieu (or Diaz) are ready, and if we did move him, we would need to sign someone else to replace what he brings. His value to us, therefore, exceeds that which we are likely to get back, unless you're prepared to forsake the next 2-3 seasons in the name of getting a high pick. If this means that he retires a Hab, so be it.

[JoeLassister]

All the people who want to trade Markov need to accept that their recommendation would consign us to being a 'bubble team' or worse until - perhaps - Beaulieu is ready or else Diaz takes a huge step up. I just don't grasp why people are anxious to jettison core pieces of a team that finished 4th overall. Yes, yes, move up in the draft, but at what price? This team is unexpectedly close to contending right now and - without sacrificing significant picks or young talent, because the future is still better than the present - should be looking to add elements, not take them away.

EDIT: I agree with Turd on Gorges. He may not be convincing as a top-4 guy (he never did project to be this), but he is surely a strong asset as one of the best #5 d-men in the game. Bring in a bruising bottom-pairing guy who can eat significant minutes, and our D looks pretty good once Emelin returns.

Once again, it depends how you trade Markov.

You don't necessarily unload Markov. You could package him as well (ie: with a 1st pick or a former high pick or good asset (Leblanc/Kristo/even Beaulieu or Diaz)) and get a REALLY decent dman back.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I'd love to move up high enough in the draft so we could have a chance at Max Domi, Bo Horvat or Kerby Rychel....Domi because he is small but tough just like Tie Domi and he can score......Horvat because he's already around 6 feet and 200 pounds and is a very good all around player....and Rychel is quite tough just like Warren Rychel and he can score as well, also Rychel trains with and is good friends with Hab prospect Brady Vail also of the Spitfires

Draft Rychel, enjoy a first round bust.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Once again, it depends how you trade Markov.

You don't necessarily unload Markov. You could package him as well (ie: with a 1st pick or a former high pick or good asset (Leblanc/Kristo/even Beaulieu or Diaz)) and get a REALLY decent dman back.

Anything is possible. But why not keep him and the young guy? Unless you're getting back Shea Weber, I'm not sure I see it.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

We're pretty close to having a three quarterback situation where one is a veteran (Markov), one is in his prime (Subban) and one is just beginning his career (Beaulieu). Why mess with that?

[TurdBurglar]

We're pretty close to having a three quarterback situation where one is a veteran (Markov), one is in his prime (Subban) and one is just beginning his career (Beaulieu). Why mess with that?

You forgot Diaz. Before Diaz got hurt he was acting like a true quarterback. He was setting Markov up like Markov did his entire career to other defenseman. I can easily see Diaz being a PP specialist like Markov. For that alone, he's worth keeping.

[habs rule]

I love Markov, hes an incredibly valuable asset.

When healthy he is one of the best 15 offensive de men in the league and one of the best 20 over all.

That said his value will probably never be higher than this summer and he might not have many years left.

Basically I will be fine either way, if they move him MB must believe his shelf life is limited and his health remains to large a concern.

If they keep him and re up him for another year or two MB must believe the Habs are as close as you say they are either that or the value in return is too low.

I love Markov but facing the harsh reality, 1 more knee operation and he is going to be pretty much done. He was never the fasted guy but now is slower and is getting beat by speed quite a bit. While I hold him in the highest regard, getting a good return for him now may be the smart thing to do.

[Guest Stogey24]

You forgot Diaz. Before Diaz got hurt he was acting like a true quarterback. He was setting Markov up like Markov did his entire career to other defenseman. I can easily see Diaz being a PP specialist like Markov. For that alone, he's worth keeping.

Before Diaz got hurt he was on the first PP unit with markov. That's the reason he did what he did. Diaz in my eyes needs to be traded. I'm really not sure what people see in this guy. After I saw him give that suey pass to Eller, then do it again about three more times in that series; that put the icing on the cake for me. Maybe a more biased point of view coming from me, but weber to me is a more quality player than Diaz.

Sorry, Habs Rules, just felt like tearing into Diaz.