GDT Jan. 2, Habs vs Stars, 8:30 PM

[hab29RETIRED]

So Davey now has 19 points in his last 22 games I believe? 1 in his first 18. That's an amazing turn around.

Also just can't help but mention PK too. If he doesn't make team canada someone should be fired. Absolute monster tonight.

Subban was amazing tonight. But I think he's going to get screwed over, pretty much the same way Yandle and Bobby Ryan did by team USA. The only difference is that Subban is the reigning Norris trophy winner. I can't think of any major tournament like the Canada cups/World cup/olympics where a norris trophy winning dman got left off.

Frankly i also think Yzerman is over-rated as a GM, given it took him until last year to realize he needed to trade for a goalie and i still don't get how he passed over Seth Jones. So if Subban is passed over by the canadian management brain trust, it wouldn't surprise me at all.

As for DD. If there is a market to move him, i'd move him. We have a logjam at centre with Pleks, DD, Eller, Galchenyuk all capable of being top two centres.

If we can move Pleks for an Evander Kane/Bobby Ryan type player, i'm okay with hanging on to DD. But, my preference would be to move DD, or at least move him to the wing.

[hab29RETIRED]

Wow, fun game! Kinda like the old days before overcoaching and super-scientific goaltending ruined everything.

I've been uneasy with Price for a little while now, because he seemed to be sliding around in his crease more - always a sure sign that he's slipping. This game took it up a notch and saw him flailing around, saved on a couple of occasions by fantastic efforts by Gorges. I think when things go wrong, Price tries too hard. Waite needs to settle him down and get back to fundamentals.

What a game by PK. Holy crap! Superstar stuff. I love the theory that he's heard the decision from Yzerman and has the pressure off. I can believe it.

Desharnais and Patches were unreal tonight. Just dominant. Watching DD out there, you can't believe he's the same bozo who stunk it up for the first 20 games. When he plays like this, he is a legit top-6 centreman in the NHL, like it or not. And Gally - such a great player. If I had a hockey-playing son, I would tell him to watch Gallagher and play like that.

This was a game where the core refused to lose.

We didn't miss the Hero of the Quebec Nation for one minute out there, that's for sure.

Subban was amazing. I can't remember being this impressed with a hab's offensive creativity since Guy Lafleur. Richer had a booming shot, but could not dangle like Subban and wasn't even close to being the best winger in the game. Naslund was a great player, but could never be considered among the top 10 in the NHL.

Koivu was filled with promise to finally being a dominant offensive heir to the flying frenchman type of player during his second year until he tore out his knee.

It's been pretty much 20 years of darkness and now we finally have a non-goaltender that can be considered among the best in the world in his position.

It's too bad he will probably get screwed over by Team Canada. Sounds like even if he makes the team, it will be as a #8 dman. My ranking of the Canadian dmen would be as follows:

1) Keith

2) Weber

3) Subban

4) Doughty

5) Peiterangelo

6) Seabrook

7) Vlasic

8) Bowumeester

Most have Vlasic, Boyle. Bouwmeester (I have never been a winner at any level), or Hamius ahead of Subban. I still remember last year that idiots like Ray Ferraro ldidn't have Subban on their list but had Stall, Letang, Girardi and Coburn listed.

[KoRP]

Really, I couldn't care less if our players go to the Olympics in Russia, all I do is worry, lol. I'm sure though, that they all want their chance, and want to succeed in helping win a Gold. If Yzerman can't see what Price and PK bring, then I'll look forward to the Habs being inspired to blow past the Lightning in the standings, and I'll worry less about our players playing in a tournament that isn't the Stanley Cup playoffs.....

Loved the "Barn Burner" vs Dallas....

I won't miss Bourque or Briere one bit, as a matter of fact, I'd trade them both for Ott's expiring contract right now..... Stafford is a good size, 6'2" 214 lbs, and can throw the body when he wants to, maybe he could improve on his -8 and 4 goals if he put on a Hab jersey. Last game we played vs Buf, Stafford set up a nice goal with some great board play, something that Bourque or Briere aren't interested in doing.....

[Guest Stogey24]

Wow, fun game! Kinda like the old days before overcoaching and super-scientific goaltending ruined everything.

I've been uneasy with Price for a little while now, because he seemed to be sliding around in his crease more - always a sure sign that he's slipping. This game took it up a notch and saw him flailing around, saved on a couple of occasions by fantastic efforts by Gorges. I think when things go wrong, Price tries too hard. Waite needs to settle him down and get back to fundamentals.

What a game by PK. Holy crap! Superstar stuff. I love the theory that he's heard the decision from Yzerman and has the pressure off. I can believe it.

Desharnais and Patches were unreal tonight. Just dominant. Watching DD out there, you can't believe he's the same bozo who stunk it up for the first 20 games. When he plays like this, he is a legit top-6 centreman in the NHL, like it or not. And Gally - such a great player. If I had a hockey-playing son, I would tell him to watch Gallagher and play like that.

This was a game where the core refused to lose.

We didn't miss the Hero of the Quebec Nation for one minute out there, that's for sure.

We're better with Briere out of the line up.

I think Eller really showed what he can do last night. Played a very solid game all around(not sure about face off percentage though). After every whistle he was mixing it up in front of the Dallas net. The goal he scored was an absolute laser too.

[Lovett's Magnatones]

Subban was amazing. I can't remember being this impressed with a hab's offensive creativity since Guy Lafleur. Richer had a booming shot, but could not dangle like Subban and wasn't even close to being the best winger in the game. Naslund was a great player, but could never be considered among the top 10 in the NHL.

Koivu was filled with promise to finally being a dominant offensive heir to the flying frenchman type of player during his second year until he tore out his knee.

It's been pretty much 20 years of darkness and now we finally have a non-goaltender that can be considered among the best in the world in his position.

It's too bad he will probably get screwed over by Team Canada. Sounds like even if he makes the team, it will be as a #8 dman. My ranking of the Canadian dmen would be as follows:

1) Keith

2) Weber

3) Subban

4) Doughty

5) Peiterangelo

6) Seabrook

7) Vlasic

8) Bowumeester

Most have Vlasic, Boyle. Bouwmeester (I have never been a winner at any level), or Hamius ahead of Subban. I still remember last year that idiots like Ray Ferraro ldidn't have Subban on their list but had Stall, Letang, Girardi and Coburn listed.

That seems to be SOP for not just Team Canada, but Team USA as well.

How do you pick Blake Wheeler and TJ Oshie over Bobby Ryan? I'm not a proponent of advanced stats, except that they are stats and have value because they are stats, but it seems like they are only looking at intangibles, and over thinking things.

As far as Jay Bouwmeester, I don't see how he can be on anyone's list, he isn't a number one defenseman. If I were picking the team, it would be 6 number 1 defensemen, and 18 first liners. The idea of trying to foment chemistry in a short tournament is stupid. They have 12 days, the chemistry will be there, or it won't, and picking players because they have chemistry in a completely different situation is dumb.

Drew Doughty should be on the team, but he might be the most overrated player in hockey. He plays in a supremely disciplined defensive system with all-world goaltending, as as far as being an offensive lock to make the team, he's a half point per game defenseman who isn't in the top 10 for defensive scoring this year. Seabrook lives off of Keith, and Vlasic is a nobody.

[Guest Stogey24]

That seems to be SOP for not just Team Canada, but Team USA as well.

How do you pick Blake Wheeler and TJ Oshie over Bobby Ryan? I'm not a proponent of advanced stats, except that they are stats and have value because they are stats, but it seems like they are only looking at intangibles, and over thinking things.

As far as Jay Bouwmeester, I don't see how he can be on anyone's list, he isn't a number one defenseman. If I were picking the team, it would be 6 number 1 defensemen, and 18 first liners. The idea of trying to foment chemistry in a short tournament is stupid. They have 12 days, the chemistry will be there, or it won't, and picking players because they have chemistry in a completely different situation is dumb.

Drew Doughty should be on the team, but he might be the most overrated player in hockey. He plays in a supremely disciplined defensive system with all-world goaltending, as as far as being an offensive lock to make the team, he's a half point per game defenseman who isn't in the top 10 for defensive scoring this year. Seabrook lives off of Keith, and Vlasic is a nobody.

I guess Burke was chirpin' Ryan after they didn't pick him. Saying he was a "sleepy skater" and has no intensity.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Lots of good points made in this thread. I agree, for instance, that Yzerman is overrated - the halo from his playing days has transferred over to his GMing, without any particularly good reason. And I couldn't agree more with Lovett that there is a ridiculous amount of overthinking going on among these national team managers, or else it's sheer insider politics (connections, who is pals with whom, etc.). They are talking themselves out of making common-sense decisions. One of which is including THE most explosive defenceman in all of hockey on their roster. I think USA was dumb to leave Byufglin (sp?) and Ryan off their teams as well.

The point about trading Desharnais is an interesting one. He's hot, now's the time to move him. Conversely, his chemistry with Patches is unreal, and looking at them out there last night, I found myself actually believing that a team could win a Cup with a line of Patches-DD-Gallagher in its top-6, provided it could add another powerful winger to complement Pleks/Eller/Galy. It would not surprise me if this is Bergevin's thinking as well.

The question is whether the Desharnais we've seen over the past 20 is the "real" Desharnais. He is a significantly faster player now than when he came up. He MAY actually be the 60+ point guy he was two years ago. I dunno, he's turning into a surprisingly tough player to evaluate offensively (he'll never be very good in his own end, of course). I still don't know what to make of a guy who does nothing for 20 games and then morphs into a PPG player.

[JoeLassister]

Great game. A barn-burner to make up for some of the duds that we've sat through this season with this team. Fully deserved the two points and fought hard for them.

I was going to write a paean to PK before his ridiculous goal, but man, what a player. NO d-man in the league can do what he does with the puck. He was also strong in our zone, and right as he scooped up the puck to send a lob down to Patches for the empty-netter I thought that there isn't another guy on our team who I'd rather have clearing the puck in that situation. Simply our best player by a mile, and when he plays like it we're a dangerous team.

Karlsson does stuff like that EVERY game. He's a real 4th forward for the Sens. Don't rule him out when it comes to d-men handling the puck and rushing the offensive zone.

[Guest Stogey24]

Karlsson does stuff like that EVERY game. He's a real 4th forward for the Sens. Don't rule him out when it comes to d-men handling the puck and rushing the offensive zone.

Ya and Karlsson constantly gets caught pinching. He's a terrible back checker too when he gets caught. Other than Offence he's soft as butter.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Karlsson is a stellar offensive defenceman. He'd make my Olympic team any day.

PK is a more complete package, able to destroy opponents with skull-shattering hits and (usually) very strong down low, as well as bringing a formidable offensive game. I'll stick with my label of "most explosive defenceman in hockey," because it seems to cover all of his attributes nicely. The guy is just a beast. I wish all the know-it-alls would get off his back and just let him play the damned game, so we can all enjoy it.

[JoeLassister]

Ya and Karlsson constantly gets caught pinching. He's a terrible back checker too when he gets caught. Other than Offence he's soft as butter.

Yeah I know. Was just replying to the "no other dman can do what pk does with the puck" comment.

[Meller93]

As for DD. If there is a market to move him, i'd move him. We have a logjam at centre with Pleks, DD, Eller, Galchenyuk all capable of being top two centres.

If we can move Pleks for an Evander Kane/Bobby Ryan type player, i'm okay with hanging on to DD. But, my preference would be to move DD, or at least move him to the wing.

To be honest I'd probably move him to. I'm glad he's slowly proving us wrong, but even if he was doing amazingly we just don't need a small centre man. I'd just be weary of trading him for nothing now. If he gets traded at least he should get sooome kind of return. Which is amazing to say after his first 18 games.

The point about plex-> Kane/Ryan is interesting, but Ottawa doesn't really need a Center and Ryan would take a lot more than plex. As for Kane.. He's actually been great after a pretty slow start. He might be a ppg in his last 10. It would help the offence maybe, and certainly long term future, but losing plex is scary

[Machine of Loving Grace]

The question is whether the Desharnais we've seen over the past 20 is the "real" Desharnais. He is a significantly faster player now than when he came up. He MAY actually be the 60+ point guy he was two years ago. I dunno, he's turning into a surprisingly tough player to evaluate offensively (he'll never be very good in his own end, of course). I still don't know what to make of a guy who does nothing for 20 games and then morphs into a PPG player.

Yes, we're watching the real Desharnais. A talented player who can get on the board but doesn't have enough talent to do it consistently. He's also a player who definitely has a cap and can be shut down easily. He has the ability to be a 40-60 point player but that doesn't mean he's ever going to be the guy a great team can rely on.

I expressed before in the question of size vs. skill that skill is always the most important mark of a player. Desharnais has enough skill to get on the board but not enough to be a consistent threat. His ceiling is a second line center and we use him as a first line center. He's our Bozak (who has seven points in five games, 15 in 18).

[hab29RETIRED]

To be honest I'd probably move him to. I'm glad he's slowly proving us wrong, but even if he was doing amazingly we just don't need a small centre man. I'd just be weary of trading him for nothing now. If he gets traded at least he should get sooome kind of return. Which is amazing to say after his first 18 games.

The point about plex-> Kane/Ryan is interesting, but Ottawa doesn't really need a Center and Ryan would take a lot more than plex. As for Kane.. He's actually been great after a pretty slow start. He might be a ppg in his last 10. It would help the offence maybe, and certainly long term future, but losing plex is scary

I know Bobby Ryan is not available - he's doing great in Ottawa and they gave up a lot for him. I'm just giving examples of the types of player I think we need to add. Currently the only guy we have that regularly crashes the net is Gallagher. IMO Kane should be attainable.

Yes, we're watching the real Desharnais. A talented player who can get on the board but doesn't have enough talent to do it consistently. He's also a player who definitely has a cap and can be shut down easily. He has the ability to be a 40-60 point player but that doesn't mean he's ever going to be the guy a great team can rely on.

I expressed before in the question of size vs. skill that skill is always the most important mark of a player. Desharnais has enough skill to get on the board but not enough to be a consistent threat. His ceiling is a second line center and we use him as a first line center. He's our Bozak (who has seven points in five games, 15 in 18).

If we are going to keep DD, i'd rather move him to the wing, which is something i've been advocating since the first time he was called up during the playoffs.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I know Bobby Ryan is not available - he's doing great in Ottawa and they gave up a lot for him. I'm just giving examples of the types of player I think we need to add. Currently the only guy we have that regularly crashes the net is Gallagher. IMO Kane should be attainable

The thing about Kane is more about Winnipeg. Winnipeg is a franchise that should be better than they are and should look better than what they are but they have a crappy coach and one of the worst starters in the NHL. They are trying to rebuild and clearly need to let go of a young, extremely skilled winger with a long term contract. If they don't trade him for a player of equal value (like a Pacioretty) or a package that makes them better, they are not going to pull the trigger.

We're not getting him for Collberg and a salary dump. The team that gets Kane is going to have to overpay or else Winnipeg will just hold onto him and continue treading water. Are you ready to overpay? Are you ready to offer a young roster player, a decent prospect or two and a first round pick? If you're not, you're not getting him. And even that might not depending on what Winnipeg thinks of our players.

To me, it'd take a package like Eller, Bournival, Dietz and a first to get Kane and even that might be off.

[Neech]

Karlsson does stuff like that EVERY game. He's a real 4th forward for the Sens. Don't rule him out when it comes to d-men handling the puck and rushing the offensive zone.

Karlsson is a great player, and the only guy who I'd put at or maybe even above PK's level in offensive ability. But I feel like they have different styles with the puck, and that what PK does is unique.

[Neech]

To me, it'd take a package like Eller, Bournival, Dietz and a first to get Kane and even that might be off.

Yeah, they'd want for Kane the type of package that we'd want for Galchenyuk, except Kane is a more proven player.

IF we were able to get a decent return for Desharnais and could flip Pacioretty for Kane, wouldn't we have a formidable first line heading into next year, with Chucky at centre?

Kane Galchenyuk Gallagher

Bourque Eller ?

Bournival Pleks ?

Pacioretty is a first-liner, but Kane has higher potential.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

There's no point in flipping Patches for Kane. None at all. It's lateral.

[Neech]

There's no point in flipping Patches for Kane. None at all. It's lateral.

As I mentioned, I feel Kane, with his speed and strength, has a higher potential than Pacioretty.

[hab29RETIRED]

I think the Jets are going to more interested in veteran leadership to bring greater consistency. They have other good young forwards in the pipeline. I think they need a new GM and coach, but their owner is pretty loyal.

I think a package of pleks, gorges, Colberg/pateryn/Hudon and Moen for Kane and bogosian/Byfugien may work.

The slashes are meant to be an or.

The thing about Kane is more about Winnipeg. Winnipeg is a franchise that should be better than they are and should look better than what they are but they have a crappy coach and one of the worst starters in the NHL. They are trying to rebuild and clearly need to let go of a young, extremely skilled winger with a long term contract. If they don't trade him for a player of equal value (like a Pacioretty) or a package that makes them better, they are not going to pull the trigger.

We're not getting him for Collberg and a salary dump. The team that gets Kane is going to have to overpay or else Winnipeg will just hold onto him and continue treading water. Are you ready to overpay? Are you ready to offer a young roster player, a decent prospect or two and a first round pick? If you're not, you're not getting him. And even that might not depending on what Winnipeg thinks of our players.

To me, it'd take a package like Eller, Bournival, Dietz and a first to get Kane and even that might be off.

[hab29RETIRED]

There's no point in flipping Patches for Kane. None at all. It's lateral.

Agreed. Plus MaxPac's contract is much better and IMO you don't trade a maxpac, who WANTS to be here, works hard and looks to be a great team guy when you got him locked up in the 2nd best bargain in the NHL (the first is Subban until the end of this year).

[hab29RETIRED]

Kane May score 30-45 goals on a regular basis. Maxpac is a 30-40 goal guy, has a better contract and acts like a pro. No way would I flip maxpac for Kane. I want to add Kane, but not at the expense of Subban, maxpac, Gally squared, Price or Eller. These guys should be our core to build around - not trading chips. Otherwise we are going to go on a losing merry-go-round, like the Paul holgrem Flyers.

As I mentioned, I feel Kane, with his speed and strength, has a higher potential than Pacioretty.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

I'd consider Kane a definite upgrade from Eller. It would also mean one of the more exchangeable positions (left wing) would be filled by two first line left wingers. With Galchenyuk at center, a top line would be set and it'd be all about finding out who your second line right winger and if you ever find someone better than Plekanec/Desharnais for second line center.

[Neech]

Kane May score 30-45 goals on a regular basis. Maxpac is a 30-40 goal guy, has a better contract and acts like a pro. No way would I flip maxpac for Kane. I want to add Kane, but not at the expense of Subban, maxpac, Gally squared, Price or Eller. These guys should be our core to build around - not trading chips. Otherwise we are going to go on a losing merry-go-round, like the Paul holgrem Flyers.

Kane is one of the few players supposedly available who I'd consider trading MaxPac for - a (potential) upgrade. I agree with the principle of keeping those core guys to build around, but if you can add a better player then you do it.

[Guest Stogey24]

Kane May score 30-45 goals on a regular basis. Maxpac is a 30-40 goal guy, has a better contract and acts like a pro. No way would I flip maxpac for Kane. I want to add Kane, but not at the expense of Subban, maxpac, Gally squared, Price or Eller. These guys should be our core to build around - not trading chips. Otherwise we are going to go on a losing merry-go-round, like the Paul holgrem Flyers.

I was all for trading Pac for Kane, but apparently Kane is a bad locker room guy. Who knows how much truth there is to that. The one thing I do know is that Montreal is a dangerous place for the boys who like to party.