habs rule Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 According to Patrick Caisse, it would be very surprising to not see Bouillon back next year. They are still talking contract as of today apparently. http://fr.canoe.ca/sports/nouvelles/hockey/canadiens/archives/2014/08/20140826-114416.html Actually I think it is called "how low can you go?" What do you think Frankie, league minimum 2 way contract sound ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Actually I think it is called "how low can you go?" What do you think Frankie, league minimum 2 way contract sound ok? It won't be a league minimum deal if it gets done. It'll be closer to $750,000 - $1,000,000. What's left to haggle over is AHL salary and whether or not he'd even report if sent down (he may opt to retire over playing in the minors). Hilarious as it may sound, I imagine Meehan asked for a NMC early in the negotiations to try to protect him from being waived for demotion (and I imagine that was quickly shot down). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 No big deal one way or other. I always liked his play, so am a bit biased Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 We already have 6 solid NHL Dmen and at least 3 kids fighting for the 6th/7th position, we have no need for Bouillon. It's better to save the cap space for another deadline pickup. I just don't see the big deal. He's veteran insurance and his presence will force the kids to earn a spot instead of having it handed to them on a platter regardless of performance. Take it easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 It won't be a league minimum deal if it gets done. It'll be closer to $750,000 - $1,000,000. What's left to haggle over is AHL salary and whether or not he'd even report if sent down (he may opt to retire over playing in the minors). Hilarious as it may sound, I imagine Meehan asked for a NMC early in the negotiations to try to protect him from being waived for demotion (and I imagine that was quickly shot down). well I don't think there are a lot of bidders out there, so he takes what he gets or buggers off. Gotta wean MT off him anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovett's Magnatones Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 I imagine Meehan asked for a NMC early in the negotiations to try to protect him from being waived for demotion (and I imagine that was quickly shot down). Meehan or Mike Therrien? For what it's worth I would rather see Bouillon than Chris Campoli or Yannick Weber in the number 8 spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICEWATER77 Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 hey mb, shake frankies hand and thank him for his service! it's time for the youngsters to be given a shot. if they f-up, they'll learn from it..and by the time markovs legs turn to rubber (again!) they'll be ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 I just don't see the big deal. He's veteran insurance and his presence will force the kids to earn a spot instead of having it handed to them on a platter regardless of performance. Take it easy. You really think Therrien will be able to contain himself from giving Bouillon a regular spot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 There are worse depth defencemen than Bouillon, and he comes with certain intangibles. For instance, his presence on the ice at the end of a powerplay always indicated that we'd squandered the opportunity and that even-strength hockey was right around the corner. Much better than the goalie slapping his stick on the ice IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 We already have 6 solid NHL Dmen and at least 3 kids fighting for the 6th/7th position, we have no need for Bouillon. It's better to save the cap space for another deadline pickup. We don't have 6 "solid" NHL d-men. Subban. Markov, Gilbert, Emelin, and Weaver make 5. You can fantasize all you want about Beaulieu being ready, but until he has successfully taken a regular shift for several weeks of high-end NHL competition we won't know that for sure. And what happens when one of the top 5 get injured? Then you're looking at throwing a Tinordi or Pateryn in there irrespective of their readiness or lack thereof. The idea that you can have "too much" depth of the blueline when you've got a grand total of five NHL-proven guys strikes me as clinically insane. Trizzak's point about Therrien being unable to resist the magnetic allure of Frankie Boo-Boo is, I think, closer to what really drives the fanbase's irrational fear of signing Bouillon. We're terrified Bouillon will crowd out Beaulieu/Tinordi despite being an inferior player. To this, I have two replies. First, when push came to shove in the playoffs The Genius DID install Beaulieu over Honey Boo-Boo. Second, I don't think you can make managerial decisions working from the assumption that the coach is a blithering moron. If Therrien is really going to play Bouillon over superior-performing young players, then he deserves to be fired. That's a different issue from whether we should sign Bouillon. Conversely, if these sainted young players cannot outperform Francis Bouillon, then they don't deserve to be in the lineup. That's where I part company with most of the people on this board: I think young players should earn their ice rather than being magically anointed regardless of performance. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Tinordi was exposed when he played near 20minutes and Beaulieu simply looked lost in last couple games vs Rangers (sort of like Galchenyuk did vs Ottawa the year before). They both are darn close to NHL regular ready, but we all know Bouillon is and wont get rattled (not that he is super, but for sure a capable 3rd pairing guy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 We don't have 6 "solid" NHL d-men. Subban. Markov, Gilbert, Emelin, and Weaver make 5. You can fantasize all you want about Beaulieu being ready, but until he has successfully taken a regular shift for several weeks of high-end NHL competition we won't know that for sure. And what happens when one of the top 5 get injured? Then you're looking at throwing a Tinordi or Pateryn in there irrespective of their readiness or lack thereof. The idea that you can have "too much" depth of the blueline when you've got a grand total of five NHL-proven guys strikes me as clinically insane. Trizzak's point about Therrien being unable to resist the magnetic allure of Frankie Boo-Boo is, I think, closer to what really drives the fanbase's irrational fear of signing Bouillon. We're terrified Bouillon will crowd out Beaulieu/Tinordi despite being an inferior player. To this, I have two replies. First, when push came to shove in the playoffs The Genius DID install Beaulieu over Honey Boo-Boo. Second, I don't think you can make managerial decisions working from the assumption that the coach is a blithering moron. If Therrien is really going to play Bouillon over superior-performing young players, then he deserves to be fired. That's a different issue from whether we should sign Bouillon. Conversely, if these sainted young players cannot outperform Francis Bouillon, then they don't deserve to be in the lineup. That's where I part company with most of the people on this board: I think young players should earn their ice rather than being magically anointed regardless of performance. One problem remains. The only way for us to know if they can outperform Francis Bouillon is TO PLAY THEM over Francis Bouillon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 One problem remains. The only way for us to know if they can outperform Francis Bouillon is TO PLAY THEM over Francis Bouillon. Like I said...we have to trust that the coach will play his best players. A team cannot make managerial decisions based on the contrary assumption. It's strange to find myself defending a coach I never liked, but I don't think The Genius warrants all the hysteria on this front. He ultimately DID play Beaulieu over Bouillon for significant chunks of the playoffs. He has also given Eller, Galchenyuk, and Gallagher plenty of ice over the past two seasons. I don't see a whole huge body of evidence suggesting that he prefers to play inferior players over superior youngsters. I'm guessing that the people who think he does are the same people who deny that youngsters should have to earn their spot. Clearly, MT does not just hand ice time to young players regardless of performance. But nor should he. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 One problem remains. The only way for us to know if they can outperform Francis Bouillon is TO PLAY THEM over Francis Bouillon. And signing Bouillon (or another similar veteran) doesn't prevent that from happening. He wouldn't be signed to play 80 games, he'd be signed to sit in the press box while the rookie(s) play in that #6 spot. But, instead of having another youngster sit in the press box and get spot minutes in practice when someone needs a quick breather, that other youngster gets to play regularly in the minors which is much more beneficial for their development, especially since they all have elements of their games that need improvement or refining. Pateryn, Beaulieu, and Tinordi all see their waiver exemptions expire after the coming season. Come 2015-16, one of them is almost assuredly going to be the #7 by default as management won't want to waive them. The time for a youngster being the #7 will be then. It doesn't need to be now, not when they can still be playing. There's a reason teams don't carry young 7th defencemen/13th forwards on a regular basis and that's it. It's better to have an older guy sit than a younger one. Bouillon's role would probably be to play 25 or so games and most of those would come when someone gets hurt, suspended, needs a day off, etc. His presence should not in any way affect the status of whichever youngster earns the #6 spot. It's not a big deal or a bad thing if he or another veteran get signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neech Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 You really think Therrien will be able to contain himself from giving Bouillon a regular spot? It's like letting an alcoholic keep crates of booze in his basement; I can't believe it's even being considered. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind signing him if there was no cap hit. I like the dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoRP Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I think Frankie is a better option than most RFA's in terms of this team needing a 7th veteran Dman. 2 goals in 9 playoff games, and they were both big goals, last year he chucked knuckles a few times and can still do that too. I never thought he was as bad as people made him out to be, certainly not as bad as Drewiske looked in my opinion, a solid option in the role that Dbalr has described, and he is a consummate pro. Maybe one more pay day with the Habs may mean he is being considered for an "after playing career" position with the club, who knows. I do know, he is not going to hurt us like say a Douglas Murray on the ice, and let a kid earn his spot before we hand it to one not ready to be a full duty NHL player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Yep. I'm not too clear on where the hysteria over Bouillon comes from. He is actually a rather good depth defenceman and - despite all the loathing - came up big at a couple of key times for us in the playoffs. He also brings intangibles, being experienced, francophone, gutsy, loving Montreal, and having played for the CH in bad times and good. As for the idea that Therrien will, like some sort of drunken fool, play him at the expense of superior-performing young talent, I still haven't read a reasoned argument to that effect. Therrien sat Boo-Boo down for Beaulieu in last year's playoffs. He has given massive ice-time to Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Eller, and - yes - PK Subban. He gave Tinordi and Bournival plenty of opportunity to play themselves out of the rotation (which they did. Heck, Bournival had TONS of ice at the start of last season, until he ran out of gas). People continue to confused the idea that Therrien refuses to automatically give ice-time to rookies regardless of performance with the idea that Therrien prefers to play veterans over superior-performing young players. I agree that Therrien does the former. I don't see much evidence that he does the latter. And like I say, if Beaulieu cannot out-perform Francis Bouillon, then he doesn't deserve to be there anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I don't hate Cube the person or even the player really. When I get mad about Cube on the Habs it's anger towards Bergevin and Therrien. Cube clearly loves the Habs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 So sign him to a 1 year 750,000 2 way contract and be done with it. He can sit in the box work out in Hamilton or what ever, you wont find a cheaper more experienced 7th d. There is nothing "bad" about Frankie He is just old and small. Had a really good career for a guy with his skill set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Price (no relation) Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 So sign him to a 1 year 750,000 2 way contract and be done with it. He can sit in the box work out in Hamilton or what ever, you wont find a cheaper more experienced 7th d. There is nothing "bad" about Frankie He is just old and small. Had a really good career for a guy with his skill set. Short, but not small. There's a difference. Frankie Boo is NOT small. He's just short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 The biggest problem with Cube is that he still plays well for a 90s defencemen. He doesn't play well for a defenceman entering the 2013-2014 NHL season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Short, but not small. There's a difference. Frankie Boo is NOT small. He's just short. For a defenceman 5'8 and 198 lbs is small. You say patato i say potato, but under 200 lbs is small for a defenceman. Like I say he HAD a good career based on his skill set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 If he is signed as a low paid depth d-man, what risk is there and I think would impact the young d-prospects more in a positive than negative way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine of Loving Grace Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 If he is signed as a low paid depth d-man, what risk is there and I think would impact the young d-prospects more in a positive than negative way. I don't mean to speak for everyone here, but if all Cube was just a guy to stay in the press box in case there were injuries then I'd be 100% fine with it. The problem is we know Cube and Therrien are close and Therrien has had a tendency in the past two seasons to have a very short leash on young D like Beaulieu and Tinordi who need to make mistakes and need the minutes and then go ahead and unleash Cube regardless of errors. He played all 48 games in 12-13 (plus five playoff games) and 52 in 13-14 (plus nine playoff games!). He shouldn't be ever playing if Tinordi, Pateryn and Beaulieu are all healthy. That's the issue people have. If he was seriously used like Davis Drewskie was supposed to be used I'd have no problem. But one gets the feeling if Beaulieu has a bad game, you won't see Tinordi take his place. You will see Bouillon in the lineup for five straight games before anyone under 25 gets in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DON Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I know coaches lean on and trust some vets and mostly for good reason. I can see why many want Tinordi and Beaulieu to be 3rd pair and Weaver or even Pateryn as 7th. And if injuries forced that to happen, then fine. But, 2 rookies in top 6 seems a recipe for disaster and to be avoided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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